CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) I know this won't be a popular perspective but if Baltimore is willing to go 5 years on Cespedes then they can have him. I think it's possible the Sox have been made aware of this offer and why we've seen the reports about the Sox looking elsewhere. One more thing, Hahn has no balls! I said all along that that Sox wouldn't get Cespedes or Upton but I would sure like to be wrong. If the Sox thought LaRoche at age 35 and 36 and coming from the NL ,was a bat that would get them into contention along with their other moves then why is paying Cespedes with experience facing AL central pitching, until he's 33 (4 year deal) or 34 (5 year deal) such a bad thing ? Seems like everything has fallen into the Sox lap to sign him so why not get him at reduced years and salary compared to what everyone thought it would take to get him ? If they can't take advantage of this market I have no idea how they plan to compete with no one in the minors to step up and very little left on the farm to trade .

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:57 PM) That's cause all of the three big guys after Heyward weren't ideal fits. Still have no idea what they are doing with RF Upton is a RF'er but ,regardless ,as much as I love good defense the Sox aren't going to end up with a much better defensive OF adding Fowler or Austin Jackson either. No matter who they get it'll still mean either Melky or Eaton in RF or their previous positions which wasn't good last year for either of them unless they convince Cespedes to play there which seems doubtful since he has never played it. You get a bat like his and you let him play where he is comfortable. With Cespedes at least they have one OF who grades out positively defensely instead of all 3 being question marks.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:46 PM) Great way to put it. Don't forget to add - you're losing a pick with Fowler. I did say that . "Fowler with the cost of a draft pick and Cespedes no draft pick. "

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:16 PM) Last thing you want is money tied up in Cespedes in three years when there are so many good players available via free agency Maybe in 3 years the Sox payroll might get over $150M . What do you think the Sox are going to spend money on when Frazier and Lawrie are gone after 2 years ? There's always going to be an excuse not to pay good players . The farm is back to being woeful now after getting rid of all but the top 2 or 3 guys. Signing Fowler means another draft pick gone. You get nothing for Alexei when they could have, didn't trade Samardzija when they could have. Do the Sox actually value the minors for anything but trade bait while they give lip service to an extended window of contention ? Do you think the Sox would have done that deal where Atlanta got all those guys for Shelby Miller if they had offered Quintana ? I see no clear direction for the team. They aren't building a farm system and they aren't willing to do what needs to be done to compete unless they stay completely healthy and get 5 or 6 career years from guys. Might as well just tell everyone don't bother getting excited or buying season tix . We're shooting for .500 .

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:55 PM) They play two separate roles. I'm not sure why that is so hard for fans to understand. Is Cespedes the better player? Sure. Most are fooled by his career year, because outside of that, he's averaged 2.8 WAR per year, while Fowler has averaged 2.1 WAR over his career playing in full years. Not sure Cespedes warrants up to $10M more per season. I understand perfectly . The Sox need Cespedes more than they need Fowler . Would it be good to have Fowler and his OBP ? Of course . I'd just like it a lot more if there was someone to drive him in . Fowler with the cost of a draft pick and Cespedes no draft pick and one of only 2 players ( Abreu being the other) to drive in 100 runs 2 straight years. Not fooled by a career year one iota. Not only will he produce way more runs but most likely wil save more runs from scoring also while adding a boost to the Sox in just about every way imaginable when it comes to excitement and being competitive. Does Fowler really seem like that guy to put the Sox over the top and into contention after getting Frazier ? Right now I'd like to know there's a guy besides Abreu who can be counted on in the middle of the lineup.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) Cespedes would be nice but he's got a low OBP %, will get paid big money & most fans are probably expecting close to last year's production which is simply not realistic. Would he be a good get? Absolutely, but the drop off from him to Fowler isn't as large as some think. Can they put Fowler in the middle of the lineup and expect 100 RBI's from him ? If the answer to that is no then the drop off from Cespedes to him is huge not only in run production but probably in season tickets, attendance and hopes to be in contention .

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) If that's the ultimate lesson of Adam Dunn, Adam LaRoche and John Danks, great. Then develop one of the top 5-10 farm systems in the game (that consistently produces 2-3 contributors per season) and spend that money in Latin America/international free agents under 30. Being timid now after being so aggressive going after Lawrie and Frazier doesn't make any sense. The White Sox, Padres and Red Sox weren't wrong about spending last year. They simply picked the wrong players. This whole thing is like the White Sox are promoting the idea of Natalie Portman in Closer or Jessica Alba in Sin City and then we dutifully buy our tickets and Bartolo Colon comes out in a thong instead. As far as I'm concerned out of all the OF'ers on the market Cespedes is the least likely to crap out than any of them and as of this moment he won't get the years or the AAV he was seeking. The Sox seem to want even less years and less AAV. I can see room for some compromise but if they don't budge we probably end up with Fowler which would be a huge disappointment . Abreu , Cespedes, possible contention vs. Fowler and rely on Abreu once again to do the heavy lifting and pray Frazier adjusts well to the AL .

