CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Seems like a very decent guy. Good luck Dan with all future endeavors .

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 15, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) No doubt. It's a two way street for signing and trading players but trust me the Sox F.O. is in aggressive mode these days. And lets face it they just can't trade bad players for good players. It's a daunting task. Let's hope agressive has some positive results.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 15, 2013 -> 09:07 AM) I like Jaso as well. He would be my 1st option at catcher. Ryan Hanigan would be my #2 option. Very similar to Jaso, just bats RH Except Hanigan hits RH and Jaso hits LH and Hanigan is a very good defensive catcher in both throwing out runners and pitch framing while Jaso is pretty bad defensively but other than that, yeah, very similiar.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 08:53 PM) Would you trade somebody like Hector for Jaso? Rienzo

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 08:33 PM) Versteeg back on the Hawks. Jimmy Hayes and Dylan Olsen traded for him. Hawks also get LW Philippe Lefebvre and Florida eats half of Versteeg's salary.

Versteeg back on the Hawks. RW Jimmy Hayes and D Dylan Olsen traded for him.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 05:49 PM) According to a Tweet in Italian, Alex Liddi has signed with the White Sox. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=liddi-001ale We signed another free agent

Let's just face it , this isn't exactly the Golden Age for catchers. Just have to take a chance on a Dionner Navarro or a Conger if you can get him. Catcher is a problem for many teams both offensively and defensively. About the only thing the Sox can do is roll the dice and sign a LH catcher or switching hitting one. Just going to have to "make due " there and upgrade other positions where talent is more available and money spent is more of a sure thing.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 12:01 PM) Why are we assuming that the Sox are counting Abreu's signing bonus as part of the 2014 payroll ceiling? That's what I asked in another thread when people were counting that and draft pick money and int'l signing money toward payroll. It never got answered and it needs to be answered.

Manto hired as Orioles minor league hitting coordinator.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Nov 5, 2013 -> 04:42 PM) It makes me think KW is running the team. Of course he's interested IF the Sox pay him more than the $14.1 M QO which would be pretty silly.

Could be entirely possible the Sox sign 2 catchers with the idea of giving Phegley more time at AAA and non tendering Flowers .

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) I look at it as paying for future services up front, basically like pre-paying for a loan. If you know you are going to have the funds today, you may as well spend them on something that will help you in the future. I really do feel like Hahn is going to do really good and big things with this team. Are we 100% sure that $10M bonus and the $15M allotted to draft picks and In'tl. players is included in the Sox player payroll ? Did somone add up what the players salaries were last year and add the draft pick money and in'tl. money spend on Zapata and others to come up with the $118 M the Sox supposedly spent on payroll last year ?

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 01:08 PM) Does free agency start at midnight? Or is it an arbitrary start time like 6AM ET, or whatever? Midnight eastern time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 07:12 AM) 4 years, $36 million is really not that big of a contract. I understand what you're saying. It just seems like so much because we all make so little comparatively. It seems like any 2 WAR gets a lot of players $10M/yr after arbitration years pass.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 3, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) There are numerous ways the Sox can go about this rebuilding and that's a big point in their favor. I think we'll find out which way they are going by what they do with Quintana and/or Santiago. By the way , I didn't vote because none of those choices reflects an accurate way to describe what I think will be done. I don't even think Hahn knows how things will or will not fall into place. I know he'd prefer to get more guys like Avi Garcia 1st and foremost and he isn't completely ruling out free agency. His first major trade will dictate subsequent moves.

I'm not sure you can just say one of those or another. I know I talk about signing Ellsbury a lot but I'd like to see what Hahn can do in trades 1st or with improvements through the mid-tier free agents. How much he can make some interesting trades can determine if it's worth it to go after bigger names.

