CaliSoxFanViaSWside

If your idea of a good case is to use only some things I said and lie about other things I said you better stick to checkers and because lying , being smarmy and only using half truths is pretty pitiful. I said Leury, Goodwin and Lamb and I also said Engel before he was injured. SO since you are so fond of wRC+ lets look at all 4 players in that stat against RHP. Vaughn 35 Leury 83 Lamb 123 Engel 155 Goodwin 216 You lose. Maybe even checkers is too complex for you. Obviously with the injury to Engel and Leury being the main CF now Vaughn will get plenty of time in the OF against RHP and I'm cool with that but not cool with you distorting everything I say. Plus even though you admitted I was right about your lie that I said Vaughn should be sent down but you doubled down by saying it was my idea to use Leury only when clearly I used more than Leury as an example . And even though you posted a bald face lie about what I said and you admitted I was right you didn't take that lie out of your post. How low can you go ? Maybe the limbo is your thing, not checkers and not chess of any kind.

Except I never said send him down . Duh. Pay attention.

I would be against that. Why send him down when you need his bat against LHP ? Again it's a winning now thing. Sending him down doesn't help winning now even though it's against a much smaller percentage of pitchers or even if it just adds another 1 or 2 wins with him in the lineup or pinch hitting against LHP I'll take his contribution happily and his contributions against RHP too since we all know he's going to get his chances there too.

Thanks for the support but apparently judging by the ever popular emoji's there are a lot more people who believe Vaughn's development is far more important than winning now. Our minor difference of opinion between sending him down or keep playing him against LHP is also based on winning now because I don't want the lineup to just "manage" against LHP . Every win is important to winning now even against LHP. The difference between getting home field advantage could be just 1 game in the standings and I don't like taking our best hitter against LHP out of the lineup or getting the chance to pinch hit in big situations against LHP.

Our team is on the IL.

Ok so ignore the putrid hitting stats all you want and lack of defense or speed. Fine by me. Hope you are happy when Vaughn becomes a great player at 1st base and the Sox don't win any World Series during the supposed decade long window. Our differences cannot be settled now.

Long term yes I'd never argue against that. Also with the current state of the OF you have to keep Vaughn in the OF but I'm also not going to want to decrease Goodwin, Leury and Lambs playing time either when home field advantage is so important to the present . Plenty of room now in the OF and DH for all to get significant AB' against RHP.

I can agree with this with Engel injured now.

Yea Goodwin would be fine in LF or RF . He's not Engel out there but he also isn't Vaughn or Lamb bad since he is much faster than those 2.

At this point I'd call it lack of options . The Sox have got decent contributions from their depth. They are beyond depth concerns now and frankly have been.

They need both. With Power. Starling Marte, Escobar, Schwarber 2 of those 3 and relief pitching. The list keeps growing which means the chances of Reindorf covering all areas is dwindling.

Still amazed when there's Home Field advantage and a possible World Series on the line to see someone say Vaughn is as bad as it gets but still play him against RHP as if Vaughn is more important than that.

Nah it's no. Sox didn't have Goodwin early in the season and didn't yet consider Lamb in the OF , so I'll stick to Goodwin and Lamb getting AB's over Vaughn against RHP

Now we have better options in Goodwin and Lamb. Early in the season there were just as many DFA posts about him as there were against Williams. What did Williams get, 10 AB's, before they DFA'd him ? Luckily that didn't happen with Lamb and later the Sox picked up Goodwin.

I know all that but so what ? Don't you understand that each victory THIS SEASON could be the key to ending up with the best record in baseball or in the AL ? That means home field advantage in the playoffs and a possible win in the World Series. Now isn't the time to play him every day . He'll remain on the team . He'll get plenty of AB's against RHP still because he has all season even though he's a total liability when playing against them offensively and defensively. He'll get plenty of AB's against RH next year too. He isn't going anywhere. Treat him just like you would any other guy who sucks at the moment. Mercedes, Leury, Hamilton, Mendick whoever . Give Engel, Goodwin, and Lamb their shots now because Andrew Vaughn's development is secondary to winning and right now they do not stroll in the park hand in hand if your goal is the World Series. It's amazing to me when people say Lamb is a liability in the OF to say he doesn't deserve more playing time when there is more evidence piling up every day that Vaughn is also a liability in the OF and when you aren't hitting you had better play some great defense or you are pretty useless. That describes Vaughn now playing left field against RHP. Engel Goodwin and Lamb have combined for 9 HR's in the small amount of AB's they have had so far, not all against RHP but 7 of them have . I'll take my chance with that and the much better defense from Engel and Goodwin in LF.

I meant everyone on Soxtalk not just you. I never see anyone say OK I changed my mind you convinced me with your super longs posts about any particular subject. Early in the year I suggested Nick Williams be given a chance in like a couple of starts over Vaughn. Didn't even suggest he play a lot but just given a chance. I was lambasted in every way possible. Where are all those people now when Vaughn has a wRC+ of 38 against RHP ? Even now people still want Vaughn to play every day. And every time I bring it up all I get is "not this again" ! and laugh emoji's as if I have no right to bring up how so many wanted to humiliate me for having the gall to suggest Vaughn might not be all that against RHP so early in the season when Vaughn fever was at an All-time high. Now there is no legitimate argument to play Vaughn against RHP and many more posters here have come to realize that but people still want to be petty about it. It takes a big man to say what you said when the internet emboldens people to be dicks as much as they want to be. I want to win the World Series and I want the best players possible to play as much as possible against RHP and LHP. Vaughn might be the best player on the Sox against LHP but against RHP for now he's among the worst.