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:04 PM) Sure but if they stick to 3 year limit then Orioles have an advantage I have absolutely know idea why they would stick to 3 years with him . That would be his age 30, 31 and 32 seasons. It's not unreasonable to go 4 or even 5 years for him which would bring him through age 34. If the Sox thought they could get production from Adam LaRoche's age 35 and 36 seasons why wouldn't they pay for a much more athletic guy like Cespedes age 33 and 34 seasons ? I just don't get what the FO is doing. They have to go at least 4 years to be taken seriously . Cespedes will not want to re-enter free agency after his age 32 season.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) I think a 5 year deal would be a mistake for a player that inconsistent. Don't quite get the inconsistent label being attached to Cespedes. 1st year did well . Pitchers probably didn't quite know how to go at him. 2nd Year sophomore slump. Easily his worst year but still had an OPS+ of 103 which only 2 Sox players had last year ( only looking at last years roster not Frazier or Lawrie) 3rd year. Improved from 2nd year. Got 100 RBI's. Re-adjusted to the pitchers adjustment to him . All offensive categories up except HR's 4th year. Very good with Tigers and even better with the Mets. Again improved from previous year in all offensive categories. Career: 122 OPS+ , .486 slugging. .805 OPS Sox could really use another RBI guy who knows the AL Central otherwise it's Abreu and hope Frazier hits AL pitching better than his last few counterparts to join the Sox from the NL did.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 09:00 AM) I dont see why Cespedes would take a 1-2 year deal with the Mets over a 4 year deal with the Sox. That makes absolutely no sense. I think it makes plenty of sense. The NL has a bunch of weak teams with weak pitching . That's exactly how Cespedes put up the huge numbers last year. He can bet on himself to A) not get hurt and B) feast on that bad pitching in the NL. Then he reenters the market with a more consistent track record and less competition. He knows the AL has a bunch of tough teams with a lot of good pitching. Staying in the NL strengthens his chances for another very good year. It's a risk but athletes are supremely confident in their abilities and I'm sure his agents would rather he bet on himself so their payday can also be bigger if it all works out as planned for him

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) Gonna guess 1/6.5m w/ 1m worth of incentives Terms haven't been disclosed yet other than it being a 1 year deal with an option year. I guessed long ago if the Sox were to resign him, which I didn't think they'd do, it would be in the 3-5M range and I'll stick to that with the Padres if it ever gets disclosed.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 12:02 PM) Since we're looking in hindsight, the time to trade Alexei was last winter when the Mets were reportedly interested and the return was speculated to be either Flores or Wheeler. I remember there being a thread on the rumor of Alexei to the Mets and the expectations on a return for Alexei were ridiculous. Again, its all in hindsight and irrelevant now. I wish Alexei nothing but the very best and I really hope SD signs him over Desmond. Maybe Alexei can mentor Amarista. Soxtalk was pretty split on either trading him coming off a decent season or keeping him. Can always re-visit the thread to see who was right. Just pretty odd that the Sox got nothing for him when they could have and also Samardzija . Lost opportunities really seem to be a theme that hurts the Sox even though we can never know what they would have received back for either . Good luck Alexei thanks for the memories.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 06:41 PM) I mean, I get where he's coming from. You've got two aces up front, a possible ace after them, then two wild cards. If it was poker 2 aces and 2 wild cards would be 4 Aces with a possibility of 5 Aces.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:39 PM) Id be very interested in seeing what lncecum might have left That's who I was thinking that the Sox might have an interest in. Not sure if he'd get a ML contract though. Minor league deal or is someone willing to put him in the rotation from the get go at this time ?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) CarGo makes sense in that he will be the least expensive option is younger than Cespedes, plays RF, and fits in the three year window that the Sox supposedly do not want to surpass. I imagine a package would be built around Anderson and Fulmer to get the deal done with some other pieces thrown in there. Cargo and Cespedes are almost the exact same age. Cargo born 1 day before Cespedes.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) He was responding to a poster literally asking for a list of the tier 2/3 pitchers, chill. If a mod said stay on topic and I've seen it many times would you tell them to chill ? It was a polite suggestion .

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 05:59 PM) Ian Kennedy, Latos, Fister, Chen (probably too expensive, at one point Boras was aiming for $100 million) and Y.Gallardo are probably the top five remaining pitchers on the market. Except for Fister, all of them should be in the $12-16 million range. Latos might be on the lower end as well. Chen the upper end and probably unaffordable/Boras Factor. But you have to look at JA Happ's contract and think anything is possible with pitching contracts STILL, as well as Leake's deal with the Cardinals. These aren't dominating or frontline starters by any stretch of the imagination. There are other threads to talk about pitching. Just sayin' this the Cespedes threasd.