I think the Sox should do some TV ads right away about Abreu . Show footage of his WBC highlights while showing his stat lines from the WBC and Cuban League. Ask him to do some batting practice at the Cell before it gets too cold and film it and the last part of the commercials showing him at the Cell in full uniform interspersed with clips of the scoreboard exploding and thousands of fans cheering . End it with a catch phrase like white letters on a black background saying " THE FUTURE IS NOW ." This commercial ending only is good if we can add some more quality pieces. Fans need to move on from the Konerko era. Get some quotes from Konerko and The Big Hurt endorsing Abreu as part of the commercial too

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 05:40 PM) Here's why I'm advocating for Ellsbury. We could give him 7yr/$140M and McCann 5yr/$80M because our payroll is so low right now. Then Dunn comes off the books and McCann can become the DH eventually. Ellsbury is an all around player who did just steal 50 bags and I can't expect his speed to disappear completely next year. I'm paying him that money for the next 2-4 years of him being a top flight player. His defense, ability to get on base, and power that he does have makes him incredibly valuable. Same for McCann. I don't expect him to be a top flight C for his entire tenure in Chicago if he were here, but to get 2-3 years out of him then DH him? Sign me up. Ellsbury and McCann, combined with Abreu, completely changes the complexion of the lineup. Ellsbury vastly improves the defense. Add in a full season of Avi and you may have the workings of a good offense to compliment the pitching staff. You could be in contention next year. Edit: Also, for reference: AJ was 28 when we signed him and Dye was 30. I like your thinking even though we both know getting one of those guys is a longshot and both is insane. I hate the idea of Abreu on an island in the Sox lineup. He just got off an island and thrust himself into another one in the middle of the order. Let's get some good players around the guy quickly before he gets discouraged.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 04:02 PM) ok, if he's a switch hitter you've got a point, my bad for missing that. But the point stands, if we're signing a guy like that it really is being done with the idea that Rick Hahn thinks Josh Phegley is a starting catcher at the major league level and will show significant growth this year. I got screwed up because Navarro's numbers were so good against lefties last year, 1.123 OPS when his career number against lefties is .778. It's also worth noting that career against righties....which is how he'd get the majority of his work if Phegley was the starter... .650 career OPS. So yeah, he can switch hit, but his weakest side is the side he'd get most of his work. Navarro will turn 30 in Feb. He's a hard guy to figure out because he looked great in 2008 with the Rays (Caulfield should love that )when he was pretty much a full time catcher and hit very good against RH's. Didn't show much power then so I don't know what got into him last year unless it was just Wrigley Field. But since the Cell is also a hitters park maybe that bodes well if his warning track power suddenly played well in a hitters park. Maybe he just started pulling everything . I haven't bothered to look at his spray chart on his HR's.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 03:59 PM) And, if I'm Mike Illitch/Dombrowski, I'm looking for an upgrade over Avila at catcher (a bit touchy with his father in the front office, but he's been subpar two seasons in a row after looking like a future star in 2011)....2B (Cano?)...and then a power-hitting corner outfielder/LF/DH type who can help replace Victor Martinez's bat. So the Tigers, yet another team in the catching sweepstakes that could outbit nearly everyone if they chose to do so. The A's might be looking as well. Buck and Suzuki are two other names to watch. Toronto is also looking for a C.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 03:41 PM) For the White Sox...going with one of those guys would make sense if they were confident in Phegley or Flowers and wanted a more veteran backup alongside. In that case, Navarro might not fit well since he's a righty. Just keep in mind, neither of those guys has 400 PA's since Navarro in 2009. They're backups. .684 career OPS for Navarro, .651 for Pena. Navarro had solid numbers last year....in 260 PA's as a heavily platooned player against LH starters. I can see how one of those guys can have a role just fine...but it's a backup role next to a starting Josh Phegley who gets 450-500 PA's. Are you confident Phegley can be a solid starting catcher and contribute with the bat like a starter? Is Hahn? I don't know, but that's the situation where adding one of those guys makes sense. In terms of AJ...fine...if we're expecting him to get 200 PA's. The problem is...if AJ gets his usual 500+ PA's and Phegley or Flowers gets consigned to backup duty...we're not doing