CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) He clearly meant 5/102. Then he better write what he means or edit it

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 06:06 AM) If they only want 3 years, then frontload, not backload. Offer Cespedes 3/102, with an opt out after 3. 24 per for 3 years, then it drops to 15 per for 2. Opt out after 3. 3/102 would be 34M/yr . 3/72 is 24M AAV .

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 03:27 PM) Couldn't this exact same phrase have been said after Adam Dunn's 2011 season? His tenure with the Sox after that wasn't perfect, but it was leaps and bounds better than 2011. I don't think LaRoche will be any different. The worst case scenario for him next season IMO is .210 or so with 15 homers. I've seen this said a few times and Dunn was 32 in 2012 and LaRoche wil be 36 . Pretty big difference . Not sure why I keep seeing so many people saying he will rebound. I hope he rebounds but expecting it is quite another thing. I expect him to be bad because he is over the hill. Blaming it on a hand injury which required no DL stint is just some way to justify misguided rebound talk. LaRoche said at one point late in the season that he would've benched himself 2 months before Ventura did. http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/adam-l...-two-months-ago. Also in that article: LaRoche continues to be mystified by the particulars of his struggles. He has had difficulty spotting any significant differences when he looks at video of his swing now compared with when he has had past successes. Whereas he didn't panic when he struggled earlier in the year, as he always has, LaRoche admitted "when you get on later in the year it gets more difficult." The only thing I could find in a limited search for an injury was patella tendinitis . "The lingering knee malady has kept LaRoche out of the lineup since Sept. 13, but he believes he originally suffered the injury two months ago". That was from Sept. 24 . From July 22: White Sox 1B Adam LaRoche believes struggles are mental by Marty Gitlin | CBSSports.com Struggling first baseman Adam LaRoche can only watch so much tape of his approach at the plate and swing. He realizes that his problems are more between his ears than what he sees on replay. LaRoche has been a dud in his first year in the Windy City. He is batting just .221 with nine home runs and 33 RBI in the middle of what should be a strong lineup. He is batting a mere .160 (8-for-50) with no taters and two RBI in July. "You keep swinging and you keep working," he told MLB.com. "There's only so much video you can watch, only so many things you can go back and look at that you think might have been different in the past. The fact is you just have to get in the box and be confident, expect good things to happen."

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 30, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) Lol wut? OK geez some of you guys... His "see you next year "comment doesn't mean he thinks what Nightengale said is contradictory . It means see you next year ,like in a few days is next year guys. They aren't close to signing anyone so give it a few more days.. next year, get it ?

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) I believe raBBit tweeted earlier today that 2 ain't happening. Astounding that anyone actually needs confirmation from Bugs Bunny that the Sox wouldn't be signing 2 high priced free agent OFers. Inside sources don't take the place of common sense. I'm still coming to grips that the Sox would even sign one of them and I still won't believe it til it's confirmed.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) A Parra/Avi platoon in RF would be better than league average offensively. Avi kills the defense platoon, but I am not ready to call Parra (the strong side of the platoon) a bad defender quite yet. He was among the best in the league a mere 2 years ago. LF - Gordon CF - Eaton RF - Parra/Avi platoon DH - Melky Late inning defensive replacement / PH - LaRoche That alignment IMMENSELY improves the OF defense and gives the Sox a great lineup. This is the best case scenario in my mind. It would be way too expensive unless you can get Parra on a 1 year deal . Rather see Parra money go to address starting pitching depth .Ideally you get someone exactly like Trayce Thompson (cheap, good defensively, power, offensive upside) to play RF and eliminate Avi altogether by trade or sending him to the minors. Late in the game do you want Avi in the OF if he pinch hit for Parra ? I sure don't. Also Parra may not be suited for CF any more. It's probably why his defensive ratings were way down. The 4th OF needs to be able to back up CF . Getting Trayce back would be a lot less expensive than paying too much for the likes of Parra who fell off a cliff from his NL hitting once he got to Baltimore. Bring back Trayce, bring back Trayce !

