CaliSoxFanViaSWside

The whole starting pitching staff are projects.

Exactly and I just got done saying the exact same thing. There's absolutely no reason to put him in the pen. Best case scenario for him and the Sox is to make him as valuable of a pitcher as possible. Where the Sox are at right now is finding value not wins or losses or finding BP pieces. He's not a FA till 2026 so he's still got 2 years to make good as a Starting Pitcher.

I think they don't sign any of them but if they do it'll be the last one unsigned among the three. Why not throw Giolito in the mix too?

Also assuming they get no other SP candidates. I'll just say Feddes because he pitched 180 innings last year.

I don't think that will be the rotation at all. I know it's your preferred starters but it appears they will have enough arms for the opening day 5 starters to be replaced due to struggles or injury. I see no reason to put Kopech in the pen. It's the Sox job to try to get some value from him as a starter before he reaches FA. Peak value would be as a successful starter. That may never happen but they still have try to extract upside especially now that Bannister will have major input. He may not be the same guy who was a top prospect anymore but there's still a chance ,albeit a small one, that he can harness the stuff he now possessesand become a mid or back of a rotation arm. All the starting pitchers who aren't rookies in 2024 are in short term impress me types roles. Any one of Sorotka, Feddes, Toussaint, Scholtens and Kopech who can give quality innings without massive ERAs will get chances to provide tradable value. Guys like Schuster and Nastrini are the AAA backups. They have to prove they are worthy of being called up and be future parts of the rotation. No sense wasting their options and years of control right away. There has to be a plan in place to find value right now not your future starting pitchers.

I know it was a long post but the point was that Baltimore isn't going to move their OF prospects when they probably want to move Mullins, Hays and Santander as they get too expensive for them to keep like TB does. If the Sox truly want to compete asap they can't just go for prospects. They do need MLB talent . We just don't know if the whole retool stuff is BS and if Getz is going to be seeking only prospects. We saw how our own trading for prospects worked out in the last rebuild. Injuries and inconsistency while waiting for them to reach their potential didnt work out. I don't know how many times I saw Eloy will hit .300 and bash 40 HR's , Moncada will be awesome and Vaughn is a generational bat. This board went gaga over a lot of prospects who wet the bed. This is like deja vu all over again.

The downside of course is that in waiting Robert could revert back to the often injured player we saw before 2023. Look at Buxton. He hasnt had over 400 PA's since he was 23 in 2017 and won a GG and finished 18th in MVP voting. Right now we have no clue how Getz is going to approach the compete as quickly as possible Reinsdorf strategy. Was that Reinsdorf being stupid , lying or just not wanting to put a rebuild label on what was going to happen. Even now Getz still prefers to call it a retool. It's always possible that Baltimore would prefer to move Mullins, Santander and Hays. Mullins and Hays are FA in 2026, Santander in 2025 but those were his 3 starting OFers in 2023 while he has Holliday, Cowser and Kjerstad to replace them when each are deemed ready. They can do that 1 OF at a time with Santander being the closest to FA. I truly believe that is Baltimore's plan I have no idea what Reinsdorf expects Getz to do or how truly low the payroll will be this year. It's actually looking like as low as it can possibly be although it's quite early in the off season We think it's a rebuild so we want a bunch of prospects but if Getz treats it like a retool you can get legit OF talent and perhaps a few high end prospects from Baltimore to add to the Sox lineup and you might end up with a decent lineup. There's always the pitching which is still going to be a problem when talking about competing but maybe Getz has a 3 year plan back to competing in the weak AL Central and any MLB player he acquires can be traded. There's a lot to be said for getting MLB talent that still has controllable years left rather than the 3 ring circus that is thrusting prospects into the White Sox system when development isn't their strong suit. Also as we have already witnessed when the prospects get injured or are inconsistent in their brief appearances in the Majors there's always the wait wait wait like with Eloy, Vaughn, Moncada , Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Rodon, Madrigal , Collins,and whoever else we were counting on to be productive MLB players who would lead us to a World Series. We all think this is going to take another 5 or more years but JR always wants to dangle that carrot of let's get as good as possible as fast as we can as long as we compete in the Central and piecemeal another 2005 team together and keep your fingers crossed. Would Baltimore do a mega deal for Cease and Robert if the Sox took 2 of Mullins , Hays and Santander and multiple prospects or is the 4 years of Robert going to be too rich for them? Selling high on Robert wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. If the Sox or the fans keep expecting a Kings ransom of prospects the Sox are particularly good at screwing up prospect development and getting one career year from a player before they tank. Robert could be next in line . Talking about just how good he is going to be or longing over prospects sounds way too familiar from this board.

