Dam8610

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 02:45 PM) Why would Rockies want Avi, they have a crowded outfield as is. Parra, Blackmon, Tapia, Desmond, Cargo, and David Dahl just started a rehabbed assignment and could be back in a few weeks. I think they have more pressing needs. Why do they want J.D. Martinez?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) Aren't there a lot of scouts that think McMahon won't stick at 3B? Everything I've read on him indicates he's very athletic and a good defender. BA said he was the best defensive 3B in the SAL in 2014. His chances of sticking at 3B are severely limited in Colorado by this guy named Nolan Arenado, you may have heard of him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 02:00 PM) There aren't many better prospects out there. The only better one from Colorado is Rodgers, and that would be an overpay. Yep, not many 3Bs out there with 30+ HR, 10%+ BB, ~20% K potential and good defense. He would be a fine return, I'd think, for Avi. He and Tapia would have my head spinning.

They sold ridiculously high on Eaton. That trade has the potential to produce 3 TOR starters for the White Sox. That trade has the potential to be a Herschel Walker type trade, the other two don't.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 12:32 PM) I'm not a McMahon fan, would definitely want something better. McMahon plays 3B (and is therefore blocked by Arenado) and is destroying AAA pitching at 22. Yes, it's the PCL, but he's hitting nearly .400 with an OPS near 1.100 and he produced a .926 OPS with a .326 average in AA before that, all while maintaining a sub 20% K rate over nearly 400 PAs. If the return is too light, I'd be happy to get an arm with upside in addition to him, but McMahon seems like a player to target to me. Or maybe you can talk them out of McMahon and Tapia, that would be a coup.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) Here's what I'm hoping happened. Sox/Red Sox agreed on a Frazier deal pending physicals. Yanks (who have had interest in Frazier) placed a call to discuss a corresponding move--likely DRob and found out that our deal hit a snag. Then immediately started inquiring about adding Frazier to a DRob deal to help them instead and to block him from going to Boston. SO...instead of simply picking a different prospect from Boston and completing the deal, we switched our focus to the Yankees, who I believe have a MUCH more attractive prospect situation with who they have and the upcoming roster crunch they are facing. That's why the talk has calmed down on the Boston side of things and other names are starting to come into play (Lowrie) for them. I'm crossing my fingers HARD in hopes we can land a couple of players from the Yankees system. To get DRob, some of those names are already in play in talks...I just like that situation much better for us. Maybe I'm on an island. Hopefully Frazier and Robertson/Kahnle goes to one of them, Robertson/Kahnle goes to the other, and the White Sox end up with 3-4 quality prospects out of it, 2-3 of which are hitters.

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 09:58 PM) Was crunching the numbers today and Avi and JD Martinez have had identical per-game WAR numbers this year (both on pace for 5.2 over a full 162 game season). Hard to believe with how well JD is mashing. Shows you how insane Avi's defensive progress has been and how important that is to his value. Also makes me wonder if teams like the Diamondbacks/Rockies that are pursuing JD will look heavily at Avi. Those are young teams and he actually fits the window way better. Rockies are interested in Martinez. Avi for McMahon?

