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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:15 PM) So looking at the Indians proves Hahn deserves no credit for his deals. The ridiculousness will never end. I'm going to have to switch my "Unbelievable......" posts to every time someone blames Hahn for something.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) Everyone is exhausted talking about Ventura...and this whole Shields debacle (so far) has almost forced everyone to start looking up higher on the food chain. JR is the only one who knows who was the biggest advocate and pushed the hardest for Shields. Maybe KW, maybe Hahn...I doubt it was 50/50 an equal presentation from both execs when they made that pitch to JR. Obviously, no one else works at a place where multiple people sit a a table with coffee and a few pastries and actually discuss things. They all give their views and discuss positives and negatives and then come to a decision. The decision is rarely all one persons idea or thought. Then the highest ranking person in the room (KW here) will take that decision up to the next level (JR here) for final approval.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) Theo gave $52 million to Edwin Jackson. He gave over $100 million to Carl Crawford. He supposedly is a genius. Hahn has had a ton of guys not work out, and IMO the verdict is still out with him. But when you are signing guys at the price level he is signing them, many are not going to work out. I didn't realize that pushing everyone to get off the "KW is the cause of all evil" for the White sox would turn to "Hahn is the cause of all evil." I guess people still don't get that they work TOGETHER.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:05 PM) You think the big hang up in selling is that they would only make $780M? The 1B is what Forbes projected the team was worth. The cubs sold for around that number. i don't think the Sox would get that.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) JR has laughed at those estimates saying that they have no idea how much he really owns. "Reinsdorf reportedly owned 4 percent to 5 percent of the team at the beginning but has gradually increased his stake. Four partners told the Tribune that Reinsdorf now owns 14 percent. Reinsdorf said that figure is "significantly understated" but declined to provide another amount. "No partner knows what I own," Reinsdorf said"" http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07...chael-reinsdorf OK. The question remains, who do you think he would sell to? I think it's sold after he dies. He will always own the team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) If JR wanted to sell the team, the team goes on the block. If every other shareholder wanted to sell the team and JR didn't, the team wouldn't be for sale. I think JR dies as an owner of the White Sox. And his son really wouldn't mind taking his dad's job. All those hoping a Mark Cuban buys the team, forget it. Besides, if you added up the net worth of all the White Sox partners, it would be a pretty impressive amount. I would agree with this. He continually talks about his love of baseball and I think he will own the team until he dies. After that it will be interesting to see who buys it.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) I definitely think the team is sold before 2019. Just looking at the way the dominoes are falling: The number of dollars committed drops precipitously in 2019 down to $26M. It also coincides with what the Sox were saying over the winter that they wanted players on a two year deal at the max. A low salary threshold makes the team more appealing to an incoming buyer as they have fewer financial obligations after paying a kings ransom for the team. A new TV deal will take affect in 2019, this will increase the bottom line for the team and get JR a lot more money (perhaps) if he gets a deal along the lines of what other teams have been getting. I think that JR's push right now to get the team into contention is to try and boost TV numbers to use in negotiations to get a better deal. JR has mentioned that he does not want his family to continue in baseball long term. JR lost his friend and comrade Bud Selig as commissioner and actively campaigned against Manfred. I think JR sees baseball going in a way he doesn't approve (labor costs) and realizes his allies are dwindling among the owners. All of that leads to me coming to the conclusion that JR isn't long for the Sox. It also would likely prevent the Sox from trading Sale as he is the type of player that a new franchise owner would love to have on his new franchise. Do you think JR sells to the other owners or do they all sell? Forbes estimates he owns 19% of the team. He wouldn't really benefit much personally from a sale.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 08:44 PM) I think this certainly comes from Cooper. Most pitchers lose velocity after Coop works with them for a while. Maybe it's time to try a fresh approach with White Sox pitchers. It's not that they lose velocity. It's a philosophy of taking some off the fastball to get it more movement. 93 with movement is better than 97 straight as an arrow. also, always trying to throw hard puts a great deal of strain on the elbow. So it's not that they "lose" it. It's done with a purpose. The problem with Rodon is the same when they drafted him. with his lack of follow through and finishing pitches, he has a difficult time being consistent and commanding the strike zone. He gets beat on the slower fastballs because he is behind in the count all the time and needs to throw fastballs.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jun 16, 2016 -> 11:58 AM) If Shields can round back into being a 4 ERA type guy, you can move this contract. Teams will still need pitching, he just has to improve...some. If he becomes that. they won't want to move him. Those are very good stats for a 9 mil. pitcher.

Ivan Calderon! His spirit will inspire and instill the confidence this team needs

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 09:14 PM) What the hell is a FUBAR? Military term, at least that's where I first heard it. F'd Up Beyond All Recognition.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 11:26 AM) It is beyond silly to think Renteria taking over was the reason for the win. How did the team do in Robin's other ejections after he left? Edit, now 3-0 when Robin gets the boot, and they score a minimum 8 runs.But, it wouldn't surprise me if Robin wasn't running the game anymore. I know it's been baseball tradition where the manager still runs the game from the clubhouse, but I do know when Ozzie would get ejected, he left the park. I had a couple people tell me they were drinking with him watching the game on TV at Carmichael's after he had been ejected. Maybe they are lying, but I don't know why they would. Maybe they won because of the fire and intensity RV showed by standing up for his team. You can spin it anyway you want.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 09:04 AM) Got fed up with this game at 6-0, so in honor of that score I watched Buehrle's perfect game on my DVR and pretended it was live. I monitored the real game on my phone and I'm pretty sure the mojo from watching the perfecto is what caused the comeback. EDIT: Just remembered that the perfect game was 5-0. Leaving the error in. I must live with my shame. As good of a reason as Renteria managing the last few innings.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 10:33 AM) The funny part is that when a manager gets ejected, they still manage. They just do it from the clubhouse instead of the bench. There is no doubt Ventura made all of the play calls from his ejection to the end of the game. No this cannot be correct. There is no communication available that would allow RV to talk to Renteria or Cooper. This game was won solely because the aura of Renteria was sitting quietly on the bench projecting confidence.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) .How is how you hit with RISP a stupid stat ? Again . Support your case . Use some type of argument besides , "duhhh it's stupid " . So your stat has nothing to do with anything. The bases could be empty, he could be leading off the inning. . I think mine has a little more substance to it.When a team can't hit runs anytime matter just not from the 7th inning on. This is the issue with looking at stats in general. You can manipulate them any way you like to make a point. What one person thinks is important, another does not. This is the issue with WAR and many of those other overall numbers. The people who created them created it with what they though was important. So they are biased toward that line of thinking.

