ptatc

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) I disagree with both of you. The idea that it had no value to the player is questionable. Knowing what we know now, they should have not signed and it was a discount. Knowing what we knew then: - Sale was dominant but still very questionable on his durability. He got an immediate raise and guarantee of a certain amount in majors. - Eaton also was injury prone. And after one good year they gave him immediate raise and discounted FA years - Quintana, a pitcher out of nowhere to have a really good two years with no stuff. Same as above. For the players and clubs, they get certainty over the next 6 years or so, with the exchange of some risk. Not every player will want that, but these will still happen. There will always be a few players who will sign them for the reasons you stated. However, I think with the current climate in MLB there will be fewer.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 08:20 AM) MONDAY, 7:09am: The deal is complete, pending a physical, reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. The deal will be for two years and $21MM. Morrow will earn $9MM in 2018 and 2019, with a $3MM buyout or a $12MM vesting option for the 2020 season. A little off topic but when you think about the deals, it still amazes me. I know I'm old but he is getting paid at least 6 million dollars AAV to perform for 60 times per year at most. Last year he pitched in 45 games. I know it's nothing compared to most but it is crazy if you think about the numbers.

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) I would think it's the exact opposite. Throwing 6 innings is more stressful than one inning two straight days. Rodon to me seems destined for the bullpen. You're right the game volume would be better in the pen. however that isn't the real stress for the pen. it's the warming up on short notice and warming up repeatedly throughout a game but not going in. Some players transition nicely into it. However it would be taking a big chance on a pitcher who has always started and coming off surgery to adapt. they could make him a long reliever only but that would be a waste of his talent, unless he shows the surgery has dropped him to this level.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 07:50 AM) the TINSTAAPP Thing is not totally wrong. pitching prospects are more risky (mostly due to injuries though) and the writers now tend to give the pitchers a slight bump down (also in the Surplus value lists) but going all in on hitting isn't really working anymore. it worked for the cubs because as you said they could buy pitching and also got a Little lucky with Hendricks and arrieta but a lot of Teams have preferred hitting prospects in the last years which inflated the Price of pitching and dropped the value of hitters (especially the classic high on base Corner slugger). there is more Attrition with pitchers but as an acquiring Team you have to pay that Price in trades. even the cubs paid a huge Price for chapman, Quintana and other guys. ideally you would have hitting prospects but you still eventually Need the pitching and if you have to buy it it is going to be expensive. Never really has.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 03:50 AM) frazier has some contact issues but so does moncada and many other prospects. frazier still has a top30 prospect last year. I would not trade eloy or moncada for him of course but kopech and almost any other sox prospect I would probably do in a 1 for 1 trade since especially kopech and other pitchers are a really big risk too. using just ops to judge prospects also isn't a good way. Tyler White (astros dude) has produced a 900 OPS at every Level and he still rightfully never was a top100 prospect. results are important but top prospects have Tools and he has a lot of them and it isnt like he never hit at all. You never trade top pitching for just hitting. Teams always need pitching. You always need to include at least a good pitching prospect in return for top pitching.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 03:42 AM) most Windows for non big market Teams are open like 3-4 years. technically you have 6 years of control and often 6.5 when you manage Service time smartly but usually not everyone arrives or Peaks at the same time plus many Teams have to trade starts with 1 to 1.5 years left to get back some value and Keep the Thing going. to Keep a 5+ year window you either Need to make some clever extensions (like the sox did with sale), have some luck with the farm and produce good Players despite low draft picks and Talent traded to stuff holes or you have a huge payroll to extend guys. extensions like sale will be harder to get by though- at least for the top guys (guys like anderson will continue to sign them and not take their Chance) as the Players and agents have realized how bad those are for the Players. there is of course the injury risk and getting nothing but stars also have other means to make Money (advertisements...). Not the least of which is the fact that the sox traded the 3 players who gave them the "hometown" discount. What player will want to give a discount when all it really did was make them a more valuable chip for trading. By signing the deal they actually make themselves more likely to be traded. That is the opposite of signing a deal to stay with the current team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 07:34 AM) That's how I remember it. The problem was that it was leaked early and the Marlin got ticked so Detroit had the chance to up the offer. The rumors were that Ozzie leaked it because of his close relationship with Cabrera but no one knew for sure. That's what I remember, however I am getting old and it could be an imaginary scenario.