Princess Dye

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:31 AM) Or he's our 4th outfielder off the bench, which is better than Danks IMO. De Aza on the bench? Viciedo only out slugs him by a small amount, career wise. Meanwhile ADA has him beat on ....handling LF, OBP, speed. And is a lefty bat.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:23 AM) I still think Hector is a little high a price for Easton. I say Danks =$$ instead. Hector spending a little time above his promised land last year.......and Eaton spending a little time below it last year...... ........is why we even have a shot at this. I'm on board. Do it. LHP is a surplus, and we have a need for a ready-now guy with great ceiling.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:05 PM) Gardner may cost a 3rd or 4th starter only... Would Danks for Gardner plus a prospect be worth it? If we could sign him long term? Per MLBtr: Andy McCullough of the Star-Ledger (Twitter link) hears from rival executives that the most likely return for the Yankees in a Gardner deal would be a No. 4 starter. A No. 3 would be a "great get," according to those execs Danks for Gardner straight up even is probably a reach for the Sox, let alone with more thrown in When they say '3rd or 4th starter'.......they mean lower total money than what Danks makes.

It would be interesting to see a study about the effects of trading away a guy who can win you Games 1, 4, 7 in a series. Seems like the sort of thing where you HAVE to declare yourself not one iota of win-now in order to do it. And we may be at that point. But seeing as how we just signed a 26 year old to big money, it seems like we aren't of that mindset. It seems the Sox want to win a world series in, say, 2015. So if that really is the true aim, then Sale stays. You can trade Sale for an amazing haul and then find you traded Sale for 5 Gordon Beckhams. So it really is a franchise-defining stand when you do this-- but the Abreu contract already was a stand in a different direction from that..........in my view.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) I don't trade Danks. Selling low on someone who has minimal value right now? Doesn't make sense. Let him build his value back up. Agreed. A string of nice starts to start 2014 and you're back in business with him as a trade chip

For an outstanding haul you trade Sale. His arm will hold up or it wont. Some people are built for that stress some people arent, point blank. The stress he puts on it, him just being what he is on the mound And of course if the team was better it'd be a different story............but right now we have no reason to think we'll be significantly better. in the next 2-3 years we miiiiight become 'good.' Meanwhile that whole time, an ace will just sit here either being the same value or getting hurt and decreasing in value.

The Sox have so many problems that...when I look at a garden variety Keppinger year as a rebound....plus Conor against righties..... .......I almost feel like this isnt a priority. I mean, everything is a priority..but you have to figure out what to do with Kepp's $ then.. I say all this in terms of how much cheap labor Quintana provides in the future...............more than Kepp/CG affection, necessarily.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) Ha, we just signed a coke head & 3 comments into a thread about 1 Sox legend honoring another there is more crap on AJ. It took like 2 pages before anyone even mentioned coke in that other thread. Going away from what your main point is here, but a question for all: What's more classy (i.e. less violative of others' happiness): (1) deciding to use coke (2) stomping on Justin Morneau's foot at first

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 10:09 PM) So the Sox say they owe it to Konerko to go out on his own terms. How about they owe it to the fans to stop BSing us. Oh yea we want to compete. Konerko was paid massive amounts of money to play for the Sox. You don't owe him anything. Try owing the fans a winner. The White Sox "family" atmosphere includes guys like Baines, Ventura and Konerko but the fans are not part of the family. Apparently we are the red-headed step child. Some of this goes too far. I get the spirit of what you are saying, but signing PK to THIS deal does not get in the way of winning. Perhaps other aspects of this offseason will, but not THIS specifically. Against lefties he had a .923 OPS last year. And you just paid $2.5M with a mil of that deferred. So in pure buying-situational-offense terms you just got a great deal, and if he has a bounceback year then it is an outstanding deal. This may come as news, but we need offense here. if this deal had come AFTER several other moves, it'd be hailed as a nice cherry on top. But - because it is coming FIRST, no one is judging it on its own merits, and instead viewing it in all these made-up negative terms ONLY. Again, some of that narrative is fair but not the wall-of-hate reaction. That level of it is ridiculous.

The organization is a mess, honestly. If an organization reviving monster offer for Sale came in...you look at his mechanics and just basically do it. He either is one of those genetic freaks that can survive any amount of years of weird torque on his body ------- or he's not. And we'll only know the answer to that once he's either injured or done with a 15 yr career etc.

The question to ask is...what will you do if someone gets hurt and they need a ton of ABs

PK should clarify then that this means he played with '2009 Mark Kotsay'

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) I am so f***ing tired of Jerry Reinsdorf and his loyalty belt. What about the A.C. Green chastity belt?

