CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:52 PM) Except in that situation, the A's offered the most annual salary. That's what made it a big surprise. We don't have that luxury here. Again not my point. Oakland signed him because they were willing to do what other teams were not willing to do. His agents were looking for a 10 yr deal or a shorter deal that granted him free agncy as soon as possible. Oakland landed him because they were willing to do what no other team was willing to do. I have been arguing that if the Sox are willing to make him a starting pitcher and give him 400+ AB's in a season, if that's what Otani wants to do, then that will surely limit the teams willing to go after him and since the Sox are rebuilding they can offer him that kind of opportunity.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:38 PM) Cespedes is a completely different situation as he had none of the restrictions that young international players have now. How easily we miss the point. I know that situation was different . The point was no one expected Oakland to sign him just as no one expects the Sox to sign Otani.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:34 PM) 3 years? Absolutely. Any deal is going to have to follow closely to the historicals of what players get paid around baseball in years 1-6 based on their performance. No players are going to get paid more than $5 million for their first three years of major league service. Again, it is all about the comps. Players make half a million or SLIGHTLY above it their first year. They might get a bit more than that their second year, but even the top players are going to make about a million dollars their second year. Mike Trout made $510k his second full year, and $1 million for his 3rd. That is about $2 million total for one of the best first three years in MLB history. Tim Anderson who signed a super early extension to get some money up front is getting $850k for his first full year, $1 mil for his second year, and $1.4 for his third. That is slightly over $3 million for his first three full years. A 3/40 deal in his first year would be thrown out quick. You'd need a deal of AT LEAST six years to be able to argue for a $40 million contract. Oh well then we just disagree. The league is not in the habit of voiding MLB deals and probably would want to avoid it at all costs. When you throw in what a successful Otani would mean to a franchise that team could easily argue a contract I mentioned is not out of line with his value . The league would not just say we are voiding that contract without due process . The only reason a guy like Trout didn't get big money sooner is because it's rather stupid for teams togive big money to players that early because they hold all the cards for 6 years . Again the Otani situation is unique and arguing over what kind of contract extension gets voided or not seem trite at this point in time. We'll see how it unfolds down the road. There's a long way to go before any team even reaches that point.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) Otani to Sox talk seems extremely moot. To you it's moot and I will agree it's unlikely the Sox get him but why not the Sox? It is certainly worth debating the pros and cons of this very unique situation where the money makes no difference and all teams have a shot. Sure maybe not all teams in Otani's mind but hell all you have to do is see Cespedes signed with Oakland of all teams to understand stranger things have happened.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) It's not "giving up." It's realizing they likely aren't going to get him. The White Sox aren't even scouting him. Just because you read the Sox aren't scouting him doesn't mean its true. I'm sure they have loads of current video on him .and are well aware of the unique position any team is in to get him without paying him a great deal. It would be negligence not to throw their hat in the ring. It is more likely the Sox make some effort than no effort at all. No front office in their right mind just realizes they won't get him . That would be a terrible way to run a ball club.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:08 PM) There is zero chance they let a $100 million contract happen after a 1st year. Even Mike Trout didn't get a $100 million contract until his 3rd year of baseball, and that is with two and a half years of MVP numbers first. You are the only one saying $100M . I certainly never said it. I just said a contract more than Andersons. Do you think 3 years $40-60M would be voided with an opt out to become a free agent ? I mean we can go through all kinds of uniquely structured deals that would not kill the Sox and gives Otani free agency after a few years.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:10 PM) Does he go through the posting process? If so, Don't teams have to bid on him and the $300K/$10M is not the issue but who gives the most money to this controlling team to win the bid similar to Tanaka. Can it have been written in a contract somewhere that he splits that fee 50/50? Can this fee be $100M? I answered that above somewhere. Posting fee is currently $20M and may change but not expected to be by much.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) +1 How could you +1 that ? It's like saying let's just give up . The Otani situation is unique in that he will not get big bucks for his 1st year. It would be ludicrous not to make every attempt to pursue him.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) I think the Sox knew they had no chance with Otani so they made sure to get Robert which was the smart move. I'm still not convinced. Most of the money would go to the posting fee to Otani's team. Currently that is $20M and it's now undergoing negotiations to change but not expected to be altered much if at all. The Sox could easily pay that. It's very easy to say the Sox won't get him since the odds are long but to dismiss there's a chance for him entirely is a mistake . The Sox may have to wait a while for Robert, Imagine an instant star like Otani and everything it could mean to the Sox right now ! They need to make every effort to get him however long the odds appear.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) There are also a decent amount of contracts that have been offered after first year's. You really don't see hundred million contracts happen until after renewal years are done. Probably 4th year at least, if not 5th to get comps for that. However in the scenario I mentioned about Otani being an instant success as a hitter and pitcher there would be literally no one to compare him. In that kind of 1st year while paying him minimum wage MLB salary and the 300K bonus the Sox stand to make millions of dollars in endorsements and at the box office. He would be unlike any kind of 1st year player ever if he can be a successful 2 way player. Therefore it is reasonable to assume a contract extension that was uniquely structured would not be out of line based on his unique situation. They would simply be paying him what he is worth to the franchise.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) The thing is you can't discuss an extension during these negotiations, that would be considered tampering by MLB and has already been warned against. I would also be willing to bet that any extension that didn't look like an extension that has already been signed by someone around MLB would get thrown out. You are probably talking something like Tim Anderson's contract, and not a nine figure deal. Well let's say for example he came to the Sox and was an instant star as a pitcher and a hitter far surpassing Anderson;s value after his 1st year. Then an extension could be offered that dwarfs Anderson's deal. I would think the league would be very unlikely to void such a contract extension. If Otani becomes an instant sensation imagine the repercussions on the rebuild, It would give the Sox another star pitcher and hitter. The benefit to the Sox in that case would be astronomical both on the field , in endorsements, and at the box office.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) Huh? It's not like he can sign a mega-deal. The most he could sign for is literally for a bonus of about $10 mill. If the Sox somehow were able to sign him, it would be a miracle haha The odds are long but not in the miracle category. The Sox have some advantages especially if they wanted to extend him after his 1st year. (See my post above). Tadahito Iguchi was actually the 1st full time Japanese position player to win a World Series and last I heard he was still playing and if the Sox signed Otani it would actually have to be for less than the Sox signed Iguchi back in 2005. Iguchi was at Sox Fest just a few years ago if I remember correctly and was still playing in Japan at that time. He has probably met Otani. The Sox could ask Iguchi to be their Otani ambassador . The hierarchy of the Sox front office is almost the same as it was when Iguchi signed .

