ptatc

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 01:10 PM) The best trainers in the world couldn't prevent Jabari Parker from tearing his ACL a second time and so on and on and on. I can't stress enough how awesome modern medicine and rehab (that ptac is on the cutting edge of) is. That said, (and this will probably be my last post here I think I'm arguing the same point over and over) it's a big data point against Burger that in his 1st big league camp he makes it two weeks before blowing out his achilles. Given all the talk about how he has a "bad body" and just doesn't appear to be a smooth athlete he (imo) didn't have much room for error as far as sticking at 3B and contributing in areas of the game other than hitting. Now there's going to be a ton of pressure on him to hit, hit with power. The injury is at absolute best robbing him of critical development time. Even if he comes back physically 100% there's a big setback to his career here. Actually the latest research shows we can prevent most of these second injuries. How many have you heard about recently? You can always be cynical and sayit may happen. Its true. However, the most likely outcome is that it wont. Sometimes it has to do with follow through with the patient as well.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 12:27 PM) let me put it more clearly: would you become a surgeon if you didn't believe in the efficacy your techniques? of course he believes Burger can come back 100% athletically -- he's in the business of making sure that happens. There is a reason they say the "practice" of medicine not the "science"of medicine. Its a great deal of clinical decision making and educated guessing.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 11:45 AM) It's not a death knell but it's a bad sign that a guy that young ruptured his achilles running to 1st base. ptac knows his s*** but as a trainer he can't help but almost always envision the best case rehab. I'm more of a cynic I've seen too many rehabs, even modern ones, go wrongly and players never fully recovery for whatever reason. I dont look at the best case. I try to point out the most likely. In cases like this Ive seen many more surgeries and rehabs go well than have poor results. Is it possible his career is over? Sure especially with his body type. However, its still more likely that he will be fine.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 10:03 AM) Team physicians, sure. I like ptac, but Burger isn't his patient. My partner is a physician, but doesn't provide a great deal of insight for a subject that isn't a patient. I think many of us draw comparisons to Schwarber for obvious reasons. Trust ptac. he's a good guy. We're just talking baseball here given what we have seen in the past. Odds are ptac is not that only medical professional on this board. Is ptac a team doctor? I'm actually serious. Im not a team doctor. Im a physical therapist and athletic trainer who has worked extensively in pro sports as wel as olympic and amature sports. My opinion is purely basd on experience and results I have seen. Your partner can discuss or not discuss injuries based on experience as well. Im just trying to inform and give the most common and likely result based on experience in sports medicine and and with that injury.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 08:48 AM) To be fair to him, the prognosis improved. At first Burger's career was over. Thats true. A little bit of optimism.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 09:15 AM) Right but I don't expect them to be waiting outside the stadium. Of those 1/3, how many were trying to contend? So how much surplus was available to acquire fairly cheaply. In the last year, 2 WAR or borderline 2 WAR players Evan Longoria, Todd Frazier, Chase Headley and Eduardo Nunez were moved cheaply. There are others that I could imagine would be available for an affordable price. If we need one, we will be able to get one without paying through the teeth. Not sure what stats you are using but Nunez and Headley barely played 3B last year and Nunez had a WAR of .9. Only 5 teams in the MLB last year accumulated 2 WAR at 3B. They aren't that easy to find.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 06:53 AM) So similar to the current TJ timeframes...typically 18 months, sometimes pushing 20-24 months depending on individual circumstances. It’s just a bit strange for a 29 year old to be consigned to 1b/DH for the rest of his career...based on what, I don't know. They are both ligament replacement surgeries, hence the similar time frame. Although, the UCL surgery time frame is a little quicker, in general due to the knee motion being far more complex.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 07:31 AM) Holy s*** what happened in this thread? Apparently, once you're injured you will become a DH.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 01:48 AM) Well, the risk is certainly mitigated going just 3 or possibly 4 years. It's something the medical staff would have to assess carefully, just as they theoretically would have done when they signed Adolfo at the top of his intl class (maybe #2 to Eloy?) or drafted Burger at his size instead of a number of other options. Or taking a pitcher like McClanahan who has already gone through 1 TJ surgery, knowing that 2 is pretty much a death sentence. If he was 32 or 33 instead of 29, I'd agree with you. Just like a TJ surgery rehab takes a full 18 months to be back to form, knee surgeries can often take similar amounts of time (especially for bigger athletes) to get back to 100%. Moustakas was also hurting last year in the 2nd half and tried to play through it, probably because he was more concerned with his final numbers on the offensive side. PTAC has to decide this one, HAHA... An ACL reconstruction shouldnt limit him at 3B. Of course, all surgeries can have complications and some dont return to full activities but the vast majority do. The return to previous level of function is over 90%. Most athletes will return to playing at 9-12 months post-op but theyll tell you the knee doesnt feel normal until 18 months.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 06:49 PM) Does anybody here have a list of pro jocks who recovered from ruptured Achillies? Adam Wainright, Jose Contreras, Kobe Bryant, Chauncey Billups, Dominique Wilkins, Elton Brand. All returned to playing.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 06:10 PM) Same reason Schwarber will never be a catcher (even part time) after his ACL. The margin for error athleticism wise was razor thin. He's going to come back less agile, and he'll have missed a critical 9-15 months of reps. Modern medicine and rehab is a miracle but a ruptured achilles is still a ruptured achilles. He may never regain the athletic timing needed to play 3B. Or hit for that matter. I'm pretty cynical here I'll admit. Yeah, you're being cynical for cynical sake. All of these things are possible if there is a great deal of scarring. The odds of any of them happening are pretty low.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 02:13 PM) Any chance he had of being a 3B is gone IMO. What will this injury do that will cause him to not play 3B?

