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Might as well face it. The Sox plan is to suck again next year. They might have plans to sign Machado but they won't. Maybe they can come up with something unique like give him a piece of the team. Signing a big fish or even smaller fish in order to improve slightly is detrimental to another high draft choice.

It might be, but it won't be unique because the Sox sign him.

You'll see he won't be signing with a team years away or on the way down. He'll sign with a contender because all offers will be similar . He can lay his head on that pile of money much more comfortably on a winning team.

I guess I must be the only one who sees a lot of similarities between Avi and JD Martinez. I quoted you because at least you seem to realize he has upside. JD Martinez and Avi both hit very well in the minors. Martinez 3 disappointing partial seasons in Houston where he had an OPB of .300. Both big guys, both use all fields both right handed. I can understand people wanting him gone. After all he's been a disappointment. Does Avi have the talent to hit .300 with 30+ ? Of course he does, I know he'll be 28 next year. I have no delusions about him nor any about the stiffs behind him or according to most here, those likely to be kept ahead of him . There's no upside to McCutcheon . https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/05/31/martinez-slipped-through-astros-fingers-just-was-blossoming/d5XHKgbwHUNEBvXtQgxtBO/story.html

I can see it now. Manny Machado signs with White Sox , gets head examined after saying I really miss all those losing years I had in Baltimore and I'd like to relive them.

Well at least they are young . 3 pitchers , 5 If we count Spencer Adams and Covey. Less if any of them are drafted in the rule 5 or released. One thing we know for sure Shields isn't young so no upside. If next year is going to be a total disaster might as well start with Covey in the rotation and give then all a shot to show us anything. That's what you want right ?

You don't know that for sure about what anyone was willing to trade. It's all conjecture on your part unless you have knowledge the rest of don't which you are willing to share. I explained what Hahn could have been thinking in my post. If you want to keep repeating yourself on that front we will just have to disagree and leave it at that. What I'm really getting from you is you want Eloy to be surrounded by a bunch of stiffs thus lessening his chances to fulfill his potential and hoping for a top 5 pick again not for this coming draft but maybe the one after that also. You don't want any veterans signed . You don't believe the Sox will sign a big name FA. You want to wait for our pitching prospects already here to prove themselves. You want to wait for the hitters and pitchers in the minors to come up. You want the Sox to prove they haven't made as many mistakes in the draft as it looks like they have at the moment. You want an extremely cheap payroll and hope Palka and Delmonico can play OF when they are really just a AAAA player and a DH at the expense of the highest upside hitter we have in Avi. If I got any of this wrong I'm sure you will tell me. And if the Sox do happen to sign Machado or Harper after that we scramble to change everything you now think.

And you and others are being pretty respectful when you say it when it really needs to be screamed to anyone defending the choices.

All these are correct . Anything else is wishful thinking. Only other one I saw that makes sense was non tender him and let him see what he can get and if it's a minor league deal then the Sox can offer him more . If it's higher ,say $3M ,then offer him $2-3M with incentives to make $5M more. This might be the only reason to non tender him. More than likely you still pay him less than $8M even if he hit's .315 with 30HR's but then you have a guy worth something with 2 of 3 good years and 1 injury riddled year.

It's never that simple. He hit .330. 3 freaking 30 . We all slough it off like it was nothing. Oh he'll go right back to where he was . He got lucky. Does anyone think Delmonico will ever hit .330 ? Cordell, Tilson ? When you talk about upside we have to see some evidence of it. Who do the Sox have that destroyed minor league pitching or has the upside of a JD Martinez. Avi and pretty much Avi alone. Maybe Hahn wouldn't settle for what was offered. Maybe Hahn thought if he can just put together back to back years like that they will really have something or we can really trade him for something. I don't care how lucky you are, it takes tremendous talent to hit .330. Did Avi suck in 2018 ? Yup he sure did but he was injured, often. But when you look at his AB's he definitely showed more power than he ever has in fewer AB's. Is it possible he puts together a few years with both high average and good power ? If the answer to that is yes then it's obvious you keep him. Will he ever be as good as we all hope ? Probably not. But there's not a lot holding the Sox back from finding out. , Cordell , Tilson Delmonico? Please ,they all are almost as old as Avi and wish they had his talent. With some bad drafts the Sox cannot afford to non tender the highest upside talent they have for a measly $8M especially when they aren't paying anybody. I am making this strong statement not because I believe in him 100% but because it's just baseball logic to me. Anyone who thinks or purely just desires him to be non tendered just hasn't thought it through . I am not afraid of being called out later if he is non tendered, There's a chance he is but maybe a higher chance Hahn settles for whatever is offered this time or they give him yet another chance. I know what I would do. I'd talk to JD Martinez and see what his winter plans are and hope he has a few weeks to spare and send Avi over to talk about hitting with him.

I'm more interested if any punishment is given , how likely is it that some teams signees become UFA thus benefiting teams that were clean. And will the clean teams be allotted more money to sign any players in some sort of draft.

And since he wasn't added at catcher Yermin Mercedes needs a shot at a higher level and if he's not a catcher he should try 1st base.

