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QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:38 AM) A little nervous with Gordon coming off an injury that caused him to miss significant time and his age of 32. Would prefer Upton or Cespedes for the offensive impact, BUT if you could get Gordon on a reduced price and then have some $ to go after either a 2nd outfielder like Parra or Jackson, and then have some $ left for a RHP, then you might have something... That's what I've been saying. The Sox search for another RH starter has all but been forgotten at Soxtalk and the starting pitching depth is bad now. No matter who the Sox get to play the OF , one injury to any Sox top 3 starters might negate the gains the offense makes. Sox really need Sale ,Q, and Rodon to be healthy and Eric Johnson to be good and healthy. Because Rodon and Johnson will be limited in amount of innings pitched if the Sox do make the playoffs they might have gassed pitchers and you severely test Sale's arm at that point.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:20 AM) Gordon is a good ball player but I'd pass on him. The Sox can probably get Upton for a little more money who's 5 years younger. Might be $50M more . If that's a little more I need to retire and need $1M . Can you swing it ? Actually 3.5 years younger. Please do not screw with the facts when making a point. It's easy to look up.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) I really don't see how Gordon would be that motivated regardless of where he signs. He's already won a World Series title and got a huge contract...what else is that important to him at this point? Unless he's a true competitor, I think his best years are behind him. The motivated thing was just for a little extra motivation. You always hear about how facing your old team is added incentive. I think he's a professional and being out on the field to earn your money is motivation enough . Upton's and Cespede's best years might be behind them too. Who knows ? Yes I'd rather have one of them but really you would actually be upset at getting Gordon ? I'd be thrilled that the Sox actually got one of them at all.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:01 AM) I'm not sold on Gordon either. I don't like his age, his offense isn't great, he can't play RF, he's coming off an injury, and I don't think his defense will stay elite going forward, which is where the bulk of his value comes from. Do the Sox really need "great "offense ? They need more talent. Yea his defense will start degrading or has already started but there's no doubting he has a lot of talent. Out of the big 3 Gordon has the highest Steamer projected WAR next year and it isn't because of the "bulk" of his value comes from defense. Give me a guy familiar with the AL and especially AL Central pitching all day. They are the easier to say that I won't have to wonder about their projection as I would with NL players making the transition to the AL.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) I seen that Twitter update couple days ago but didn't think much of it. I'd be stunned if he left KC for CWS unless we offered way more money. I wouldn't be stunned. The best way to hurt the Royals for low balling him would be to sign in the same division so he can get back at them . I like a motivated player .

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:54 AM) I do too, but I have this nagging feeling he's going to sign for 16 mill and everyone will be kicking themselves. Sign Gordon, Melky DH's ,LaRoche occasional start ,PH, defensive replacement or gone one way or another. Yes please . It's not Cespedes or Upton but not a bad third choice at all.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:11 AM) Although I just broke this rule too, this thread is for tweets, quotes and links. Keep the analysis to a minimum. No longer necessary since this is a separate thread now from the "tweets" thread for those of you who actually do as a mod suggests