In the last 3 years Cespedes has 462 AB's with RISP . In those 462 AB's he has 191 RBI's . 191 !! With the bases loaded in the same time frame he has a .455 batting average , .788 slugging pct. and 1.220 OPS. OK only 33 AB's with bases loaded but still you get the point .

It's my personal opinion that Cespedes will sign ,at the minimum ,a 5 year contract. That would take him through his age 30, 31, 32, 33 and age 34 seasons. This is not unreasonable to expect . He has carried teams on his back a few times and has good defensive numbers. He is a run producer. He loves hitting with men on base. He has seen a sports psychologist to better prepare himself to perform and focus in situations that require a big hit. He is exactly what they need. You can gripe about him being inconsistent . All that means to me is that he only carried 2 teams on his back out of the 4 he's played for. (Oakland and Mets ) How many guys are even capable of that ? Harper ? Pujols in his prime ? Who could possibly be better to pair with Abreu ? How sweet would it be to have a 3,4 ,5 all capable of 30+ HR's ? Abreu and Cespedes are RBI machines.They will push each other to excellence. This needs to happen.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Where you at Bucket? rabbit? Feed the masses I don't understand the desire for inside info. Plenty of people on Soxtalk have analyzed the situation perfectly. Gordon would end up being the cheapest and most signable for lesser years. Common sense would tell you he would be the Sox 1st choice of the big 3. People on here were saying Upton to the Orioles as a threat almost a month ago. Also despite the many tweets linking the Sox to the big 3 it just means they have been trying and they'd be stupid not to with the market looking favorable. However ,as Rosenthal pointed out , MLB has money up the ying yang and sooner or later it comes to the forefront . The Sox do not f*** around with the bottom line very often so it's always made anyone of the Big 3 other than Gordon a long shot.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 08:32 AM) Good call. lefty bat too. It's not crazy. Something is holding up everything and it might actually be (in part) us. With this chasing Gordon thing (also a lefty bat) Sox have no ammo left for another big trade. They got nothing left in the minors close to ML ready and the high upside guys left down there are guys the Sox want to keep. They would create another hole trading from the 25 man roster. They have to keep Anderson because he is the heir apparent at SS. Have to keep Fulmer because Danks probably goes bye -bye after this year. Have to keep Quintana unless they get the " small army" they've been looking for and there's no depth with Montas gone.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 07:35 AM) If we get him, great. If not, easy to live with not paying him 100 million dollars based off of a career year at 30 Just for the sake of accuracy Cespedes was 29 last year not 30. Albert Belle came off of a pretty huge year before the Sox signed him and for his age 30 season with the Sox his numbers did drop but that 2nd year with the Sox at age 31 he was back to being a monster again. Of course Belle had many established seasons with the Indians unlike Cespedes who hasn't been around that long. Imagine if Cespedes ,after some time in both leagues, has a better idea now of what to expect. He could have a few more huge years ahead of him. His upside is the highest of any OF and his down side isn't as bad as Gorodn or Upton (since he would be switching leagues).

Not sure that this affects the Cespedes/Upton market much. Gordon always seemed to want to stay in KC. Cespedes/Upton probably are open to any team willing to pay. Don't have much hope the Sox land either one but I didn't from the beginning of the whole process. The best chance the Sox had was with Gordon because the contract would be shorter and less expensive . Now if they want Cespedes ( who was my 1st choice) they will have to pay dearly . Cespedes will be over $100M and probably easily over. The whole reason why I started the other thread on what options the Sox pursue if one of the big 3 wasn't signed (subsequent threads were all copycats ) was because it just never seemed likely to happen. Cespedes would sell tickets paired with Abreu and possibly more season tickets than last year. Question is do the Sox have the cojones ? Albert Belle signed with the Sox for his age 30 season. Here's hoping Cespedes is the Belle of this years ball . I will gladly look like a moron for my pessimism .

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 3, 2016 -> 04:05 PM) I have a good feeling something is gonna happen today There's a feeling I get when I look to the west.. I'm hooked on a feeling , I'm high on believin'... Feelings whoa ooh ohh feelings.. See me , feel me, touch me, heal me.... Cum on feel the noize... I feel like a number... I feel like makin, I feel like makin' love to you... I feel good. I knew that I would now.. And I can't fight this feelin' any more... And I got a peaceful, easy feeling... She's in love with me and I feel fine. I've gotta feeling, a feeling deep inside oh yeah .. When the dog bites When the bee stings When I'm feeling sad I simply remember my favorite things And then I don't feel so bad Edit: I keep adding more but if you want to kill time you can name the bands. Should be easy to anyone over ummm hmmm 45 ?? Yea go with 45 like the rpm record.

Best catcher Sox have had in my lifetime. I always know his birth date is 12/26/1947 because he is exactly 10 years older than me.