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 26, 2015 -> 05:56 PM) That would seem the plan for now. Melky LF, Avi/LaRoche DH and the Sox make a move for a right fielder. I could be way the hell off base with this but I think alot of the Gordon speculation is due to the media. The Sox were rumored to be quite high on Upton long before the media ran with the Gordon hype. Upton and Cespedes have been eerily quiet so the media needed something to run with. Avi or LaRoche will be gone imo. How can they possibly carry both ? If one of the Big 3 is signed then Avi becomes 4th OF for which he is ill-suited defensively. Or he's in the minors.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 06:05 AM) It should be a RH hitting OF that plays good defense as the 4th guy. Someone like Austin Jackson. This would allow you to rotate the DH spot among the OF's vs LHP Or someone like Trayce Thompson. Just get him back from the Dodgers. Then he could play RF and be backup CF or be the ideal 4th OF.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 25, 2015 -> 03:54 AM) Nah I was laughed at and made fun of yesterday at the possibility of Gordon signing for close to 70 mil. Obviously he has to sign for 5 years/100 mil because that's what's expected even though there are like 2 teams in on him and one offered around 50 mil. Not sure why anyone would scoff at Gordon getting close to the $70M range. KC is out after lowballing him. It's been reported he wants to stay in the mid-west. I think it's most likely the Sox didn't offer a significant amount above KC's offer which was reportedly 12/13M for 4 years. Perhaps the Sox offered 4/ 17-18 which would be $68/72M. His agent is probably still sticking to the $20M AAV figure if he's going to accept 4 years instead of 5. The Cardinals have been talking to the Rockies about an OF ,perhaps they jump back into the Gordon fray . They fit his profile.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 06:53 AM) To be honest, were both making assumptions. I am assuming Fulmer will be ready for '17 but you're assuming the Brewers would be interested in taking on both contracts in Danks and LaRoche. You're also assuming Garza will be better for the Sox and if he isn't the SOX rotation will be down graded by such a trade which is not good for a team trying to be a contender. Do the Sox really need to spend 13M for a long reliever in Garza if Fulmer is ready in '17? Just my opinion but I would much rather have the contracts of Danks and LaRoche for one more season than Garza's contract for 2-3 more. I still think a better option would be to look into trading Danks for some lower minor league depth and sign Jackson on the cheap. I doubt Jackson would be any worse than Garza. Plus, Jackson can probably be had for a cheap one year deal so the risk is much less than Garza in both the short and long term. LOL It's a fantasy trade just like any fantasy trade . It goes without saying that I assume both teams are willing to do it. No sense in proposing it otherwise, I like your ideas I just don't like hanging onto LaRoche. Everybody's in happy talk mood now hoping praying wishing LaRoche has it in him to bounce back.I am one of the most optimistic guys here but guys retire after a season like LaRoche just had at his age. Why on earth would I want his total suckitude again ? A bounce back ? To what .220/ 300. /420 ? Still sucks and his bat isn't getting any faster. Oh yea right he had an injury which never required a stay on the DL . Garbage excuses. Don't need him at DH when we still have Melky, Avi and Abreu and won't need him even more if we sign Gordon. I also never said or even assumed Garza would be better for the Sox . I actually think it's ugly to even think about . Danks is the better pitcher but it's a 5th starter who knows who's going to be better in 2016. The whole reason why I did all that math and proposed the whole thing is because LaRoche is a huge freakin' anchor messing up the 25 man roster , taking up valuable space. He should do us all a favor and retire. I thought the trade would appeal to the Brewers because they make $3.25M in the proposed trade, get an innings eater who might be the better pitcher than Garza , and they only have to wait until after 2016 to be rid of both of them instead of after 2017 to be rid of Garza. On the Sox side they free up one position player roster spot on the 25 which should mean a lot since they seem to be going for it again and it spreads out the money in crap contracts from 1 year to 2 years. I think out of all the posters I read you are the guy who thinks the most like me so I hope I didn't offend you with anything I said. Merry Christmas !

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 04:28 PM) About 10 years ago I used to post drunken polls. They would offend some, lead to temp bans, and confuse many. Here during the offseason lull... It's time for a revival. Pick one or be forever shamed. All mods... If you even THINK of moving this to another forum, you will receive a mighty rath! However, a pin will lead to a panda bear hug. Don't let your new supermodel GF/wife see this unless of course she's thinks your sense of humor is colorful . Ahh what we love at first often becomes annoying . Keep that in mind .

