chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 12:49 AM) None of Danish, Montas or Anderson are traded for anything short of a superstar. Depends on what you mean by "superstar". Fact of the matter is their aren't many 5+ war players ever on the trading block. I'd trade Montas AND Danish for a 3 war, cost controlled OF right now however. At best Montas is a elite reliever (don't think he sticks as a starter) and Danish is a 3rd starter.

I bet my house the Sox don't bump payroll more than 20 million.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) What about Torii Hunter? Yeah, he's almost 40, but it's not apparent when he plays. He still hits well, he would make a better LF than Viciedo, and maybe even a better RF than Garcia, he is baseball-intelligent, and he has veteran leadership qualities with playoff experience. Probably not too expensive, either. makes zero sense. he's worse defensively than the crap the sox already have and at best is a one year "stop gap" option. Not what the Sox need. He'll either sign back with Detroit for 1 year 6-8 million with an option or retire IMO.

hell if you sub relievers for starters and mediocre sox offense for mediocre kc offense the 05 sox and 14 royals like kinda similiar. Both clubs put good teams on the field and got hot at the right time. Just get in the playoffs.

Non tender is gonna be interesting for Viciedo IMO. They really may feel the salary savings and roster spot are worth the mild risk someone will give up anything interesting for him down the road.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:49 PM) fangraph has an article on hit tools and with Tomas. good reading. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-the-hit-tool-pt-6/ thanks for the link enjoy fangraphs but that was just sorta a confusing article imo. The hit tool should be simply defined as the ability to hit to all fields for average in games. It doesn't really matter how you get there. Now, obviously there is a subjective element of "speed through the hitting zone" but a guy like Adam Eaton probably has below average bat speed all things considered but because he can spray the ball all over and run, he has a very good hit tool. A guy like Dayan is quick through the zone with oomph but his timing is so awful he can't hit for any average. His hit tool is below average but he has above average bat speed. The anti-Eaton.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 05:41 PM) You just got to get to the playoffs. To do that we need to replace our below average players with above average players at at least 4 positions. yep. there is no one model accept the Ozzie Guillen model: don't have too many horseshoot players!

I'm on the Markakis bandwagon. Yea he's nothing more than an average starter, but an average starter at LF is exactly what Chicago needs. Also, he's at least 10 runs better defensively than Viciedo, that alone is worth 1 win. If he can be had for 3/45 I do it. The pick is protected if they offer him the qualifying. edit: nm, his defense is awful. Someone on BTF was pumping up his defense. B-Ref and Fangraphs both hate it, and are consistent in hating him. No thanks.

Well one of them was probably a roider, one of them was a very gifted all around athlete and Floyd was the #1 overall prospect according to BA in 1994 so his upside was always there. Dayan was never that highly touted.

The Royals aren't model of anything accept luck! Goodness. They were a good, not great team, that slid into the playoffs and have won 11 in a row. 11. in. a. row. If you want to say that a mediocre (at best) offense coupled with average starting pitching, an elite pen, and very good defense is the new model, well, whatever. Everyone knows defense is half of run prevention, nobody needed the Royals lucky run to tell them that.

Just touching on Dayan's "room for growth" -- look at his comps through 25 on b-ref: Willie Montanez (971) George Hendrick (968) Jeremy Hermida (964) Rick Reichardt (958) Dick Kokos (955) Carmelo Martinez (954) Charlie Spikes (954) Andy Van Slyke (953) Cliff Floyd (950) Luis Gonzalez (949) Not exactly a row of guys that turned into average or even above average players. Hendrick had a nice career but he put together a season (124 OPS+) at 24 that Dayan could only dream about. Van Slyke obviously was on teh complete opposite side of the spectrum with defensive value. Dayan reminds me of Wily Mo Pena. Crap defense, crap running, solid power, even good power, but no on base skills, no contact skills. Mo washed out of the league after he proved he couldn't hit enough to stick as a regular. I can see Dayan going to Japan in a few years and having a good career, but I can't see him having a good career in MLB without a major, major jump in contact skill or patience. Things that just aren't likely to happen.

Ah geeze you know if the Sox sign Melkie player hate the game don't hate the player. The CBA outlines drug suspensions. If you think 50 games is too little of a punishment, then write Bud Selig, or whoever is they chose to replace him.

will he be higher or lower priced than tanaka? Either way, the Sox are probably going to be outbid by the Yankees or Red Sox or even Dodgers.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 01:07 AM) still a young guy. hope he outgrows it. And that he remembers that you play to win the game -- and hitting VMart did nothing to help that idea Probably a stretch, but you wonder if it will have any effect on VMart's interest in Sox. yea this is key. if that was a playoff race game as a Sox fan I'd be pretty damn pissed. Ok, if they are really stealing signs tell the manager and let him deal with it don't put a guy on just because you're pissed off. I like sale he'll learn from this and become better. he comes across as very self aware and while maybe a bit impulsive/foolhardy at times is also a cerebral top notch competitor.