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) No way on Fowler, besides the lost draft pick his market is way over-inflated. I'd like to think of him as a good add-on guy AFTER you bring in one of the top 3, but he's going to get paid more than I'd be willing to go. If I'm parting with a draft pick, it's Upton or Gordon and no one else. We'll have to see if it really is over inflated. The glut of OFer's on the market is making many of these guys sweat it out. Fowler maybe should have been one of those guys to accept the QO . He most likely wants 4/5 years but it appears these guys are not going to get what they are asking especially if the Big 3 all sign for less than expected.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) Fowler makes a ton of sense if not for that damn QO. Would have loved to see him in the 2 spot and have 2 guys in him and Eaton getting on base at a good clip ahead of Abreu/Fraizer......Wouldn't hate to see them still go for him as he makes the lineup, and defense, a whole lot better, but prefer they stay away......Gimme Parra. According to Fangraphs Upton's WAR last year was 3.6, Fowler's 3.2 , Parra's .4 due to a surprisingly bad defensive rating. With the current lack of movement on OF'ers maybe Fowler decides to cut bait and sign for less . It might not take $50M+ to sign him if he takes 3 years. Yes losing the pick would hurt. Just don't see the Sox having much left to make a trade . They've dumped an awful lot of minor leaguers the last few seasons and losing a draft pick when they need to re stock the system would help . But the payroll becomes a lot more hamstrung signing Upton and you also lose the pick and might lose the ability to make another significant signing.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 07:09 AM) IIRC the mets still have severe money issues The Mets would love to have him back but they are like the rest of the teams out there waiting for the price to drop, He might be seeking 6 years and that is a lot. If a team can sign him for 5 years /$110-115M he would probably be off the market already.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 07:42 AM) I doubt the Sox have interest in Fowler. Will cost them a pick, and he's a below average OF with a mediocre bat. He does walk a good bit, though. And he bats RH, which doesn't make him a natural platoon with anyone on the roster. I would think Parra would be at the top of their list if they fall short Cespedes, Upton and Gordon. I could also see the Sox being active in trying to find an OF via trade. Not sure who, though. Blackmon and Dickerson would be nice fits that have been discussed, but may be too spendy. Reddick another guy to look at, but he only has one year of control remaining, so he doesn't really fit in the new 2-3 year window, but perhaps could be gotten a little cheaper, but don't see the Sox making another deal with the A's. Beyond that, I don't really see many great fits on the FA market. Perhaps a Span or Austin Jackson. Or a tier lower like Raburn, Murphy or Joyce. But all of those guys have significant question marks..I'd almost prefer to see a Shuck/Avi platoon in RF than signing some(most) of those guys, outside of Span, any just see what happens..you can always try to pick up an OF in June. Losing the draft pick would be a main obstacle to what I mentioned. In 2005 Pods had an OBP of .351 and Iguchi .342 . Last year Eaton was at .361 and Fowler .346 but the previous 3 years were .375, .369 and .389 and his OPS surprisingly has always been above .750 . Also in 2005 I noticed that all the Sox regulars had HR's in double digits and OPS above .700 except for Pods. Abreu ,Frazier, Eaton, Fowler, Cabrera, LaRoche ,Lawrie ,Navarro ,Garcia and maybe even Saladino all seem capable of 10+ HR's although a .700+ OPS might be a bit of a stretch for some of them. Many of you cite Upton's OBP as a reason why he is the more attractive free agent. Fowlers OBP is very very good usually and he did hit 17 HR last year and can improve the defense more than Upton and play CF to move Eaton to left which might be his more natural position. Fowler is like Upton lite. If the Sox sign one of the big 3 do they really have the money then to get that other RH starter they are seeking or would it have to be bargain basement shopping again ? A Fowler signing would mean more payroll flexibilty would it not ?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:46 AM) Many of us die hard Sox fans dread the upcoming fervor, we're convinced will be sweeping across the city, over the Cubs' quest for their first World Championship in over a Century. We're skeptical that the front office will take the necessary steps to complete revamping the pathetic offense, which wasted so many terrific starts by Sale and Quintana. So, some of us have already resigned ourselves to the inevitability of a 2016 Season, in which the North Side will capture all of the attention of the city, and maybe even the baseball world. We might be a little premature in sinking into this gloomy defeatist mood. Chicago is a great baseball town, and baseball fever is contagious. When the buzz starts to capture everyone's attention, lots of casual fans, and even formerly uninterested by standers, will begin to feel the first symptoms of baseball fever. Picking up the paper every morning and reading about all of the excitement, listening to friends, family and co workers bantering back and forth about players, plays and stats, could all create an irresistible attraction to the sport we all love. Who knows better than we, how much fun and how addicting it can be to be a baseball fanatic? Wrigley can only accommodate 42,000 fans. Where will the rest of the baseball fever struck fans go, for their baseball fix? Everyone in town knows a Sox fan, or two and with a little encouragement from them, the newbie just might be encouraged to buy a ticket and see just what all of the excitement is about. The Sox need only have a decent, competitive product on the field. And if baseball fever is contagious, so is winning. Who knows, with a few more fans in the seats and some of the new personalities in the Sox clubhouse, these guys might just catch fire. If they could get off to a good start, the town could explode with enthusiasm for the game. Imagine the so longed for talk of a crosstown World Series. It wouldn't take much to set off this contagion. We all have our own opinions about whom the front office should acquire, but let's just hope that Sox ownership has a little imagination and can see the opportunity that they would be missing if they don't at least try to make the team a legitimate contender. I'm not suggesting that we Sox fans should celebrate the emergence of the Cubs, but we shouldn't regard it as a negative for our fortunes. The Sox will decide their own destiny and the growing enthusiasm for their crosstown rivals may actually be a positive. I absolutely love your optimistic outlook. I think finishing what they started this off season and winning are the true keys to getting fans into the ballpark. If the product stinks no amount of baseball fever will bring anyone to see the ugly step child the Sox will be. Build it and they will come.