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 05:31 PM) Garza has good stuff and I just cannot understand how he's become so bad. The problems I see with the Danks for Garza idea are 1) the Sox would be paying him for at least the '16/'17 seasons and possibly '18 and 2) assuming EJ sticks in the rotation, Danks becoming a FA after '16 opens a spot for Fulmer in '17 but if the Sox have Garza they have to try and figure out how to move him to create room for Fulmer. If Garza doesn't improve, he will be difficult to move in a trade, just like Danks has been the last few years. With the way the cost of starting pitching has escalated, Danks is worth pretty close to his '16 salary. One idea could be to trade Danks for perhaps a few low level minor leaguers and try to sign Edwin Jackson on the cheap. I'm not a fan of Jackson by any means but he can be had for relatively cheap which allows the Sox to take the savings and use it towards a FA bat. Jackson seemed to work well with Cooper so it could work, in theory. Not something I would bet the house on, just an idea. 1st you assume Fulmer is ready in '17 . Let's say he is. Garza goes to long relief . That way it's guaranteed he won't reach the goals he needs to to get that 2018 contract . It's doubtful he accomplishes it anyway since he's already behind on the number of starts he would need to make in order for it to vest along with some health goals he could not meet too If they sign one of the Big 3 the budget is shot but not by too much the 1st year from what I proposed. So might as well just sign someone like Jackson because the SP depth sucks anyway. Probably will be plenty of FA's who end up taking 1 year deals.

Seems like this thread was borrowed from page 3 of this thread http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97784 which was LaRoche and Danks for Garza. I broke it all down after having some questions which were answered about Garza's contract on page 4 of that thread. Garza's contract is 2-3 years depending on reaching certain goals in order for his contract to vest for the 3rd year . Most likely his contract will be 2 years totaling $25M. Add up Danks and LaRoche contracts for this year and its $28.75M My take was Sox must throw in around $7M (3.5M in 2016 and same in 2017 )for the Brewers to even consider it . Thus the Sox would be taking on $25M and paying the Brewers $7M for a grand total of $32M while they get rid of $28.75M. So the Sox spend an extra $3.25M to free up salary this year . 32 minus 3.5 minus 12.5 equals $16M saved in 2016 while they take on 3.5 +12.5 =$16M in 2017. They would be getting rid of LaRoche freeing up the DH position for Melky and freeing up a roster spot. Makes the salary of someone like Gordon or Cespedes more palatable at least for the 1st year of the contract. Hahns thing is contracts so he could work the numbers however he wanted to in order to minimize the 2nd year where they are paying Garza $12.5M and the Brewers $3.5M. 1 less DH on the roster full of bad defensive players who might convert to DH is a good thing. Paying a little more than half of LaRoche's salary is better then paying for most of it in another trade or eating the whole thing as a sunk cost. Hahn wanted creative. This is it. Try to get Trayce back from the Dodgers and the Sox have their good defensively backup OF who can play all 3 OF positions while Gordon /Upton/Cespedes will play LF or RF or have Trayce start in CF and move Eaton to LF/RF depending on which of the Big 3 the Sox sign. Melky plays once in a while in LF .