Why not us ? Not the Sox (Reinsdorfs) MO. We'll be lucky to add an extra $10M for the rest of the year on any pieces we trade for combined. That's another reason why Hahn said they will wait and assess. It's wise to do that but also the longer you wait the cheaper the player becomes. Paying the prorated rate of a players salary for 2 months is less than the prorated rate for 3 months.

I think it's really hard to compare spin rate for previous years. MLB has messed with the baseball also in other years . If the seams are higher pitchers can get a better grip. If the seams are lower they start using more sticky stuff. Also if the ball is slightly lighter or heavier or the core is changed that affects pitchers too. Pitcher's return from injuries , change mechanics ,move from starter to reliever . One size does not fit all. The picture is to big to paint with a broad brush. Let's face it baseball always wants more offense and the latest crackdown on sticky substances and ball changes plus all the studies on moving the mound back are all designed for the benefit of the offense. Supposedly they made the ball lighter this year because of the inordinate number of HR's last year so that combined with the sticky stuff has led to offenses being down this year. It's just hard to pinpoint when and how prevalent the sticky stuff became a big thing. Did it really gain momentum last year throughout the league when everyone was smashing the ball or were the new and improve substances mostly unavailable until last year ? Some have been around a while but perhaps closely guarded secrets . Things like that don't stay secrets long and once guys started ratting it was already at epidemic proportions. So somewhere between the secret getting out and the manufacturing of the substances in abundance the ball got changed and then it became the next steroids type performance enhancing issue which the league wants to put down as fast as they can.

Not really. He's ok. It's still a long way from the TDL . I'm sure the D'backs will get other offers for him . They will wait to see who offers what.

Yea I don't want Soria or any D'backs relievers. Aim higher.

Sorry I meant LHP. I was looking up so many stats for so many players and jumping back and forth between 2 different stats websites and my post against both RHP and LHP trying not to making a mistake. I obviously didn't accomplish that. I will go over the post again and fix it. Done. Thanks for pointing it out. And trust me I agree with almost everything you said about Vaughn except for sending him down. He's just too good against LHP to send him down. I want every advantage the Sox can get against LHP too because the Sox lost a big contributor against RHP in Mercedes because he is totally unreliable now. Vaughn bat against LHP will help pick up some of that slack DHing or playing the OF vs. LHP. I took a lot of heat early in the season for saying what you are saying now. He'll also continue to get AB's against RHP on the small chance he can show some vast improvement in sporadic AB's against them. That might not be what we want but it's still going to happen.

They need help against LHP too. I wrote it all up in the Escobar thread showing the Sox leaders in Slugging percentage against both.

It's really hard to factor Hamilton into any of this. The OP wants to play Vaughn full time in LF that's the only one I have a problem with. He makes a decent point on hoping Vaughn can turn it around against RHP but he's had his chance. They need lineup improvement right now against both RHP and LHP Leury's also had a lot of playing time and Hamilton got his share too but his role if he actually has one when everyone is healthy is an a PR and defensive replacement. The 2 guys in the outfield that need the AB's the most right now are Engel and Goodwin. Engel has exhibited the needed power in his short time back but where most don't trust him is against RHP. For the first time in his life last year he hit RHP well. We have to find out if that was a one time thing due to BABIP which I'm pretty sure the OP thinks it is since I had that discussion with him at the beginning of the season. I don't think anybody has a problem with him against LHP which has always been his strong side. Maybe he found something last year he didn't have previously. If he has, he could be in the starting OF in RF or LF considering he's one of the best fielders in baseball. It's hardly worth mentioning since Engel and Goodwin have very few AB's since returning but so far both have done well. Burger hit's RHP very well but it's hard to count on him to play 2nd base because they are only in the last few days starting that experiment with him and that's the only spot theoretically open for him right now and there won't be a spot for him if the Sox get Escobar. Plus he's been out a long time and it's asking a lot of him to step in and continue to mash MLB RHP pitching like he has MiLB RHP.

I am both shocked and dismayed. I think it's the 1st time in the history of my many years on Soxtalk that someone has actually said this to me. For that you get an emoji of love !

I'm just trying to be realistic. The guys you mentioned like Castellanos, Starling Marte I assume and Santander all are difficult to attain , each one for various reasons. The most realistic would be Starling Marte. Reds arent giving up on their season yet and a guy like Castellanos is probably cost prohibitive and not a good OF, Starling Marte is a great player and a rental but still will cost more than Escobar. Santander would be costly and how likely are the Orioles to give him up ? The Sox might be able to win at the needed clip until Eloy and Robert get back but I'd like to make sure of that and make the lineup even stronger going into the playoffs with them and Escobar without decimating the few good pieces we have on the farm. I also like the insurance Escobar provides for Moncada. None of the OF'er who you brought up can do that . I'd definitely check in on Starling Marte. I want to win at a clip that will give us home field advantage through the playoffs . Being at home would be a big advantage.