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 07:30 PM) I may be biased but I'll say the Sox. The depth is insane, and 36% of the top 11 is unreal Who has 4 of the top 11?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 06:18 PM) Who is the best pitcher the Braves could have offered? Allard or Soroka? Anderson? Don't know their system very well...and obviously not considering anyone (Newcomb) on their current big league roster. So there's basically no way to combine Albies with any of those pitchers and beat the Cubs' package, unless they added a third fairly significant piece (like the Sale deal) to the package. I think Albies, Allard/Soroka, and two other non-zero MLB chance pieces would've been better than the Cubs trade. But I can also see why you might take the topheavy package in that scenario.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 06:00 PM) Albiese plus Acuna would have made the Braves offer far and away better than the Cubs Ablies plus a bottom top 100 guy puts the Braves offer in the same ball park, such that it isn't "far and away" better. I doubt Albies + Acuna was on the table, because I'd take those two alone over the Cubs trade.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 04:55 PM) I can guarantee that whatever else was on the table, as a whole, was not as good as the Cubs offer. How do I know? Because the Sox chose the Cubs offer. That's a good point, but my question relates more to the margin between this offer and others. I'd really hate Q giving the Cubs a whole lot more market share over the next three years because of Bryant Flete, who will probably never make it to MLB, for example.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 04:53 PM) There is absolutely nothing stating that was an offer. There may not be, nor was I stating there was, I'd just like some basis behind the "far and away" claim.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 04:36 PM) There was doubt we were going to get Brinson from insiders with extremely close sources. The following prospects would have beat out Jimenez going by MLB Pipeline. - Moncada - Torres (Yankees weren't parting with) - Rosario (Mets weren't buying) - Crawford (Phillies aren't buying) - Robles (Nats weren't in it for Q) - Meadows (Pirates weren't gonna give him up) - Albies - this is the only one that there was smoke to and while you always go for talent when it's as close as Albies/Jimenez, we had a much stronger need for a power hitting OF. That's one player, not an offer. An offer is the entire package. For example, the Braves could've put together something like Albies, Allard/Soroka, two non-irrelevant pieces, and that would've far surpassed what was acquired for Q. Another team could've put together a package that may not have been as topheavy, but actually gave the White Sox four players with a decent-strong possibility of contributing in MLB someday instead of two. I'd really like to know what else was on the table.

I keep reading that this deal was "by far" the best offer on this thread. Does anyone have any empirical proof of this? Because if the Cubs actually gave the biggest return by a wide margin, then it wasn't a bad deal. I'd really like to see some sort of proof of that, though.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 10:13 AM) If they are getting swarzak, kahnle and robertson with sox eating some of his contract then robles has to be in play. I'd rather have Soto, Kieboom, and an arm or two.

Probably a guy they flip for prospects if he performs well enough.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:21 PM) It really doesn't matter what the lists say, it is what your scouting think. I know that, but the justification given was "Soto is Top 20", so a list that has him at 95 is a pretty strong counterargument in that case. I think Roberson, Kahnle, Swarzak for Soto, Kieboom, Fedde makes a lot of sense for both sides. Nats need 3 arms in their bullpen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) Easily Nats. Soto is a top 20 guy, you aren't getting him for a reliever Also, didn't one of the lists barely have Soto Top 100?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) Cubs had the young players to survive that and Chapman is a game-changer Is there a better closer on the market than Robertson?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) Easily Nats. Soto is a top 20 guy, you aren't getting him for a reliever See: Torres, Gleyber

Robertson, Kahnle, Swarzak for Soto, Kieboom, Fedde. Who says no?

I'd say 2020, but I also think they're going to have to be players in the post 2018 free agency class to make that happen. Hopefully everything breaks right developmentally with the current crop of prospects as well as the 2018 and 2019 Top 5 selections. If that's the case, competitiveness in 2020 will become dominance by 2022 or 2023.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 02:01 PM) Yes I WILL cut off my nose to spite my face That's what they just did...

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 01:54 PM) I'm not so certain about that. Some scouts recently said Jimenez could end up being better than Moncada. Cease has been rocketing up prospects lists and features two plus pitches already. If the changeup develops he has frontline potential. Moncada + Kopech + Basabe + Diaz is a little bit better, but not by miles, than Jimenez + Cease + Rose + Flete I'd say we got 85-90% of the value we received for Sale, which is all we could ever hope for. The Cubs should've paid Chris Sale price for Jose Quintana is my point. And no, not because of "some silly rivalry", but because of the additional revenue and market share loss the Sox will suffer as a result of this trade, all of which is going to go directly to the Cubs.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 01:30 PM) Dude. We got Eloy Jimenez, a consensus top 10 mlb overall prospect. Huge power potential. Dylan Cease has very good stuff and is only 21 years old. Add him into our mix of exciting young arms. The other two are lotto tickets. Quintana is an excellent pitcher, but we got a massive return...nearly as much as we did for Sale. Not really, Basabe and Diaz at least had some projection to them. Matt Rose is a 1B with low average and high K issues, not to mention an OBP below .300. Bryant Flete is a half step from org filler. Jimenez and Cease are exciting, but this is nowhere near the Sale package (as Jimenez and Cease are essentially Moncada-lite and Kopech-lite), and that's what the Cubs should've had to pay.