Kalapse

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) Id rather have Jose Lopez Since I think they'll end up being similar players offensively, I'll take the shortstop with above average defensive ability.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) Given that one-year NTCs are pretty much standard for veteran pitchers to avoid such scenarios, I doubt it. He'd have no kind of trade protection for the rest of the 2007 season. Any NTC he receives in an extension would kick in at the beginning of '08.

I'm so sick of seeing Andy Gonzalez in CF. He's now 2-20 w/ HR over his last 5 games since that fluky 4-5 performance in the first game of the D-Rays series.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) What's a good program for downloading movies? You know, the not quite so legal kind. Yeah, lets not be doing that on this oh so public of forums.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 12:19 PM) Here's what I don't get: If Buehrle is dealt, we're still going to need a starter for 2008, because no one down on the farm is ready for the majors...that is, unless the Sox are going into total re-build mode and not looking to compete for a championship. In which case we can all watch the lkes of Floyd/Gio/Russell take their lumps and the Sox look more and more like one century wonders. Gavin Floyd is about as ready for the majors now as he'll ever be (3.07 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, .249 BAA, 74:25 K:BB, INT League All-Star), I have no problem with Floyd taking a rotation spot when one of Buehrle or Contreras is dealt. And just as a side note, at this point in time I don't even consider Adam Russell a legitimate prospect. A 4.48 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, .275 BAA and a 68:39 K:BB in his second go round in AAA as a 24 year old while making a pitcher's park his home? Terrible.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Ok, you do that then pal. I can't imagine why it is you want to give the man $56 million if he's not even as solid as Oliver Perez or John Maine then. Since when is John Maine a chump though? The guy was very good last year (3.60 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 15 GS), has been one of the best pitchers in the game this year (2.74 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 84 K, 102 IP, 150 ERA+) and is only 26 years old. Just yesterday he went 8 in Philly allowing 4 H, 1 ER, 6 K and 0 BB. Maine has been better than Buehrle for the last 30 or so starts the two have had.. Olly Perez has been beyond terrible over the past 2 seasons but has seemingly turned it around in New York (3.14 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 85 K, 94.7 IP, 131 ERA+), I wouldn't bank on him as an intricate part of my rotation during a pennant chase but it appears Minaya is content with sticking with his 25 year old who has shown great success in the majors before.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) I think he would take the same extension Mark would hypothetically get. If you lock those two up, and keep Javy, deal Jose, you're looking at a rotation of Buehrle/Garland/Vazquez/Danks/Floyd, which would come in around $40 million. It isn't ridiculous to think it could happen. Once they feel Gio is ready, then you possibly move Javy. Buehrle + Garland + Vazquez + Konerko = $52M w/ a payroll cap of about $95M. That leaves you about $43M (assuming they go with a $95M payroll, could be less with attendance dropping) to fill 21 other roster spots. Good luck with all that.

A 33 year old consistently injured outfielder who should probably be on the DL right now and is putting up a line of .230/.286/.422/.704 for the season and he's making snide remarks toward the organization for not negotiating a long term contract with him? Wow.

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) Heres a movie Im waiting for with Christian Bale in it. Rescue Dawn He's going to win an Oscar for this role. Since the first time I saw Patrick Bateman in action Christian has been my favorite actor.

Buehrle would have been guaranteed about $30M more than Contreras with no way of ridding yourself of Mark's contract if something does happen to him unlike with Jose.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) Borchard is doing a decent job with Florida. And you are saying that Sweeney isn't even good enough to be a 4th outfielder? What about Rowand. He was once a sox prospect. Oh, and Thornton isn't a competent reliever? get real. Yeah, Borchard is kicking ass in Florida. .196/.294/.323/.617