anything to set ourselves up long term. If you're pessimistic, maybe one of the guys we currently have has a 5% chance of breaking out next year...but AJ would have a 0% chance of being a contributor to the White Sox long term. he'd only be a fit if we signed Ellsbury and had other upgrades on top of that - where they want a starting catcher next year that they can count on to help compete next year. Navarro is a switch hitter Balta you got your stats backwards on him. He got the majority of his AB's against against righties, and hit .279 with 7 HR's in 195 AB's . Against lefties as a RH hitter he had 61 AB's hit 6 HR's and had .361 BA. I think splitting time would be just fine , not sure Phegley should get that many AB's but it's splitting hairs. I'm not expecting any of those guys to be long term solutions thats why I never really wanted to think about AJ before. I'd rather get the 31 or 32 yr old guys and pray Phegly can get it together at the ML level.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 11:35 AM) Wasn't that because Ross was a personal catcher for one of their starters? He had a pretty miserable post-season, but unless the Red Sox can sign McCann...they're going to want to hold onto him. What other players out there would be a clear upgrade? Then you have the Rangers, the Yankees, the Braves, White Sox, there are quite a few teams out there looking for catching all circling around the same 2-3 guys. You made a post earlier about the Red Sox adding mid level free agents. Let the rest of the teams who need a catcher circle the wagons around MaCann and Salty . I still think guys like Brayan Pena and Dioner Navarro can both provide the Sox a decent starting option at catcher and yes even AJ . Pena and Navarro both switch hit and had pretty decent years in limited roles . Both of those guy are midt-tier free agents . Navarro also has pretty good power for all those who remember him hitting 3 HR's off us with the Cubs last year. I think they represent a clear upgrade because , frankly, who doesn't ? Flower's might be non-tendered.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 12:21 PM) Exactly. That's when you roll the dice. A lot of us are advocating Ellsbury because we want the Sox to compete ASAP and we also know theres financial room for him .Beyond that we also know there's a 90% chance it won't happen because he should defintely get more than the 5yr/100M me and scs87 wish he'd get. We want to get as good as possible as fast as possible while we still have our good core of starting pitching. This is where we have our fundamental difference. You think we were so bad that its going to take a while to compete again wheras we see a lot of close loses thats can be turned into wins with defensive , hitting and baserunning improvement and Ellsbury provide s all 3 of those things . That's why guys like Ellsbury and Manny Machado and a handful of other are so valuable. There just aren't that many players in baseball who are good offensively and defensively. Then throw in his baserunning . It's very difficult to develop minor league pieces that might be ready right when our starting pitching starts disintegrating. You also said when we get close then add that one big free agent piece but going after that piece and getting it are 2 very different things. But I've enjoyed the discussion on both sides and am glad a poll or thread about Ellsbury didn't have to be made in order for everyone to get their 2 cents worth in about it.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) This is a team that lost 55 games by 2 runs or less(36 by 1 run, most in the majors), yes, the record looks bad on paper but it's not like they were consistently getting blown out. If you make 3 offensive upgrades there's no reason they shouldn't be at least closer to competing in 2014. How many of those 1-2 run games they lost were caused by errors? You upgrade CF defensively with Ellsbury and that helps a lot. How many of those 1-2 run games were caused by having a middle of the order bat that had a .310 slugging% vs RHP(what we mainly faced)? You hope you upgraded that with Abreu over PK. How many of those 1-2 run games were caused by having a Catcher platoon that hit in the .200s with an OBP around .220 and defensively wasn't very good to boot? An upgrade there helps the team a lot as well. We are on the exact same page .I've commented many times about those close games and and upgrades at 4-5 positions will help more than you might think, at least in theory ,if our starting pitching can put up basically the same numbers as last year. I'm hoping Abreu and Garcia for a full season is 1 upgrade and maybe 2 though Garcia might not have the same kind of impact as Rios did , but it's possible. Hoping Gillaspie improves or you see if you can get Lawrie . Brayan Pena or Dionnerer Navarro catching( switch hitters ) and Ellsbury is a huge upgrade. I know he's more of a dream with Boras as his agent but each year has to get major upgrades or competing in the next 2 years seems a lot further away.