Many of us believe if the Sox don't sign one of the big 3 OFer's ( Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) that signing Frazier will have been a waste. Needless to say signing one of the BIG 3 will be the richest contract ever given by the Sox. How likely is that ? Would it be more likely the Sox pursue a guy like Fowler to play CF and who's OBP is very high to create a 1-2 OBPunch at the top of the order ? It would mean better OF defense but he's not even close to being the kind of impact bat Upton or Cespedes are. Still Eaton and Fowler at the top of the order would certainly give guys like Abreu and Frazier many opportunities to get RBI's. Maybe Fowler takes a 3 year contract and then the Sox have more room to sign that RH starting pitcher they have been reportedly seeking or add another BP piece like Albers. Or both. Would this kind of back up plan be acceptable or seen as a 1/2 measure ?

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for some of these OFer's to sign and for how much. It's a buyers market now but someone will blink and I'm guessing it'll be the Orioles unless Chris Davis suddenly says yes to their offer . Boras is comfortable playing the waiting game. If nothing happens for another month or teams start throwing out low ball offers like KC did for Gordon, I wouldn't be surprised to hear agents start throwing around the word "collusion" again. Did all these teams all of a sudden realize paying for declining years is a waste of resources and that the scales have tilted too far in the players direction ? Or is it simply the glut of OFer's on the market ? Good news is all these things add to the Sox chances of landing one of the big 3 . Instead of $150M, maybe it drops down to the $100-130M range. Of course all this gnashing of teeth about a payroll of $130-135M is silly. Create a buzz. It happened last year for a bunch of guys who turned out to be stiffs, Frazier and a guy like Cespedes/Upton should be potentially even more enticing to fans. Don't wait too long Sox or the boat might leave the dock without you.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 08:15 AM) Is there a list out there somewhere of who the interesting Cuban Free agents are out there right now? http://m.mlb.com/news/article/157054364/cu...ot-stove-season : part of the article below Yaisel Sierra, 24, is the exception. The right-handed pitcher is considered the top unrestricted free agent from Cuba available this offseason, and he could sign once he is declared a free agent. Some scouts think Sierra can be a top-of-the-rotation pitcher. Others think he might be best suited for the middle of the rotation and that he needs to work on his command. Sierra's fastball was in the 94-97-mph range consistently, and he hit 98 mph in a showcase in front of 100 scouts in August in the Dominican Republic. Sierra also shined in three innings during a showcase at Roger Dean Stadium in Jupiter, Fla., in front of an estimated 350 scouts on Oct. 23. He has also been throwing for teams each week for the past two months in the Dominican Republic. Because of Sierra's age and experience, he will not be subject to the international signing guidelines. There's a belief that Sierra can help a Major League team next season. He could also command a contract comparable to the seven-year, $27 million deal the Reds gave to Cuban starting pitcher Raisel Iglesias last summer and the four-year, $32 million deal starter Jose Contreras signed with the Yankees in 2002. Joining Sierra on the list of top unrestricted free agents from Cuba available are outfielder Guillermo Heredia, infielders Luis Yander La O Camacho and Pavel Quesada. Pitcher Vladimir Gutierrez, outfielder Yusniel Diaz along with pitcher Norge Ruiz, Cionel Perez and Adrian Morejon headline a long list of young prospects from Cuba subject to the international signing guidelines. Most of these players are in various stages of their paperwork to become eligible to sign. There's the RH pitcher Hahn could sign especially with a few teams banned from signing. Other players to watch are also listed in the piece.