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 10:35 AM) Actually hope Hahn continues to stay away Not big on this kid There is no reason to stay away from him. If the Sox sign him it would be literally for chump change.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 12:13 PM) Hey maybe there was an ulterior motive to giving Anderson that contract. Call it the Otani Plan. It sets a precedent that you can extend a players contract with minimal servicetime where the league didn't step in and void it. I know I am delusional but just because the most the Sox can offer is $300K shouldn't mean they shouldn't pursue their 1% shot at him. Life is often stranger than fiction. Ya never know. Just as I suspected . This is from the Yahoo article : Since the new rules regarding international players were announced, the question surrounding Otani has been some derivation of: How is he going to skirt them? Officials at MLB insist any effort to subvert the spirit of the rule will not be allowed. Would the league, for example, attempt to cancel a nine-figure contract extension for Otani if he stars in his first season? One official said precedent will matter, and any contract that doesn’t have a forebear will be considered a violation. So the Sox set a precedent with how they extended Anderson. This appears to give the Sox some leverage. Might have to keep an eye on any team this winter that extends a rookie who has had a decent 1st year if extending Otani's contract is judged on whether a team has extended a players contract after one season. So right now the Sox would hve a big advantage.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 12, 2017 -> 10:11 AM) 20 off days besides the four day break, and they still have a stretch of 33 games in 34 days. June 5 - July 8. Scheduling 2,430 games for 30 teams is a tough thing. It would make so much more sense going back to the 154 game schedule with more teams in the playoffs . I know it will never happen but hell games are too long, season is too long. Is baseball purposefully trying to destroy itself ? Pitchers seem to suffer the most. Toss in Hawks rants on his theory of tight seams on baseballs causing a lot of pitchers injuries and long season and pitchers are getting destroyed .