QUOTE (GhostofDickeyKerr @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 04:37 PM) And people like you are why JR can run an organization into the ground for 35 years without consequence. I really hate that he is the only owner since 1920 to win a world series. If people only read the Comiskey biography. JR is a saint and a great boss compared to him.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 03:43 PM) No, they relied on Wrigley Field. That too.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) Renteria would be the interim and I'd be fine with that. I don't know what they'll do in the offseason. My guess is Sandy Alomar is next. I like it as well. I've met but don't know hum well. He really impressed me when he turned down the bench coach here, not wanting to look like he was waiting for RV to fail and take his job. Even though in reality, no matter where he was this is probably the case.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) I agree that the Sox have the best uniform/hat in baseball but I don't think that's going to be enough to entice a new generation of fans--they suck, but they have cool stuff! The Cubs relied on that for decades.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) He was fine with the Cubs. The only reason they got rid of him is Joe Maddon. So his qualifications of being a real MLB manager is 1 season of being fine with the Cubs. They may want to aim for higher than that.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) Ventura isn't a major league manager. At least with Renteria, we know that he is one. Won't always agree with any manager but knowing we have an actual manager will be great. A lot of its on the players and I understand that. How do you know this? He was a manager for 1 year.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) JR brings everyone in, at the end of the day, not a single exec is going to get hired without his approval. One of the larger issues I have with JR is that he just shuffles the chairs on the ship rather than bringing in guys from the outside with fresh perspectives and approaches. Yes, Hahn and Hostetler are relatively new at their jobs, but their bosses in their former positions are still the same people they are reporting to today and still have as much input to the conversations as they had with their old positions. To me what is not working is having too many opinions at the top which creates a Frankenstein approach to running an organization. JR approves everyone. He doesn't go out, recruit and decide who to bring in. Everything else is true. There are people there from before. however, as I said it's not like Hahn is brand new, he has a working relationship with KW and if he didn't think it would work he would have left. I like the new direction they seem to be heading. I think they all had a hand in it and it could work. There a few questions if they decide to change the front office. 1. if you like the draft, what will happen to Hostetler? Can he work with the new GM?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) I'm not really comfortable with an extra-judicial and unchallengable "watch list" that prohibits you from exercising your constitutional rights, and there's lots of documented problems with the No-Fly list. Guys like Adam Lanza and Jared Loughner were never on the FBI radar. Omar had an active license to carry a gun as part of his job (though his current position was unarmed). A "no-guns" list would not prevent these sorts of tragedies. Hey, we agree on something somewhat political!

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 12:10 PM) I remember reading/seeing this town hall a few weeks ago. The timing is unreal. “I just came from a meeting today in the situation room, in which I’ve got people who we know have been on ISIL websites, living here in the United States, U.S. citizens,” Obama said at the town hall, using another name for the Islamic State group. “And we’re allowed to put them on the no-fly list when it comes to airlines, but because of the National Rifle Association, I cannot prohibit those people from buying a gun.” “This is somebody who is a known ISIL sympathizer, and if he wants to walk into a gun store or a gun show right now and buy as many weapons and ammunition as he can, nothing’s prohibiting him from doing that even though the FBI knows who he is,” the president said. The scenario Obama described as a possibility has now come true. Omar Mateen, 29, bought a semi-automatic rifle and a handgun less than a week before he killed around 50 people at a gay nightclub in Florida. Mateen had been investigated by the FBI twice — once in 2013 and again in 2014 — but was still legally allowed to obtain the weapons. So what you're saying is that anyone who is investigated should be banned from flying and buying weapons. I'm going to have to disagree. convicted of a felony, yes. Investigated with no charges, arrest or convictions, no.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) I really don't feel like the problem is Hahn. I think the problem is that JR has brought in a new group of decision makers like Hahn and Hostetler and kept the old guard around Williams, Lauman, and Bell, which just leads to having too many cooks in the kitchen and and a hybrid philosophy to running an organization that doesn't really excel at anything. The problem probably isn't RV, but there are not a lot of other moves to be made to get the ship righted at this point. I am so ready for JR to move on from this team. He has mentioned that he wants his family to get out of baseball so I wish he would just hurry up and do it. could be partially true. although, KW and Hahn worked together for years before so you would think they worked well together as they both had chances to leave the situation but didn't. Also, JR didn't bring Hostetler, KW and Han did, so again you would think that they would work together. I think this past draft has signified a new direction for the group. The recent past way wasn't working so they decided to change it. thisd is some of what I don't get about the KW issues people have he has shown the ability to change his thought process when something isn't working. He tried the safe college picks, didn't get results. Changed to high upside picks to find a superstar, didn't work. Brought in Hahn to lead more, didn't work. So now they've brought in Hostetler to change it up. He needed to let each step take a few years to see if it would work or not. He really has shown the ability of a good executive. now the point can be made that they want to go in a new direction and change leadership because all all of them are hired to be fired.