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:25 PM) The rule is based on 10 years of service time. One year of service time is 172 days per the CBA. He did not accrue one year of service time in 2000, as he arrived in July. His first year of service time was 2001. Therefore the 10/5 no trade would kick in April 2011. That means the White Sox would be granting a full no trade for 3 years of this rumored extension. That would make me right. It would also make sense since Andruw Jones got 10/5 rights following the 2006 season even though he was up in 1996. He spent 10 full years with the club starting in 1997.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) Buehrle will reach 7 years of service time just after the All-Star break. He came up July 17th (i believe) of 2000, and has been here ever since. The 10/5 rights would kick in on July 17th (i think) of 2010, the third year of the contract. Yep, that makes sense.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:58 PM) He's been up since 2000 without being sent down, so I would think it kicks in at 2010 the latest. Eh, I think you're right about that.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:52 PM) That's my point. Buehrle becomes a 10 and 5 in 2009 anyways, so instead of having a 1 year NTC like Count and Garland got, he wants a 2 and after that you wouldn't be able to trade him anyways. So in other words, the Sox don't want 10 and 5 guys no matter how cheap they will sign because they want to be able to trade anybody and save money errr......get young prospects. Wouldn't it be 2011? Before the 2007 season started he had just over 6 years of service time. 2007: 6 2008: 7 2009: 8 2010: 9 2011: 10 (10/5 kicks in) That would mean he needs 3 years of no trade protection.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) How so? Unless you mean it is more than the NTC situation. Garland and Contreras were given No Trade protection for the first year of the new contract ONLY. That's pretty standard, it takes away any possibility of a sign and trade. Javy was only given no trade protection to a few teams on the west coast since he absolutely never wants to pitch out there again, so the Sox still have over 20 teams they could trade him to if they really wanted. Buehrle is looking for a complete no trade clause that covers the full life of the contract, meaning for the 4-5 years he's signed for the Sox would not be able to trade him anywhere without his consent. The Sox haven't given out full no trade protection to any player that I know of. When you're investing around $60M into a pitcher you want to keep your options open in the long term which is why it makes sense that they wouldn't give him a NTC.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:37 PM) You will give a NTC to Count and Javy, but not someone who we drafted, brought up, groomed, and was important in 2005. Seriously now people, it's not the same thing AT ALL.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) Me too....but we also have to get rid of Contreras as well. Well, that's a given.

After sleeping on it, I'm really not all that upset at all. As long as KW can get a nice haul in a deal for Buehrle I'll be fine with it.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:32 AM) I find it really hard to believe that the Sox refused to give Buehrle a NTC when they gaave Vazquez, Contreras, and Garland one for some time. It's not the same thing. Buehrle is asking for a full no trade for the length of the deal. Garland's was for last year (the first year of his new contract), Contreras' was for this year (the first year of his new contract) and Vazquez' was for a couple west coast teams. Now add on the fact that Buehrle will be getting $20M+ more total than any of those deals and the fact that this team could go into rebuilding at anytime and it becomes even more believable.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) Alright, I'm over my disappointment now. You are right. The Sox simply need to clean house and trade every valuable pitcher they have (really, the only assets the organization has). In particular, Garland, Vazquez, and Jenks need to get moved as they will bring the biggest return. Yeah, pretty much.

QUOTE(chisox2334 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:50 AM) I dont believe its over no trade clause no matter how many sources report it. Until you hear, Kenny, Buerhle, or agent say that then I dont believe it. I think its money and years. I think reinsdorf okay go four years but still wasnt enough convince buerhle. Thats why Hahn went back chicago. It was already rejected after he left Tampa. If vasquez was able get one and contreas I highly doubt the guy who was brought up by kenny wouldnt be able get no trade clause. Im not buying it. There's a difference here, however. Contreras was only given no trade protection for the first year of the deal ('07) which isn't all that uncommon and Vazquez was given no trade protection to a couple west coast teams, there's still 20 something other teams he can be traded to without his permission. Buehrle was likely looking for a complete no trade clause meaning he couldn't be traded to any team, at anytime over the life of the deal without his consent. There's a big difference between the 3 and I understand why the Sox wouldn't want to do that, they were going to flip him after the season, it's the only thing that makes any sense. If I'm not mistaken, Buehrle would become a 10/5 guy in the final year of a 4 year deal meaning Buehrle was looking for a no trade for the first 3 years of the contract. And if the Sox aren't willing to do that then it's pretty obvious they would have traded him within the next 2 years.

KW better come away from this thing with Kershaw from LA or Gomez/Martinez from NY as the center points of any deals. At times i just hate the way this organization is run. Even then I'll still be pissed and I'm probably one of the most forgiving Sox fans out there when it came to this situation, I was willing to let him go without being upset. The one way the could f*** it up in my eyes was with the NTC and what do you know.

What a joke. 4 years $56M is a god damn steal and they f*** it all up by not giving him the NTC, give me a f***ing break. I wouldn't even have been all that upset if it came out that the sticking point was the 5th year or Buehrle was looking for $70M+ but a NTC? How pathetic. Well, the White Sox Organization will pay dearly for this one.

If we're talking my lifetime, I'll take Griffey.