Kalapse

Halladay has been incredibly mediocre. I was surprised to see Granderson didn't make it. Curtis > Torii.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 09:15 PM) I think Kalapse made a post a couple days ago or so that was something like this... I'm reading this thread from the last post through the first so pardon me if I missed anything important at the beginning. Here is that post you speak of: QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) A few thoughts: 1.) Bobby Jenks probably has the most trade value of any player currently on the 25 man roster. The last closer I can think of who was traded at the deadline was Ugueth Urbina in 2003. He was 29, a 3 month rental and struggling mightily. The Rangers were able to coax the #31 prospect in baseball (Adrian Gonzalez) away from the Marlins at the beginning of July in exchange for Ugy. Now what if you put a 26 year old, hard throwing closer who is currently pitching well and still a year away from arbitration on the block? What do you fetch in return then? 2.) The Sox could hold the balance of power in both leagues with Buehrle and Jenks on the block. A team looking for a closer who's locked up for another 4 years and a top flight SP who is possibly a rental could sell the farm in a blockbuster deal to acquire both and make a push. You could end up playing 10 teams off each other for Jenks. 3.) Bobby seems to have an excellent reputation around baseball, considered by most to be a very good and reliable closer despite the fact that he has yet to pitch more than half a season (continually) of consistently good baseball. 4.) The guy is still like 50 pounds overweight, has been losing velocity since July of last season and has an arm that's being held together by a couple screws. I honestly don't think he'll make it to free agency before suffering a catastrophic injury or just becoming completely ineffective. 5.) If the Sox are going to truly rebuild, as in trade off most of the older, more expensive players for young unproven talent then chances are they're not going to be even close to competing over the next 2-4 years. Meaning a closer of Jenks' caliber really isn't needed and becomes a luxury at that point. And considering the kind of talent Detroit, Cleveland and even Minnesota are going to have on their major league rosters in the coming seasons I'm not sure an all out rebuilding phase would be all that bad of an idea.

They should just shut him down for the rest of the season so he's at 100% come Opening Day of 2008 since you just know they'll be bringing him back for another go of it again next year.

Not only is he one of the best relievers in the game, he's one of the best personalities as well. The Legend lives on.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) Royce Ring has 6.1 innings pitched this year. Why is he even on this list? He's inherited 3 runners this year and 2 have scored. That's not good.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) Id rather have Jose Lopez Since I think they'll end up being similar players offensively, I'll take the shortstop with above average defensive ability.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) Given that one-year NTCs are pretty much standard for veteran pitchers to avoid such scenarios, I doubt it. He'd have no kind of trade protection for the rest of the 2007 season. Any NTC he receives in an extension would kick in at the beginning of '08.

I'm so sick of seeing Andy Gonzalez in CF. He's now 2-20 w/ HR over his last 5 games since that fluky 4-5 performance in the first game of the D-Rays series.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) What's a good program for downloading movies? You know, the not quite so legal kind. Yeah, lets not be doing that on this oh so public of forums.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 12:19 PM) Here's what I don't get: If Buehrle is dealt, we're still going to need a starter for 2008, because no one down on the farm is ready for the majors...that is, unless the Sox are going into total re-build mode and not looking to compete for a championship. In which case we can all watch the lkes of Floyd/Gio/Russell take their lumps and the Sox look more and more like one century wonders. Gavin Floyd is about as ready for the majors now as he'll ever be (3.07 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, .249 BAA, 74:25 K:BB, INT League All-Star), I have no problem with Floyd taking a rotation spot when one of Buehrle or Contreras is dealt. And just as a side note, at this point in time I don't even consider Adam Russell a legitimate prospect. A 4.48 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, .275 BAA and a 68:39 K:BB in his second go round in AAA as a 24 year old while making a pitcher's park his home? Terrible.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Ok, you do that then pal. I can't imagine why it is you want to give the man $56 million if he's not even as solid as Oliver Perez or John Maine then. Since when is John Maine a chump though? The guy was very good last year (3.60 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 15 GS), has been one of the best pitchers in the game this year (2.74 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 84 K, 102 IP, 150 ERA+) and is only 26 years old. Just yesterday he went 8 in Philly allowing 4 H, 1 ER, 6 K and 0 BB. Maine has been better than Buehrle for the last 30 or so starts the two have had.. Olly Perez has been beyond terrible over the past 2 seasons but has seemingly turned it around in New York (3.14 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 85 K, 94.7 IP, 131 ERA+), I wouldn't bank on him as an intricate part of my rotation during a pennant chase but it appears Minaya is content with sticking with his 25 year old who has shown great success in the majors before.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) I think he would take the same extension Mark would hypothetically get. If you lock those two up, and keep Javy, deal Jose, you're looking at a rotation of Buehrle/Garland/Vazquez/Danks/Floyd, which would come in around $40 million. It isn't ridiculous to think it could happen. Once they feel Gio is ready, then you possibly move Javy. Buehrle + Garland + Vazquez + Konerko = $52M w/ a payroll cap of about $95M. That leaves you about $43M (assuming they go with a $95M payroll, could be less with attendance dropping) to fill 21 other roster spots. Good luck with all that.