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) Thanks for the numbers crunching on Garza's contract, it doesn't seem as much of an albatross as previously thought. So what scenario would you rather push your chips in on? The possibility of a Laroche bounce back in 2016, or a Garza bounce back in 2016? If the overall money is actually that close on a potential Danks/Laroche for Garza trade, is it worth taking a chance on Garza rebounding to a .500 pitcher with Coop's help in order to opening up the dh role? All predicated on singing one of the big 3 outfielders, of course... Ha wait I crunched the numbers I just needed clarification on how a vesting option works, So now it's 1 year of Danks and 1 one of LaRoche is $28.75M and 2 years of Garza is $25M. It's highly doubtful he accomplishes what's needed to extend his contract to 2018 since he's already behind on the number of games he would need to start for the contract to vest. To make it worth while for the Brewers ( if the Sox found this move attractive) they could throw some cash the Brewers way, maybe $7M ( give them $3.5 M for 2 years )which would be basically half of LaRoche salary. So it would be like trading $32M for 28.75 million , gets LaRoche and Danks off the roster this year and frees up money this year and opens a roster spot. Makes Garza the 5th starter instead of Danks which actually sounds terrifying. Sign Gordon or Cespedes to play LF/RF , move Melky to DH . Trade or send Avi to the minors. He has no place on the team even as a platoon DH since that would make him a 4th OF and 4th OFers should be good defensively. Explore trades for good defensive young guys who can play RF/CF (Jackie Bradley Jr, Inciarte etc.) Hey Trayce Thompson get him back . Maybe the Dodgers take Avi for him . Get some starting pitching depth and see what Matt Albers would take to resign. Sorry Jacob Turner and Kahnle just don't do it for me. End of off season . Playoffs here we come. Payroll goes to hell if I know after all these moves and pretend moves. But it is creative since that's what Hahn keeps saying he needs to be financially.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 10:38 AM) Just realized I created a thread that was pretty much the same as another thread, just worded differently. I am bored, sorry. I saw this thread and was like WTf isn't this my thread about the Sox fallback options in case they don't get one of the Big 3 ?

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 03:55 AM) Here are the terms of Garza's deal 2016, 2017 - $12.5 million per ($2 million deferred due annually on 12/15 between 2018 and 2021 2018 - $13 million vesting option (must make 110 starts between 2014 and 2017, throw 115 IP in 2017 and not be on the DL at the end of 2017) 2018 - $5 million team option (if he doesn't meet the requirements for the vesting option the team holds a $5 million option, there is no buyout) 2018 - $1 million team option (if he spends more than 130 days on the DL in a 183 day window) Bonus - $.5 million each year he makes 30 starts and throws 190 IP Ok so what does all that mean ? He's made 52 starts in 2 years with 2 years left so he probably doesn't reach 110 starts so he becomes a free agent if any one of those 3 requirements are not met right ? Or does that mean if the holder of the contract wants he can be either a free agent or resigned for 2018 for $5M at the team's digression?

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) Thanks for the numbers...I wouldn't touch that either, too many years to start with... It's actually just 2 years 2016 and 2017. Free agent 2018 although I'm not sure what this means in 2018 : $13M Vesting Option $5m team option if vesting terms not met. Maybe means a 5M dollar buyout for 2018. So it's just 2 years for 2 years when it comes down to it and the money is basically equal (Danks 15.75 + LaRoche 13 =28.75M vs. 2 years of Garza for 25 and 5M buyout ? (seems high for a buyout) =30M. It reduces the Sox roster by one DH with a team full of DH's in waiting (Melky, Abreu, Avi) It frees up the salary by about $15M this year and adds more to next year and the buyout money the year after and balances the rotation a bit. The worry is can Garza bounce back or is Danks that much better ? I think the savings this year and the open roster spot isn't too bad of a deal. Garza has had arm problems in the past and was on the DL last year with shoulder tendinitis. Of course the Sox can eat LaRoche's contract or find a taker and pay most of it. Cleveland dumped Chris Johnson and his $17M contract. I am not buying a LaRoche bounce back to the point that he still isn't a liability and the roster could use the flexibility to add a more athletic player .Just too many DH's on the team for the Sox to keep a pretty one dimensional guy like LaRoche. Easiest solution is just eat LaRoche contract instead of worrying about Garza's arm falling off in the next few years or spending significant time on the DL. At least Danks goes out there every 5th day.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 12:44 AM) Last year he played at Petco. Even against superior pitching in the AL, I don't think you lose much of last year's stats, if anything in that transition. That's what worries me. Big ballpark , lots of room for hits and he bats .250 with the lowest OBP of his career ,which can easily translate to .220-230 in the AL . Walking just doesn't bring excitement, big hits do. I just have one eye on what will excite the fans and get them into the ball park. I know Upton has a lot of talent I just don't know how it will play in the AL and with the other 2 it's not a concern.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 08:33 PM) I think Gordon and Cespedes bring a lot of intangibles to the lineup, just in different ways. Cespedes as power hitting destroyer of world's and Gordon as a guy who keeps rally's going. Both are winners and I'd be fine with either one but would prefer Cespedes. Upton is a bum who draws a few walks for bad teams. If we're talking about which one worries me the most it is Upton because of being a career NLer . Gordon and Cespedes know the AL. The Sox really don't need another guy having to adjust to the superior league and hitting way below career norms. They need a guy who can be a hit from day one. Light the fire , have people dancing in the aisles talking about our awesome pair of Cuban powerhouses. Our own Bash Brothers. Pito and La Potencia !