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 01:52 PM) That actually sounds pretty easy to find. For instance, the white sox had 2 of them. That's weird. Since there were only 19 in all of the MLB that means 1/3 of all teams didn't have one. That doesn't sound easy to find to me. But I was never good at math.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 02:13 PM) Cordell had a leadoff single in the first, nothing else. Well it is difficult to get two ABs in an inning.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 09:52 AM) Why are people so opposed to Moustakas, but seemed to really dig signing a 30 year old catcher to a 2 year deal, which certainly doesn't fit with the rebuild? Having a veteran catcher to work with the young pitchers gives him an advantage.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 09:13 AM) But the point that I would make is even if we dont find a big upgrade in 2019 I have 100% confidence we can find a 2 WAR 3b either internally, FA, or trade. I know people think Moustakas is more than that, I don't, and so we may as well wait and just get the younger version in 2 years. There were only 19 2 WAR 3b last year. They aren't easy to find.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 12:58 PM) Not going to lie, I don't think he will ever be a productive major leaguer after this injury. I really hope I am wrong though His production should not be limited by the injury.

QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 12:38 PM) Will this limit him from future 3B play? Most likely no. Other than 1B, it's probably the position that would have the least impact.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 11:16 AM) Are there any MLB position players who came back from this and were productive? Off the top of my head, i can't think of any who have had the injury.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 11:05 AM) The prognosis for athletes is not great coming back from an Achilles tear. I wish him the best, but sadly I do not feel like we can realistically consider him a core part of our future plans anymore. Anything he provides the mlb club moving forward would purely be a bonus. At his age, I have full confidence he'll return. There's never a guarantee but I would bet one of Greg's houses on it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 08:04 AM) Even so, isn't it a bit odd someone his age did this? I'm sure the vast majority of 22 year olds who are not professional athletes lack the proper prep when exercising, yet they are in gyms, running on trails, playing hoops every day, and it doesn't blow. It seems to me an injury that normally occurs a little later. I hope this isn't a sign Burger has an old body. Very odd but his body type is the most susceptible at any age.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 07:25 AM) I would think the training staff is working on flexibility with these kids because thats something that generally contributes to the repeated injury of something like this. I have no doubt that they are. Flexibility is the key in most baseball activities.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 03:21 AM) Guy needs to lose weight. Get him swimming laps in the pool I doubt he’ll be running anytime soon. Laps in the pool can be really hard on the shoulders for baseball players, position players less than pitchers obviously. They'll get him going on the zero G or underwater treadmills ASAP after surgery, if he needs surgery.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 27, 2018 -> 12:01 AM) I'm the DIII version of burger, have the exact type build and looked the same damn way on the field. "tight muscles" is a good way to describe it. I think he trained the wrong way this offseason. Easy to say in retrospect but he would have been better served not bulking up and just getting lean. I'm sure his legs where tight here in the 2nd week of workouts. Hopefully the Sox can monitor these guys' workloads, especially the under 23 set, and try and prevent these type of injuries in the future. There's nothing wrong with working out that way as long as you add the flexibility exercises to this. I'm sure the sox strength coaches made sure he knew this. If he followed it, thats on him. It may just be that he had issues in the past and it finally caught up to him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 26, 2018 -> 09:31 PM) Sounds like we’re not getting an update until tomorrow. I’m not optimistic at the moment. You would think a ruptured Achilles would be pretty easy to diagnose though. Could be a partial tear. From everyones description is sounds worse though.