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 09:38 PM) People keep saying this based on their gut feelings but the last time I did a round of this, it seemed like the same number of busts were showing up in the top 100 most years. Yes. Baseball will always be the toughest sport to draft. There are just too many variables because the game is actually different and the young age of the draftees.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 07:25 AM) I like seeing it, I just wish we were moving up the draft board a little bit. We clearly need WR help, badly, and probably some OL and LB. There just isnt a ton of guys you would draft top ten in those positions, outside of maybe Williams at tackle. They really need help at CB too. Fuller was mauling people yesterday and they weren't calling it. There have been games where he would have had multiple PI penalties.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) Carson Wentz might of tore his ACL. Sure looked like it from the tests they did on the field.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) Bears offense looks decent this drive too, lots of penalities though Trubiskey doesn't smile on the sidelines. i don't think he has the passion for the game.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) Older fans remember the K.C. A's being a major league "farm" team for the Yankees. (Roger Maris among a number of other guys who went on to star in New York). Now it's the Marlins. The more things change the more they stay the same. As always $$$ talks and BS walks and the Yankees always have the most money to be able to do things. Yeah. I don't where people say things are changing. The teams with the most money will always get the best players and will always have the best chance to win. Until a salary cap is put in.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) While Anderson was very raw...I think Mitchell and Walker were primarily speed guys and still think that Achilles injury f***ed Mitchell...Hawkins just never came along...too raw It wasn't an Achilles. that would have been easy to fix. It was the posterior tibialis tendon. Those are really difficult to return from.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 06:23 PM) Trading away top prospects for a guy who will likely be a free agent in one year sounds as counter productive as it gets. There is zero fit for the Sox to trade for him. I think the only way a deal gets done is if he agrees to an extension.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 05:29 PM) Seems like its a stabilization fusion, which means he should be ok off of the field. At least, im hoping. He's an awesome dude. Yeah. must've had a fracture to vertebrae in his lumber spine. He should be fine health wise as they aren't reporting any paralysis but who knows. i don't think he'll be playing again. Fusion for disc injuries is one thing. This is in a different league.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:22 AM) I'm a mess. I have Lamar Miller, Ingram, and now Burkhead, but also Alfred Morris. I'm shuffling and scrambline. Down 10 heading into 2nd week of semifinal. I'm screwed. I have Miller as well. I'm hping he does well against SF with all of the other runners for Houston hurt.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) Frankly, yes. The Minnesota Star Tribune had a piece on that in their op-ed page as sort of a "last straw" piece last week saying he was right on the verge of not being able to do his job in the Senate during the tax bill because he was off replying to allegations. Again this is purely based on allegations and is it fair? everyone around made it impossible for him to do his job. It has nothing to do his ability to do his job as his skills as a negotiator, deal maker or anything else. It's pure based on other people dealing with him. While all of it is accurate it doesn't mean it's right. I also know none of it will change. But it just irritates me that it's really more about maintaining the power base rather than truly convicting the people who deserve it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:44 AM) This is the key part. Even if he maintains his innocence, even if an ethics committee couldn't find hard proof (and what would that even look like in this case beyond what we already know?), he had clearly lost the confidence of his colleagues. This is one of the highest profile political positions in the country, and perception and public/colleague confidence is crucial to your ability to serve. This is where I'm skeptical. Did the others really lose confidence in his ability do his job? I doubt it. They knew he was making to party look bad and wanted to distance themselves from him. This has nothing to do with his ability as a Senator and everything to do with public perception and they fact that they might lose his seat in the next election if he wasn't replaced. It's the same thing that the Republicans are doing with Moore. It's all about maintaining power, instead of truly punishing the people who are gulity.