Gerritt Cole 1st round pick, 28th pick Justin Verlander 1st round ,2nd pick Blake Snell 1st round, 52nd pick Chris Sale 1st round ,11th pick Max Scherzer 1st round ,11th pick Jacob DeGrom 9th round pick Aaron Nola 1st round, 7th pick Clayton Kershaw 1 round ,7th pick from HS Luis Severino IFA Yankees 2011 17 yrs old. Corey Kluber 4th round pick Carlos Carrasco undrafted FA signed by Phillies in 2003 Stephen Strasburg 1st round 1st pick Zack Greinke 1st round 6th pick Rick Porcello 1st round , 27th pick Jon Lester 2nd round pick Kyle Hendricks 8th round Madison Bumgarner 1st round , 10th pick These are the guys who were top vote getters for Cy Young in 2016 and 2017 and probably will be for 2018 As you can see only Strasburg and Verlander were top 5 picks . The majority were 1st rounders . Draw your own conclusions. Looks like 1st round pick 6-11 are good places to take a pitcher .

Yep Byron Buxton was a pretty clear choice for 1 -1 that year.

So basically we agree since you answered slightly before I edited my post to exclude pitchers .

Who do you see internally improving besides maybe Anderson and Moncada. I don't usually like to judge players but we have too many guys who are who we thought they were even if Davidson has improved little by little he is still not very useful if he can't play 3rd or 1st close to full time. Most have had a fair shake time to let most of them go one way or another. I'm talking position players . I think Gio and Lopez and Rodon all need more time even if Rodon is clearly nearing the end of his Sox time . One good season from him and he's trade bait.

That game was so so entertaining despite the outcome. 44 game winning streak when Toews and Kane score ends. Shades of Hawks Stanley Cup teams scoring not once but 2 times with an empty net. 4 minute PP Hawks looked terrible. Not gonna blame Ward except on the GWG . Nice to see Kahun get 2 assists and Hayden get a goal. Murph won't be back probably until Xmas . Forsling hopefully soon . Any D men available ?

They don't have any depth. Toews and Kane can't carry them. Still not a playoff team when they start getting some injuries. I love the Hawks have since I was kid listening on a transistor radio to the Hull Brothers, Pit Martin, Eric Nesterenko, Crow may be progressing but there's still a possibility he never comes back or is never the same if he does. Jokiharju looks legit. Would like Kahun to get some more minutes. PP needs to get going. Still, getting 4 points on the road is a nice start.

You can't be serious . The Astro's draft AIken. Agree to sign him pending the physical . Then find something they don't like and reduce their offer and Aiken refused it, How can that all be planned ?

I will also concede that the Sox acquired a lot of talent through trades. Even though the average number of home grown talent of the playoffs teams last year was 9 the Sox may not need that many if Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Jimenez , Kopech, Cease, Dunning , Basabe , and Rutherford can all be contributors on a competitive team. But you can see that 5 of those names are pitchers and they are more prone to long term injuries than position players which is why Fan Graphs penalizes them.

The Cubs plan all along was to get position players to stabilize the lineup/roster for a long time and then add pitchers through trades and free agency. Houston pretty much took the same path . Some of it was luck like i mentioned before in the Aiken situation while the Sox drafted guys like Fulmer Collins, Burger Burdi and Rodon although Rodon was not drafted with the rebuild in mind. The Sox were one of the most pitching heavy teams in last 5 years in the top 5 rounds in the draft prior to 2018 ranking 5th in all of MLB. So definitely a different philosophy prior to 2018. Also 21 of 24 in the top 5 rounds/past 5 years prior to 2018 were college players. Houston has had some amazing luck or skill ,(who knows) with Altuve , picking Correa under slot over Buxton and using the saved money to entice McCullers to sign with them. Also with the AIken/Bregman picks. We need some of that luck/skill too because if there are too many holes to fill spending the money won't do us much good.

Well we know Schwarber made a significant contribution to the Cubs World Series win so that's plenty good if you hit in that situation. Almora is a very solid fielder and also not bad with the bat. I'd take him in a heartbeat right now in CF. Sox need some draftees and Robert to step up because at this time they all seem 3 years away except for a few like Jimenez , Zavala and Cease and what we get from that trio is unknown right now.

I know that makes a difference, The Astro's had 3 1-1's. They screwed it up one year by taking Aiken so ended up with the 2 and 5 pick the next year and took Bregman and Kyle Tucker. But if you look at the Cubs picks from the years I mentioned you can see they are quite similar to the position the Sox drafted in the last few years or some one like Springer was taken 11th in round one so also not a top 5. Altuve was signed for $15,000.

No one mentioned the cartoons from the 1960's like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, Frosty the Snowman or How the Grinch Stole Christmas All classics in my mind. Someone did mention a Charlie Brown Christmas . That is also a cartoon classic from the 60's. I suppose technically these are not movies but they are wonderful examples of the best things to watch at Xmas. Even kids of today can appreciate them. Hard to beleive most of those are already 50 years old.