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) I've noticed over the last two seasons that he is quite good at hitting baseballs. He's probably right up there with swings out of the zone too. He's good in that he wants to drive guys home but that got exploited a bit his 2nd year. He needs to be more patient especially if the lineup gets much stronger around him . Take a lesson from the Big Hurt , make the pitchers come to you .

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 07:43 PM) Jermaine Dye's age 32 season is not a reason to go out and sign Gordon. If you're looking at Gordon for 5 years, you are looking at his 32-36 age seasons. Do you really think he is going to be worth the money through the length of that contract? Gordon is an excellent player now, but I fear the last few years of that deal will be a financial burden to the organization because it's rare to see players be able to maintain their level of play into those years. Look at Jimmy Rollins, he'd be an example of a player who is a shell of his former self entering his mid 30's. I'm not arguing that Gordon is a bad pickup, his OBP would look amazing in the Sox lineup. I'd would rather have Upton for the remaining prime years of his career plus his twilight years than Gordon who has the chance to start declining fairly soon. I wasn't basing an argument for Gordon on Dye I was pretty much just reminiscing and saw Dye was 32 with that monster year. If anything ,with how bad Dye's fielding fell off, my reminiscing was more of a case against Gordon. However ,the Fangraphs article someone posted earlier comparing Gordon to players of similar stats did a good job of painting a more optimistic outlook. He has hsi pluses and minus like any of the big 3 . Budget wise he's a much better fit than the other 2 precisely because of his age. His work ethic is beyond compare if you read any of the stuff about how Rusty Kuntz worked with him to convert him from a 3rd baseman to an OF. Made me want to hire Kuntz for Avi. Anyway he's a winner and would bring that work ethic and winning attitude. Not sure if the other guys have that. I've wanted Cespedes because he's just put teams on his back and has elite power and is a pretty good OF according to DRS. My eye test tells me a slightly different story but that's neither here nor there. He just doesn't have the track record of the other 2 because of his late entry into the Majors. But imagine if that was the real Cespedes last year . His 4th year in the bigs ,now accustomed to everything . He has the chance to be a monster the most out of the 3. I want a monster .

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 07:34 PM) Hoping for one of those 3rd period Dallas meltdowns. Ok maybe a 3rd period Hawks meltdown. Blah.

Hoping for one of those 3rd period Dallas meltdowns.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) Really hope this is just the Sox trying to get either Cespedes or Upton's price down. Gordon is a great player, but he is not the player I want the Sox to sign. His age is cause enough for concern for me. Would it help to know Jermaine Dye had the best year of his career with the Sox at age 32 ? I was just looking at Dye's stats from age 32 on . He had some of his best years with the Sox. One of the few guys who was hurt a lot then gets to us and gets healthy and hits more HR for the Sox then he ever had before. We always hear " this guy will hit more HR at the Cell "but we never see it actually happen very much. Even in his last year in the majors at age 35 he hit 27 HRs and a .793 OPS and .340 OBP. Dye had 44 HR's in age 32 season. , 120 RBI , 1.006 OPS, .386 OBP, .662 SLG. , OPS+ 151 Dude could still hit when he retired ( or nobody wanted him). His fielding fell of a cliff if I remember it right . Lost a couple of steps at 33 rebounded a little at 34 but still bad ,then totally lost it a lot more at 35.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:42 AM) I think you overestimate how much money they would have left. Yea I didn't want to dash hopes but maybe with Gordon it's possible to get another starting pitcher but not a SP and another FA OF. And even with Gordon I wouldn't expect anything huge, just insurance with a starting pitcher.