QUOTE (KagakuOtoko @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:53 AM) Normal this is true. Most politicians have skeletons in their closet. That being said, the last thing we need is a a politician with a very suspect history of being a predator with more power. I agree. If the number of allegations are real, he would get convicted which is what should happen. He should not be allowed to skate away with just a resignation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) You're somewhat right - the Congress needs to develop a better way to deal with this and a clear path by which this can be treated as an ethics violation. If that isn't done, it does set up an opportunity for someone to do a James O'Keefe setup where they try to bring down a Congressperson based on false accusations. There are unfortunately, a number of other issues with this though, including the fact that Congress has made it nearly impossible to report harassment by their members, and the fact that you can't really set up something like this that would police Congress without having to deal with the dozen+ credible claims against the President. At some point, Al Franken had to go and yesterday's was the straw that broke the camels back. Even if some of these are invented, there's photographic evidence of a couple of them, and he was not going to be in a position to do his job or represent the people of Minnesota any more. This is exactly the case that needs to be made. He is maintaining he did nothing wrong but because of public pressure he is resigning. This is a cop out arrangement. If he is truly innocent, this is the wrong way to handle it. If he is guilty he should be prosecuted. With Moore they are truly going to let public opinion determine his fate With Fraken they basically did the same thing. The party didn't think he was going to be effective going forward so they forced him to resign. The GOP still thinks Moore can be effective so they let him go on.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:37 AM) I say yes. For one, congress shouldn't be about any one person. It is a house of our government that features, yes, senators and congressmen and congresswomen, but aides and other professional staff. This is a public job and anyone shoud be able to work there without being harrassed. And any person should be able to be on a trip with those people without being harrassed. So when they behave that way, they should lose their job just like anyone at my company that would behave that way should. If there are isolated incidents its one thing, but no one in any position should get to just run roughshod over other people just because they can. The institution is more important than the person. I agree with all of this. Everyone should their chance to tell their story. however, it appears that once allegations are leveled there is pressure for them to resign without them being able to defend themselves. No doubt that many of them should resign if they are true and many seem to be admitting it. If this is the case the should be forced to resign and prosecuted. However, they should also be afforded the chance to defend themselves and shouldn't be forced to resign, if they deny the allegations and want to fight it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:29 AM) It's a political position and if the political tides turn against you and you can no longer effectively serve, you should resign. Look at HHS Sec. Tom Price earlier this year. He abused government travel funds to fly private jets all over the country. I don't think anything he did was technically illegal, but it was a bad look for the administration politically, so he was forced to resign over it. That comes with the territory of holding a political office. Abuse of government funds would fall under the ethics rules and would set him up for prosecution. However, this is another case where they weren't "allegations." They have proof of what he did and would have grounds against him. He would have no basis to fight the charges. I'm sure he could've fought it but knew he would ose. However, he should have the opportunity to fight it. I know it won't change just based on the public perception of the issues. However, it doesn't mean it's right depending on evidence.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:27 AM) Al Franken will never go to trial. He'll go home and have to answer to his family at most. Someday he may write another book for all we know. That's the world we live in - the stuff he did is such a small crime that you can do worse and be President of the United States. But is it worthy of destroying his career and any good he may have done in public service if it's not worthy of a trial? How do you determine this without some sort of measure? It's a slippery slope of doing this based on allegations. He, of course will need to answer to his family.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:19 AM) Resigning because you've disgraced yourself or your office and are facing political pressure is nothing new, whether it's for sexual misconduct (Franken) or abusing government funds (Price, earlier this fall). When a person is facing a litany of unconnected accusers telling similar stories with at least some amount of evidence, they should absolutely be forced out. These women had pictures with Franken and all told similar stories, showing a clear pattern (and there are probably more). Moore's accusers have written notes from him and he was banned from the mall--he should never disgrace the Senate with his presence. Trump's faced numerous accusers and bragged on tape about sexually assaulting women. Farenthold settled a case using public funds, just like Conyers (and, honestly, probably a lot of others. Not everything worthy of a resignation rises to the level of a successful criminal prosecution. I know it's nothing new but that also doesn't mean it's right. If someone is insisting it's a false case, they should have the opportunity to defend themselves. If they admit it or settle, they should resign. If they win the court case they should not have to resign. I'm not should I agree that not everything worthy of resignation rises to the level of a successful prosecution.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) Do you think that there are people who played professional baseball in MLB who used steroids and did not get caught? Sure. But you can't go back and prove that they did or didn't take them because they weren't put on trial. These people will go to trial. You will have evidence if they committed a crime.