I'm loathe to defend Robin but Sale just comes off more and more poorly here. He's obviously a great competitor but come on man. It didn't even seem to affect him on the field either until he plunked v-mart just because he felt like it. Every since then he's just been digging the hole deeper.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 10:40 PM) I wish more people would post their grades, then mine wouldn't be so scrutinized. I never thought this thread would turn into this. You make a compelling statement/sentence, but I grade them based on the factors I've listed in my many posts: acquisitions, record of the team. I just am stupefied that people think he's way better than a C, which is an average grade. Believe me, if the Sox ever contend again til the final week of the season I WILL give Mr. Hahn credit. Rome wasn't built in a day. The Sox team Hahn inherited was awful. Outside of the Cubs and 'Stros, and argument could be made coming into this season the Sox had the worst MLB talent in all of MLB in '13. Furthermore, unlike those teams, the Sox also were in the unevniable position as having a bottom 5 farm. In fact, when he took over, there were really only 3-5 players on the entire 40 man roster you'd consider possible starters on the next Sox playoff team: Alexei, Quintana, and Sale ok for sure, then name 2 more from the opening day roster in '13. It's slim pickings. Hahn has accomplished in a very short time a) getting the team's MLB talent back to mediocre and b) getting the MilB talent back to mediocre (or possibly even good depending on how highly you view Rodon/Adama/Danish/Montas/Bassitt. He's done this without bumping payroll, in fact he's done this while CUTTING payroll. The team is younger, has 3 foundational players (and contracts) and has enough prospects and payroll flexibility to make a run starting possibly as soon as next year. You don't go from 68 wins or whatever to 90 overnight. That they were 10 better this season while still playing a bunch of dead wood (to see if it wasn't quite rotted to the core in the case of most of it) is a very impressive GM job. Look at how other team's flounder in their tear downs. Hahn did in 1 offseason what it took the 'Stros and Cubs to do in 3-4 and he's done it with hardly any bad mistakes. You can preach on about how awful Paulino was but come on man, he was basically a spring invite that cost the amount of revenue from 1/162 of their MLBAM share. It was a nothing cost move that cost them nothing, and might have even (ya!) gotten them a protected 8th pick rather than a non protected later pick. Anyways, my grades, don't care about the pen won't list them other than as a group: position players nieto: D: --upside is there but needs more seasoning in AAA. Framing awful, hitting has potential, good tools. turned in a OK year for a backup catcher but I'm not gonna curve grade flowers: C- --late season surge and steady defense earn him a passing grade but hardly a standout year Kong: D- -- bumped revenue, was like -2 WAR on field. Abreu: A -- turned from incomplete slugger to triple threat down the stretch, one of the top 5 hitters in MLB, stud. played in 145 games, proved fairly durable if fatigued at end Beckham: D- --defense was usual solid, but with such an awful bat he'd need to be the wiz at SS to carry a 260 OBP. Semian: C- -- showed flashes but also major holes in his game. was hurt by the move to 3B IMO but his bat was MIA except for a few late game heroics Sanchez: C- -- really could be a D but at times an elite glove at 2B. Hitting obviously needs to improve but with that glove he could carry a 260/300/340 type line. Him and Semian will be key next year to any thoughts of contention imo Alexei: B+ -- another year of staying healthy and putting up around 4 WAR. Very much enjoy watching Alexei and his bat was pretty good for a SS in 2014. they don't hit like they did in the sillyball era Conor: B- -- again, no curves, ended up 1.2 fWAR and 1.6 bWAR, which eh, is probably what he is. Needs a platoon partner badly. Could be why Semian is playing so much 3B -- he's the platoon in '15. Keppinger: F -- if he had played, he would have sucked. Garcia: C+ -- Bat was even slower than usual after the injury but ran into enough and took enough walks to where you can squint and see a pretty damn good hitter. Middle case seems he'll be an OK starter. Hard worker to come back. Moises: C+ -- toolsy. May never be more than a 4th OF, but worth taking a flyer on in '15 spring Taylor: INC -- nothing there Tank: D -- brutal defense, no average, decent power, adds up to a below replacement level player that will probably be traded for scraps Eaton: B+ -- easy A if he had played 150 games instead of 123. Gets on base at a good clip (361), plays great defense, and can run the bases a bit. Not much of a base stealer but his reads and 1st to 3rd are top notch. Danks: D- -- one day he'll have a lifetime job in the sox marketing dpt if he wants. Leury: F -- sucks, should have been in AAA but Sox were incredibly thin at SS depth Willkins: F -- see, Danks. future FO mid level executive if he wants starters: Sale: A- -- some injury time missed, otherwise can't ask for more, top 3 starter in MLB. Q: A- -- workhorse, went over 200 ip, tough luck loser often, but top 15 mlb starter Johnson: F -- has to be injured, lost his razor thin margin when he went from 90-92 to 88-90. Not optimistic he'll ever bounce back, seems to have a shoulder problem Paulino: F -- easy come easy go Carroll : D+ -- actually was a decent facsmille of a MLB quality 4thish, 5th starter at times. Othertimes proved he's a long man at best, absolute best. Noesi: C -- did a solid job, passable 4th starter in a mediocre rotation, solid 5th in a good one though. cheap for the next couple years good pickup bassit: C+ -- if he can keep that control up he'll be a solid MLB starter. Not sure he really can though. Pen, grade as whole: F -- Only guys with decent FIPS are I believe Putnam and Petricka. Eveyrone else pretty much sucked. FO: Hahn: A -- see above Robin: D -- players like him. awful tactician, has no concept of platoons and lineup construction. loves to make a move only to be easily countered by the opposing team Cooper: B -- didn't have much to work with, made some improvements with Noesi. The cream rose with Q and Sale. Will have his most important project since Sale next year with Rodon. Stevenson: B -- In general, I think he was a positive influence but maybe only because the talent was better. Team grade: B-: An exciting year that had many great walk off wins and some elite indidivudal performances. The Sox haven't had a hitter this good since Frank. They haven't had a pitcher this good since...? The bullpen was awful,a function of throwing a bunch of s*** at the wall and hoping it turned into gold plated s***. Didn't happen and the team also gave up a ton of runs at the margins with awful defense in the corners (for the most part) and below replacement batting lines spread throughout the lineup. THe future however should see those holes filled, either through acquiring some salary and/or trades, or in house prospects.