Todd Frazier's walk up music is Frank Sinatra . Either Fly Me to the Moon or Come Fly with Me. Maybe he will change it to My Kind of Town (Chicago is) or Chicago (That Toddlin' Town).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 06:17 PM) Which is the one who used to write for the Sporting News? I remember that name, and Tracy Ringolsby, who I think writes for the Denver Post still... If you had read the link I provided, Dave Nightingale actually was the 1st national correspondent for the Sporting News . He also was an official scorer at World Series and All Star games.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 03:33 PM) Didn't he originally cover the Sox many moons ago? I always know that when Nightengale speaks about the Sox, I listen. Maybe you are thinking of Dave Nightingale. He covered the Sox many many moons ago . Way before your time. Assigned White Sox beat for the Chicago Daily News in 1966. Died in 2007. http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Dave_Nightingale

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 05:18 PM) You make a valid point about the trend, and I do worry about the A. L. factor. I'd also love Cespedes. Nevertheless, Upton has been pretty consistent, in his career, and he is young enough that we shouldn't expect age to be a factor, for a while. Also looking at the HR chart for 2015 (which I love, by the way ,especially that you can overlay US Cellular Field onto the distances of the HR) Cespedes uses the whole field for his bombs whereas Upton is more of a pull hitter. Not sure what his hit chart looks like but a pull hitter would be more vulnerable to shifts. Cespedes avg. true HR distance 408 feet. Just beastly. I always thought Giancarlo Stanton had the longest true distance for his HR's but Joc Pederson beats him 421.7 to 417.6 ft. Surprisingly Eric Hosmer and Ian Desmond are right up there in the Golden Sledgehammer department. Joey Gallo only hit 6 HR's but they were massive averaging 430 ft !!

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 04:39 PM) Upton's Career Stats are remarkably consistent. Even his Inter-League numbers are very close to his performance against N. L. teams. The guy seems to hit righties and lefties about the same, whether at home, or on the road. Even where he bats in the lineup has had very little effect. All of that is very reassuring, especially regarding the concerns that some of us have expressed about acquiring National League players. If we could put him in the heart of the order and just pencil in his career numbers of .271 .352 .473 .825, the Sox really could be ready to compete for a couple of Post Season runs. I think it's a mistake to look at career stats . After all the guy isn't 22, 23, 24 any more. . I think it's best to look for trends . Last year he was bad vs. left handers and terribly streaky. Just look at his bating averages by month. June and July he was terrible. His OBP has gone down for 4 straight years. All that being said I wouldn't be at all upset if the Sox got him because he does have a good track record . I just like Cespedes and his AL pedigree more.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 04:44 PM) I started watching some Upton highlights from last year and something jumped off the screen to me...he hit a ton of cheap homers. I looked up the stats and he was near the top of the list for lucky/cheap homers. This was one of the warning signs that people had regarding LaRoche and Abreu after 2014. Upton's average home run distance was 10 feet less in 2015 than 2014. He's a good player, but his power is his main tool and if that starts to fade, you're looking at a bad contract possibly. He's 28 but he might be an old 28. He's played a ton of games the last 5 years, never less than 149 games. That's usually a good thing ,always being in the lineup, but it can take it's toll. His OBP has declined 4 straight years to his career low last year and he was a notoriously streaky hitter.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 07:01 AM) Boo! That would suck the air out of the balloon and piss off the marketing department in one fell swoop...might as well sign Franklin Gutierrez too. Ha oh trust me I would love Cespedes. Not only do I think he's the best player but it would mean the most from a marketing standpoint since he was so visible last year with all that MVP talk once he got to the Mets. Then there's the Cuban Whatever it would end up being called pairing him with Abreu. Then start winning and it's Little Havana at the Cell every game. Would be a lot of fun. Add some Cuban drinks to the menu and Ricky Ricardo , Gloria Estafan music , have a Bongo Night giveaway and it's dancing in the aisles .