A 33 year old consistently injured outfielder who should probably be on the DL right now and is putting up a line of .230/.286/.422/.704 for the season and he's making snide remarks toward the organization for not negotiating a long term contract with him? Wow.

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) Heres a movie Im waiting for with Christian Bale in it. Rescue Dawn He's going to win an Oscar for this role. Since the first time I saw Patrick Bateman in action Christian has been my favorite actor.

Buehrle would have been guaranteed about $30M more than Contreras with no way of ridding yourself of Mark's contract if something does happen to him unlike with Jose.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) Borchard is doing a decent job with Florida. And you are saying that Sweeney isn't even good enough to be a 4th outfielder? What about Rowand. He was once a sox prospect. Oh, and Thornton isn't a competent reliever? get real. Yeah, Borchard is kicking ass in Florida. .196/.294/.323/.617

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:25 PM) The rule is based on 10 years of service time. One year of service time is 172 days per the CBA. He did not accrue one year of service time in 2000, as he arrived in July. His first year of service time was 2001. Therefore the 10/5 no trade would kick in April 2011. That means the White Sox would be granting a full no trade for 3 years of this rumored extension. That would make me right. It would also make sense since Andruw Jones got 10/5 rights following the 2006 season even though he was up in 1996. He spent 10 full years with the club starting in 1997.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) Buehrle will reach 7 years of service time just after the All-Star break. He came up July 17th (i believe) of 2000, and has been here ever since. The 10/5 rights would kick in on July 17th (i think) of 2010, the third year of the contract. Yep, that makes sense.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:58 PM) He's been up since 2000 without being sent down, so I would think it kicks in at 2010 the latest. Eh, I think you're right about that.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:52 PM) That's my point. Buehrle becomes a 10 and 5 in 2009 anyways, so instead of having a 1 year NTC like Count and Garland got, he wants a 2 and after that you wouldn't be able to trade him anyways. So in other words, the Sox don't want 10 and 5 guys no matter how cheap they will sign because they want to be able to trade anybody and save money errr......get young prospects. Wouldn't it be 2011? Before the 2007 season started he had just over 6 years of service time. 2007: 6 2008: 7 2009: 8 2010: 9 2011: 10 (10/5 kicks in) That would mean he needs 3 years of no trade protection.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) How so? Unless you mean it is more than the NTC situation. Garland and Contreras were given No Trade protection for the first year of the new contract ONLY. That's pretty standard, it takes away any possibility of a sign and trade. Javy was only given no trade protection to a few teams on the west coast since he absolutely never wants to pitch out there again, so the Sox still have over 20 teams they could trade him to if they really wanted. Buehrle is looking for a complete no trade clause that covers the full life of the contract, meaning for the 4-5 years he's signed for the Sox would not be able to trade him anywhere without his consent. The Sox haven't given out full no trade protection to any player that I know of. When you're investing around $60M into a pitcher you want to keep your options open in the long term which is why it makes sense that they wouldn't give him a NTC.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:37 PM) You will give a NTC to Count and Javy, but not someone who we drafted, brought up, groomed, and was important in 2005. Seriously now people, it's not the same thing AT ALL.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) Me too....but we also have to get rid of Contreras as well. Well, that's a given.

After sleeping on it, I'm really not all that upset at all. As long as KW can get a nice haul in a deal for Buehrle I'll be fine with it.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:32 AM) I find it really hard to believe that the Sox refused to give Buehrle a NTC when they gaave Vazquez, Contreras, and Garland one for some time. It's not the same thing. Buehrle is asking for a full no trade for the length of the deal. Garland's was for last year (the first year of his new contract), Contreras' was for this year (the first year of his new contract) and Vazquez' was for a couple west coast teams. Now add on the fact that Buehrle will be getting $20M+ more total than any of those deals and the fact that this team could go into rebuilding at anytime and it becomes even more believable.