Basically what Balta is falling into here are several "appeals to probability." -- Because this move can mess up the 25-man roster, thus: it has messed up the 25-man roster. -- Because this move can mess up a potentially existing Dunn trade, thus: it has messed up a Dunn trade. The fact that we dont know the roster yet, and .....the fact that we have no rumors even of teams badly wanting Dunn... make this all Bad Logic.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:07 PM) And if we say Konerko is the primary backup for Alexei the remaining GM's around the league will believe that too right? Dunn in outfield has 1107 career games from what I'm looking at, so no need to call my idea the dumbest idea on the face of the earth. It's an option. The White Sox have used him there a couple games each year he's been here..obviously it hasnt been their need for him. But since we're talking about flexibility, I'm stating what we have at our disposal. Can be used as a bluff if need be - but again, your entire point even assumes there are passable Dunn deals waiting for us right now........ so before we even go into any of what you're arguing lets (1) see that there's even a deal to be had for Dunn (2) see what the 25-man even ...is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:03 PM) No, last year we could have waited on these guys to see if an improved deal would come along. We weren't forced to move the guys, at the worst they were dead losses. Frankly, it was starting to look like the market for Dunn could actually improve if we didn't show everyone our cards already. I guess I see your point, but the day we need leverage again you just put Robin V. on a mic to someone stating that Dunn is in the running for the LF job. Leverage reborn. I like that Hahn talks through stuff. I dont think that he'd say anything and let anything out that totally kills some negotiation he is in right now. That is just entirely a guess on your part...that.. that is what's happening right now.

Also, now is a time to chime in that PH is also a need. There was absolutely no one worthwhile to grab a bat in the most intense late inning situations And now there is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) The only way to learn to hit big league pitching is to face big league pitching at some point. He's not going to learn that on the bench. I still fail to see why there's a fear of Abreu being on the bench. He makes more money than early anyone here, and is 26.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) And now that everyone knows the White Sox have themselves a mess of a roster, they can drop anything they'd have been willing to offer. If you're playing cards and you reveal your cards to everyone else when they don't have to...that sort of hurts your ability to bet. Most likely...last year we were ready and willing to do everything we could do with every near-bargaining chip we had on a sizable salary. If there were no deals to be had for Dunn and Alexei back then....that were good for us........then I'm not under the impression that landscape was going to change wildly now. It may be PK, a catcher.... another tweak (Bacon?)...and we're done.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) Does Paul Konerko speak spanish? Hah. Lets hope Alexei still does. If he plays too many days in a row, he'll be insulted/angered and may try to retire & re-enter Cuba

ABRUPT TURN: Another angle of this, of course, is that the logjam doesnt matter since we arent a team that matters... ...so let Abreu get what he gets out of the mentoring. Sit Dunn against lefties and drive up his value for the deadline in case some GM out there needs that as some rationalizing force, in some way ...let Jerry fill some seats and sell some drinks on Konerko starts, and refill our spending reserves for 2015

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) But of course...the guy who really should be playing every day at 1b, Abreu, now has a RH hitting veteran backup in a position to make things very awkward if he's not in the lineup often enough. Or give him great mentoring. The pro-est pro possible in his corner. I dont see where you have these scenarios popping up where suddenly Abreu isnt going to get a ton of at-bats. He's going to get a s*** ton of at-bats at 26, 27 yrs old. Obviously.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) I see, so you disagree with the idea that baseball players need a day off. I don't, if you clearly read what I wrote, i said "understood." That said, at DH if we decided that Dunn isnt enough, but that PK+Dunn may be better....then that sounds good to me. Because it costs little. Meanwhile, Alexei playing a ton is something we are pretty much all aware will be happening, one way or another. This is the positional guy on our team most likely to cause a Win

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 12:34 PM) I'd say this is clearly false because it forces Alexei Ramirez to play every game for the first 5 months of the season since we can't carry a backup IF other than Keppinger. Baseball players need their days off. And their blanket. Understood. I dont know how you can say 'clearly' when the roster isnt even set. I'm into discussing the 25 man roster once it has the set 25 men...on it.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 11:56 AM) It's not that this completely screws over roster flexibility or is otherwise a crippling move to a team not expected to compete, but, imo, it reflects a pandering to the sentimental segment of the fanbase and an ownership mindset where winning is not the top priority, at least not anymore - maybe if JR was still as ring-hungry as he was pre 2005. True or false: A Konerko/Dunn platoon makes the team better. I would think this is easily True unless you can make one hell of an argument about the last spots on the roster. I think it happens to be a fan friendly move that also helps, in that it costs so little and does actually provide something we need. We need offense. Paulie vs. lefties had .923 OPS last year The more layered thinking too is Dunn in LF and what that could bring with a PK bounceback out-of-nowhere good start, and Abreu fulfilling the promise.... Ok now i'm doing it...again.