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 06:48 AM) Ha ha, watch the Sox surprise everyone and sign Parra. That is the more likely scenario. Signing Upton or Cespedes is pretty farfetched in reality.

It's a very tough choice to make. Love Gordon's OBP , left handedness and defense but he is a big guy and the oldest of the 3 . Afraid injuries and age will slow him down most of the 3 but also might be the least expensive. Many like Upton because of his OBP, relative youth, speed, and power but I dislike career NL guys especially ones who aren't good defensively . He had an odd year. Was very bad against left handers and had some terrible months in June and July. Still his OPS+ was 121 and his OBP has trended down 4 years in a row to a career low .336 . I like Cespedes the best mainly because he is an RBI guy. Now I know some worry about his OBP but he is one of only 3 hitters with 100+ RBI the last 2 years. Abreu and Bautista the others. Would love to make Abreu more comfortable with a fellow Cuban next to him in the lineup. Whether they are friends or not isn't as important . Just having a fellow countryman around is a little slice of home. I want a hitter who hits with guys on base not a guy who walks and leaves it up to the next guy to drive them in. Cespedes hits righties like he's left handed. He really crushes them . In fact he does struggle a bit with left handers sort of like Abreu did in 2015. Even with a mostly righty lineup it appears the Sox would be more vulnerable to left handers. Cespedes also ranks high among OFers in DRS . He hit well for the Tigers so he is familiar with the AL and the AL Central. Any one of the 3 I would be happy with since it's a lot of talent but Cespedes is my pick.

Just for the record on the surface, I think this was a fair trade. I've always said the Sox need more talent and you can't knock Frazier's talent is All Star worthy. In a different framework I am as worried about it as some of the other posters. Whether you agree with it or see flaws in it ,the continual gathering of NL players has not worked. Besides the Sox examples you had Scherzer going from a very good pitcher to a crazy good pitcher throwing complete games and no hitters in the NL. Nick Markakis almost hit .300 in the NL . Gerrado Parra was hitting very well in the NL and then tailed off a lot once he got to Baltimore. Admittedly this is not a science and I haven't done a lot of research into it. It's an observation based on the Sox "bad Luck" and checking out some stats of Parra and reading things about Markasis and being a general baseball observer in the case of Scherzer, I am more confident Lawrie will repeat his numbers more so than Frazier for this very reason. Of course I am hoping for the best and would love to be surprised. You can even throw Cespedes in the example between his time with the Tigers and Mets with his OPS+ ,OPS and slugging rising in the NL. 1 less HR in the NL in 175 less AB's. Of course Cespedes numbers with the Tigers weren't too shabby either and for that reason if the Sox go after an OF I would prefer Cespedes. However that would leave Eaton in CF and I was hoping for Thompson in CF with a RF upgrade over Avi . Admittedly sometimes I let my heart rule my head but I really liked Montas but am continually surprised that even our Minor league experts talk about him as if he is a finished product or cite his minor knee surgeries as some big problem. I think he has or will develop top of the rotation skills meaning a 1 or 2 starter. He has good mechanics and a compact delivery which should continue to help his command . Like I said it was a fair trade but if in the next few years Montas becomes a top starter or Frazier stumbles in the AL it becomes another example of the Sox trusting the NL to improve the team and giving up on our young talent too early. On the plus side if he does well the Sox have a good trade chip for when he elects free agency , they are not handicapped by his salary, 30-35 HR's is a significant offensive upgrade , and he should provide adequate defense at 3rd.