Hahn gets an A, no doubt. He spent very little money and essentially brought in two, possibly three cornerstone players in Eaton, Jose and Garcia. Yea you can say he could have gotten more for Rios or quibble with the Paulino money but in the grand scheme of things he took one of the worst, most unwatchable, talent less clubs in '13 and turned them into a highly watchable, talented but flawed, '14 club. The pieces are now in place for the next run of contention. There is a lot more work to be done, but from the POV of where the Sox were at entering last offseason, he did a helluva job filling holes.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) Hahn could have said that it's conceivable that Sale could pitch out of the bullpen too, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. There are a lot of things that are conceivable that are not ultimately realistic. Yea this is a throwaway quote. There are a couple scenarios where it would possibly make sense to have Rodon pitch some MLB innings first as a reliever. Say for instance they want him to work on a specific pitch for a few outings against MLB hitters before turning him loose as a starter. Or, the Sox somehow miraculously find 5 starters likely better than him as a rookie, he's "stuck" in AAA well into July, the team is 40-34 or something and needs all hands on deck that sort of thing. That said, neither of those scenarios is that likely, which is why it's "conceivable" but highly unlikely.

The last part to Sale's greatness might not be improving his pitching but just his mental POV. He gets a little too amped up out there sometimes. Maybe he should take the caffeine routine down a notch on game day.

ha you guys are upset about this game? just forget it it was a good game and Detroit won. The Sox are playing decent baseball, way better than to close last year.

I don't understand the point in giving AAA lifer Phegley ABs over Nieto. Kinda bothers me. Phegley sucks, he's never going to be anything in MLB.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) That is a move of the goalposts to another standard. Danks is covering innings. And as SSS did point out in the article, if we had replaced Danks with Rienzo for a good chunk of those innings, that 4.8 era becomes something like 5.35. Finally no rebuilding team wants an expensive "s*** sandwich". They want prospects. Again, the only way Danks gets dealt in the real world is for a different flavor or s*** sandwich. Fair enough. I don't think Danks will ever be anything more than a 5th starter post surgery so I am of the mind to dump him for a bag of balls and find a better 5th starter next year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 05:23 PM) Danks is #20 in the AL and #49 in MLB in IP. Yea but "innings eater" that is below replacement are at replacement isn't eating much except a s*** sandwich! If he can't post an ERA + of around 90 then what good is his 25 starts to a contender? I'd rather ship him off with cash to a team that is looking to rebuild and can maybe try and rehab some of his trade value while they do.

I just question if John is really capable of being "an innings eater" at this point. He seems more likely to be a guy that rarely gets out of the 6th inning IMO. Even if he makes 25+ starts he's not giving the pen much of a rest because he's constantly knocked out of games early. I guess he could be a decent 5th starter or maybe even a 4th if he can harness his command and control but I'd still prefer trying to move him. Don't think the Sox have room for him in the rotation if they want to contend in '15.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 10:50 PM) Glad to hear Sanchez's defense looks better then what it did his first few games He had a couple of plays that you thought ok maybe it's a close play and he got em both by 3-4 feet at first. He is very quick to the ball.