You could always make a prediction based on what your gut is telling u.?

I stand corrected. I'm not as good on my phone pulling info ( small screen old eyes).I saw the DOB and didn't see the DOD listed under it which is why I almost exclusively use my computer when fact checking.

From what I just gleened from Baseball Ref it looks like both Claudell and Garr are both still living. Both weren't bad for the Sox from my memory which might rival yours for accuracy but Washington did have a lot talent but his effort was always questioned. Garr had his best years with the Braves ( career .306 BA with maybe a batting title in there) and Washington with the A's.

Ralph Garr was the Road Runner.

I'm glad you brought up Hackenberg. When discussing the catching I was tempted to bring him into the conversation but since no one else did I figured no one took him to be a consequential option especially those pining for the top Dodger's catching prospect in a Cease trade. I've made it known that I'm not a big fan of getting more catching or DH 1st baseman type prospects who offer no baserunning or defenseful value. Prospect rankings mean very little if you are viewed as nothing but a bat and organizations do their best to hide defensive inefficiency with buzz words and phrases like " much improved." It's why scouting is so important and not just cursory looks but scouts out on the road constantly in their territory attending as many games as possible getting multiple looks and submitting reports on as many players as possible and then updating those reports on a regular basis.

I think Elias realizes their path to remain in contention for a long time lies in the prospects coming into the lineup as the other guys become too expensive for them, much in the same Tampa Bay has done it. Sooner or later, if they want to go that route , Mullins, Santander and others have to be traded for their pitching needs or a combination of the too expensive to keep with a prospect in order to get a pitcher who could step in to the top of the rotation. If the Sox were willing to take ,let's say Santander, it would be easier to make a deal with the O's. If Getz treats the Cease trade as an opportunity to " multiply" the talent and compete asap not just necessarily get only prospects there is some wiggle room for a trade with them. As fans we are only looking at prospects because we view it as a rebuild . But don't be too shocked if Getz retools with someone with less than full prospect status as long as he multiplies the depth of talent. Maybe he ends up getting 8 or 9 controllable years of 1 MLB starting position player and 1 high end pitching prospect rather than perhaps 18-24 years of control of 2 decent prospects and 1 or 2 lesser prospects.

It was nice to see Jake Burger stop by the CHGO White Sox podcast as a surprise drop in guest at the broadcast from the meetings today ! He was all class.

I don't THINK so either. It's a decent way to built controllable depth with a substantial amount of upside if it can be tapped. But I can also see it happening because well, nothing is happening atm.

The rest of it was great too !

Beggers can't be choosers. Postive fWAr wasn't exactly in abundance among Sox position players last year.

To which I would answer , " Have you seen the OFers in our farm system or our possible Opening Day RFer ? " That's an upgrade.

Good analogy. He needs to hit the right ? while others are waving more targets at him. Only 1 shot to get it right.

I didn't even mention if he has any injury . Then the floor gets lower. He just doesn't have the track record yet to know exactly what he is. He's still on the high side of value but that can change frightfully quick. The Sox had a whole team of guys like that. Cease and Robert are the only ones left.

I don't count switch hitters . Has to be purely LH.

Far be it for me to laugh at anyone . Not my style unless you berate me in any way 1st. Then we have a problem. You talk baseball I talk baseball back. I don't have tunnel vision about LH guys it's just with the Sox it seems they forget that there are LH players in baseball. The game has built in advantages for LHers and their history of having good LH position players is the worst in MLB history as far as actuality like , hitting a baseball. They've had their share of switch hitters but trust me on the lefty thing. The worst which kind of coincided with being the worst long standing franchise in baseball history when the Yankees were being the best with their ball park extremely conducive to taking advantage of LH power hitters.

Because it's his latest season, losing velocity is more common than gaining it back and you can always get worse. So you would have to be damn sure 2023 is his floor and he stays off the floor for 2 years.

Didn't Lance come from The Cardinals ?

I'm not valuing Kelenic higher but he's been through the grinder and showed some progress. I haven't bothered to check into Grissom except to know he's RH. I think any team should always show a preference for LH players especially the Sox who it seems hardly ever have good LH position players. Worst in baseball history. Can anyone actually name a Sox LH minor league OFer who became a regular ( non platoon) OFer with the Sox. How far do we have to go back ? Baines ?