fathom

They've already developed their main excuse, and it's in regards to the number of wins they're going to end up with. The line will read like this: How can you say a team with X amount of wins choked?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 06:26 PM) You can make a great case that Grady Sizemore is the Indians MVP, he's quite possibly the best leadoff hitter in the American League right now and carried the Indians the last 2 months. Don't tell that to jphat, who would rather have Pods than Sizemore for a leadoff hitter.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:51 PM) The guy had a very good April. That's all he's really done IMO. Doesn't mean he should still be batting 3rd in September. I have to say this "where would he play?"

Victor Martinez is just as responsible for the Indians charge as is Hafner. ARod or Ortiz will be the MVP.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:43 PM) And Ozzie continues to bat Carl 3rd for some reason. Mind-boggling. The worst #3 hitter out of all the playoff contenders. And he's in a massive slump also. Even when he's hitting decent, he was still a below average 3 hitter.

QUOTE(UC76 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:34 PM) If McCarthy continues to pitch well you can't take him out of the rotation. It's called riding the hot hand. Hopefully, Ozzie sees this. Oh, and hopefully McCarthy pitches well. McCarthy didn't help the Sox get to where they are now, so he won't be in the playoffs. Ozzie loves his veterans, and he definitely doesn't seem to be McCarthy's biggest fan. If McCarthy gives up 4 or more runs tonight, he won't start for the Sox again this season.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:32 PM) Hence the reason Pods is in there while 75 or 80% tops. It is completely obvious that he can't run, but he is still getting on base, which makes him better than any other options we have. He's getting on base, but he's negating a lot of the OBP by continuing to make outs on the bases. Since his defense is poor and he's not going to drive in runs for you, he's no better than a minimal offensive contributor. It's too bad that we haven't had a minor leaguer contribute when they come into the major leagues in a long time.

Here's the thing: fans aren't booing Ozzie just cause they're losing. If you remember correctly, they were booing him for taking out Jenks for Marte in the 9th inning, while we were on a 6 game winning streak and had nearly a 10 game lead. This was 2 weeks ago, and even though we won that game (no thanks to Ozzie), there's been a lot of hate from Ozzie from all over (and not just on soxtalk). For someone who's supposed to be so energetic and a great leader, he sure seems more concerned with how he's viewed than how his team is. Ozzie...I don't care how many wins this team has, if they blow a 15 game lead, no one will ever say it was a good season.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:15 PM) "Juice"is so much easier to figure out than 'Pronk'. I'm all for specualating that guys have been on roids, but Hafner's the same size he was last year, this season. Also, he's putting up damn good numbers. I wish some of the Sox players could be speculated about being on "juice" this season

QUOTE(bigredrudy @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:10 PM) Ozzie seems almost fearful that McCarthy will pitch well because then he would not know what to do. What if McCarthy pitches well this evening and then his turn comes up next Tuesday. And then he does pitch well on Tuesday against Detroit and then he pitches well on the seasons final day. How could he not include McCarthy in the post season rotation if all that occurs. If McCarthy gives up more than 2 runs this evening I see Ozzie going back to Hernandez on Tuesday. Then his problem would be solved. Ozzie has said McCarthy won't start in the playoffs. I definitely think if McCarthy does poorly tonight, Ozzie will say "I told you so", and then pitch Mr. Duque and his 1-8 record in last 9 decisions.

If Ozzie has the stones, he might really resign if this team fails to make the playoffs. He's going to be under such criticism, he might just cry himself to sleep on his pillow one night, and wake up and say screw it all. What the Sox do need right now is a manager to stir the ship (hopefully not the Titantic). Quotes by Ozzie like "we stink" or "can we just forfeit vs Santana" show his inexperience.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 04:20 PM) He'll be a free agent in time, maybe after nest year I think. There are rumors they could trade him to Houston too. Maybe if the White Sox organization weren't so petty and actually were run professionally we could have looked into resigning him in two years. But instead, the Sox do what they like to do, rip someone on the way out. Fantastic post

I've never wanted the White Sox to win the world series more than I do this very moment.