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Sep 11, 2017 -> 09:25 AM) I hate the label "bust" for players who have their careers destroyed by injury. I also hate when fans blame players for their injuries. Like the player some how has any control on staying healthy. Football is brutal and multiple players get hurt every game. This. I have no idea why anyone plays football. Well I do the whole manly man , honor and glory, stardom and on and on but jeez parents steer your kids to baseball.

Burger, Call and Roman doing all the damage so far with Kanny ahead in the 6th 5-4 .

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 12, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) Damnit, Engel could have scored easily on Yolmer's hit. Yes but unfortunately you have to hesitate to make sure that line drive is not caught. See the liners through is the old baseball adage so you don't get doubled off. I know the pitcher was left handed but I was hoping Yolmer would steal second and KC would not have attempted to throw him out thus lessening Jose's chance to ground into a DP . I understand why he didn't attempt to steal with the lefty out there and Yolmer's SB percentage not being great plus Perez arm. But if they do threw all the way through then Engel steals home so think KC doesn't try to get Yolmer. Probably a fake throw to second then hope to catch Engel too far from 3rd or make the throw but it gets caught in front of 2nd to attempt to get Engel at home. Had he been on second instead of 1st maybe Abreu changes his approach.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 12, 2017 -> 07:10 AM) And this is the same batting stance he arrived with, right? Keep it Adam. Yep still K'ing a lot and some bad pitchers but good to see he can hit some mistakes .

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2017 -> 07:41 AM) I really liked him putting down the bunt for a hit last night. Take those free bases where ever you can get them. I think that was 2 nights ago. Yesterday it was an infield hit,

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2017 -> 07:55 AM) Last night was about as perfect of a night to win as you can get. What was strange was watching KC play just awful and stupid defense. Oh that play where Avi was running on the pitch . He was rounding second just about as Cain was catching the fly ball. Avi got back amazingly fast when most players just would ve assumed the double play but he still should've been out by a country mile. Avi got back so fast I thought he had cut across the infield which would be an automatic put for not retouching 2nd base. I was hoping to see a camera angle just on Avi but never did.

Engel showing some signs of life with the bat lately. 3 of last 4 games have been multi hit efforts. Last 7 games his line is .320 .346. .640 .986

I'll take the win when Moncada , Lopez and Engel all do well. Engel with multi hit games in 3 of the last 4 .

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 11, 2017 -> 08:36 AM) I want to know how many cycles actually finish on the triple. Seems like cycle watch always begins when someone has a triple to start the game. Incredible to finish it off with one, especially for a slower big guy. Who had also just fouled a pitch off his ankle and was in obvious pain.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 9, 2017 -> 09:02 PM) Why would they bring him back? Makes absolutely no sense with all these solid prospects and some of the current guys needing at bats. Could somebody answer why you would accept Melky coming back when we have plenty of outfielders who could get MLB at bats in a season where we are tanking again? All you people who don't want to spend any money at all. Why the hell would you give Melky a contract that would keep him in Chicago 2-3 more years. I'd love to hear from anybody who thinks this is a good idea. Now if you say you want Melky so we can keep losing ... uh, we have plenty of hitters in the minors who could play the outifield next year to help us keep losing. I'm totally baffled and mad when I think about this Melky thing. New age Sox fans who worship the advanced stats just floor me. Sorry for my anger but Melky coming back makes NO sense to me at all. It makes no sense if you want to win; it makes no sense if you want to tank some more. You take things too literally. DA was paraphrasing not reporting exact quotes from Hahn. It's possible we bring Melky back in GM speak is translated to this: It's also possible the world ends tomorrow.or if he signs for really cheap .