QUOTE(JoshPR @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 06:28 AM) What he's trying to say is, that the batter sould earn his way on, by geing the basehit than the pitcher just giving him the base by walking him And if that's what he actually said, it would have been clear what he meant. However, he definitely said that he had no problem if Perralta lined a ball off the fence for a double.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 06:07 AM) I will admit, right now, I did not see the game. But from what I can tell, Garland was pretty much done after 7. Sending him out in the 8th is just not the right decision. Same story, just another night. You can sub out the players name for another starter, and we have the same situation every game.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:58 AM) I hear you, but the Sox were in every game until the 8th tonight when our brain dead caribbean manager allowed JG to pitch to the hottest hitter in the lineup. Which says to me that the pitching bent but did not break. Face it Fathom, the tribe is red hot at the plate and you're not going to shut them down. You have to find a way to score some runs and stay up with them. I actually thought our pitching was fair to good, considering the opponent. How I wish the Count could've pitched one game... Indians are just a phenomenal team right now, as they're clicking on all cylinders. Right now, the Sox have a very inconsistent offense, inconsistent starting pitching, shaky relief pitching, terrible base running, poor execution, and a consistently poor manager. SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE??

Don't forget that our so-called aces all allowed at least 4 runs, and our bullpen was very mediocre during the series.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:10 AM) What would be fun to do is have a underachieved list too. Rowand has hit incredibly worse this past year than he did last year(like 160 points or so below his OPS from last year), Uribe is not at an .830 OPS, but rather a .730, Marte's control has been horrible all year, El Duque has been anything but unhittable the past 2 months, and perhaps even Carl is in the underachieved category. What would be interesting to see is how people view Podsednik. Did he underachieve or overachieve this year? Or was he about right? You could make cases for nearly every Sox player that they've underachieved. I'm definitely of the opinion that Pods has performed at the low end of expectations for him. If you would have told me that he would have hit .290 this year, I would have never thought that I would be saying how overrated he is.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:00 AM) I'll take the whole list minus Garland and Contreras. Depending on your definition of overachieving. If you're talking about doing better than we thought they'd do, then your list is correct. If you're talking about doing better than they should have done this year...then you have to leave Garland and Contreras off, because they have done this year EXACTLY what those guys should be doing based on their talent. Cotts is close in there too. Overachieving compared to previous results and what was expected. Even if Garland and Contreras had the stuff, they've still had years much better than we would have expected.

My fellow Sox fans: which players on the White Sox this season do you believe have overachieved? Shockingly, it's basically a lot of our pitchers that could be considered on this list. Based off of something JimH and Dick Allen said earlier, there's really none of the Sox hitters which have overachieved this season. Here's my overachiever list: - Garland - Contreras - Politte - Cotts - Hermanson

Is it me, or do the Sox give up a lot of insurance runs in the 8th inning compared to the amount of insurance runs they get in close games?

The one promising thing is that I don't think we'll have to worry about the Yanks or Red Sox laying down for each other in the last 3 games, no matter how close they are in the standings.

Garcia is a high paid veteran, and he should be doing whatever he needs to be to be in tip-top shape for the day he pitches. I hope this isn't his "excuse" for his 2nd half slide.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:50 AM) Is that fathom because you simply want to avoid the Sox being the team to blow the biggest division lead in history? If we somehow limp into the playoffs I still want us to win in the playoffs. I want us to find that pitching magic and have fred, mark and jon dominate and lead us to our world series (I know, the odds of me winning the lottery are probly better). Of course I want the Sox to win the whole f***ing thing. However, judging by the way they've been playing in contrast to other playoff teams, I don't think it's a very likely option. We're like those Stanford and St. Joe's college basketball teams in the past. Those teams had the best record all season, yet by the end of the regular season, it was obvious that they had been passed by other teams in comparision to how they were playing on the field/court. The worst case scenario is missing out on the playoffs. Getting embarrassed and swept in the playoffs is 1000 times better.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:44 AM) We traded away our number 3 hitter last year. Every offseason we pick up some junk and hope it works out for us. The lightening in a bottle theory. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. If we don't make the playoffs, and let PK go via free agency, I'm willing to bet that you'll read stuff in the press along the lines of "we're looking forward to adding more speed and gap hitting to the roster".