chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:47 PM) But LaRoche doesn't prevent us building for the future. He costs us nothing but money and is blocking no one of importance (sorry Andy Wilkins). Also, I think Hahn believes a lot of key pieces are already in place. We have legit #1 & #2 starters, one of the best hitters in baseball, and a very good leadoff guy. We are obviously not a finished product by any means, but if Hahn can fill our major holes with capable veterans and a few of our young, non-proven players like Avi, Semien, Rodon, etc. take that next step, we have a decent chance of being a playoff team. Burning cost-controlled years of Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton by refusing to sign/trade for veterans is by far the worst thing we can do IMO. This move certainly makes a lot more sense as part of a push to fill the holes with 1-3 WAR regulars and make a push for the playoffs. If this signals that yea, they really do have 40 some million in payroll to play around with, ok fine.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:45 PM) Counterpoint: He was very undervalued and with a limited number of landing spots. His age allows for the deal to be 2 years. Limited risk. No compensation pick. Pretty smart getting a guy who put up an .817 OPS last year and still leaving room for upgrades at other positions. After looking at his splits and yea, no compensation pick, it's slightly more defensible. That said, still don't like it, unless it's part of many more moves that all make sense together, which could still happen.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:43 PM) His 2014 splits are crazy....620 OPS against LHP, .890 OPS against RHP. He's going to have to be platooned. I'm not a fan of sinking $12.5M into a platoon player BUT he's quite a dominant hitter against RHP, enough so that he'll change this line-up considerably when he's in it. With that said, unless Viciedo will be his platoon partner, this signing still leaves a hole for a RH DH or 1B. I also agree that this signals that the Sox plan on being competitive next season which really surprises me. I thought it'd be 2016 before we threw our chips in. Viciedo is going to get what, like 4-7 million in arb? That's a pretty damn expensive DH platoon.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:41 PM) What did you want Hahn to do? Not waste 25 million on LaRoche. DH types are a dime a dozen come January. Have no idea what the rush to make this move was. Yea they need a left handed bat, but they need a decent one. Not LaRoche.

awful, uninspired move. When did Kevin Towers take over for Hahn?

On what planet are we living on where Andy Wilkins provides value? He's a 27 year old non prospect that was absolute trash in his cup of coffee. He looked completely overwhelmed by MLB pitching. He struck out in half his 45 AB! Come on people.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:59 PM) I think Phegley makes a hell of a lot more sense for that chopping block. The Sox have very little first base depth at the moment. At least as a AAAA player, Wilkins has enough talent and upside that he could get hot for a month and perhaps keep the Sox afloat. Maybe his ceiling is Garrett Jones, maybe it's lower than that, but the guy can hit the ball out of the park. EDIT: Also, Raul Fernandez, Andre Rienzo, and Maikel Cleto. Could be Phegley but honestly as an emergency AAAA catcher he has value. Types like Wilkins are usually floating around for non roster invites in spring, no? Cleto yea, he could be gone as well.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:50 PM) Who is Wilkins blocking at the moment that people want him DFA'd and gone so badly? Nobody right now but he's the next man for the chopping block when they make their next FA signing and/or trade. I put that odds at 90% that if they need to clear 40 man spot, he's the guy to go. edit: or when they resign Kong.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) Nah, man. That role is going to Danks. LOL. Yea, they are going to pay him what they are paying him in order to pitch 50 s***ty innings out of the pen. He'll either enter camp as the 4th starter (something went horribly wrong then) or he'll be off the team. Well, one more possibility exists, and that is that he'll be the 5th starter breaking camp, and that wouldn't be half bad assuming they fixed the 3 and 4 spots. I do agree with you that Wilkens and Rienzo are as good as gone. Wilkens? LMAO. Classic AAAA player. I have no idea why he hasn't already been waived. Rienzo maybe they could get a C prospect for.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) Sounds like the exact type of guy the Sox would go after. yup.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) Well good; I thought he was at his 5 years (if he wasn't , I'm not sure why he was on the 40 man in the first place). He is, he reached that in 2012. He sucks, nobody will sign him to anything other than a minor league contract. Since he's familiar with the Sox, he'll probably just stick in Chicago. Classic career minor leaguer that might see a cup of coffee or two in his 26-30 age years.

QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 02:43 PM) I'm just not interested in Melky. I don't like him. He strikes me as a guy who plays for money an fame and not for the love of the game. I think he'll cost to much an I would't want him for as long as the contract he's seeking(5 yrs.) I think we'd be much better off with Rasmus with a shorter and cheaper contract. I'm still waiting to see whats out on the trade market though. Funny story about Melky (note: I don't think what you're arguing is true, just for the record). My buddy and I were sitting in CF at yankee stadium and the Yankees were doing their usual around the horn fan intros. Well, Melky got his last, as per usual for the CF, and it was just his luck that the first pitch was swung on and hit deep to CF. Melky was still tipping his cap to the crowd when the ball was hit and he got an awful jump and missed the ball by a couple feet. It would have been a routine play. The jeers from the crowd were awesome.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 10:35 PM) Or, we could sign a clown from the circus and teach him how to throw a cutter. It would cost a lot less. Seriously though, Danks needs to be out of the equation IMO, even if they have to eat quite a bit of salary. Your plan is a good one for the rotation.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 07:39 PM) Don't think anyone has looked at his splits yet to compare his 1st and 2nd half of 2014. If you think the league may have caught up to the changes then you may have a point. 1st Half 38 IP 29 hits 1.18 ERA 0.947 WHIP 7BB 0 WP 2nd Half 20.2 IP 20Hits 4.79 ERA 1.452 WHIP 10BB 3WP Hey fun with selective endpoints! His 2nd half xFIP was 2.76 his 1st half was 1.72. He was pretty damn good in both. The big difference? His strand rate went from 90.5 in the 1st and to 59.5 in the 2nd half, that and he walked a few more guys. He had a very good year overall, splitting it up is fairly useless for such a small sample already. He only pitched 20.2 after the ASB. It's a fine signing I have no idea how anyone could be against it. They have money to spend and the pen was awful. This move hardly breaks the bank for additional signings.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 08:59 PM) And the bidding starts with 2/20M. I think LaRoche ends up with more but someone has to make the first bid. Let the Marlins have him. In the NL? He'll be a negative WAR player. Awful deal for the Marlines, might as well have thrown 30 million at Butler if that's what LaRoche gets.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) Really want LaRoche, I would sign him to a one year deal with an option for a second. He would really upgrade the team's defense, and he is a left handed bat. The fug? He's only -122 runs for his career in the field. He's 35. He's a DH. Not a very good one at that. Pass, pass, pass.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 05:46 PM) You do realize WAR is essentially a counting stat right? 1.5 WAR for a guy who is only going to pitch 60 innings is pretty respectable. Of course I do. But it's also a counting stat that reflects value, unlike say RBI. Most elite relievers usually come in around 1.5-2.5 WAR. The cost of a win on the FA market is roughly 7 million. If Chicago gets 1 WAR out of him in 60 innings that's great. That means he was a above average (note: not simply above replacement) level reliever, which will represent great value for the money. Bullpens are assets collectively and they are liabilities collectively. Duke is a good start towards the pen as asset in '15 imo.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 05:46 PM) I would like to point out this is a risky move but a good risk/reward and something a team that is looking to contend will do. This is not a ra ra fanfare move but move that will hopefully help to win games. I think weather you like it or not it bodes well for the upcoming weeks. It's not though. It's a low risk low reward move. At best, he's a solid reliever (aka 1.5 WAR), at worst, he's not even a passable reliever and he gets cut (they eat 10 million). If the downside is "eating 10 million" and the upside is "1.5 WAR reliever" it's the def of a low risk low reward move. Middle case is he's a 1 WAR reliever and everyone goes home happy. Yea the 3rd year is a bit much but whatever, it's a 3rd year at 5 million. This also begins their push for more org pitching depth at the high minors and AAAA level. That's just as important as whatever Duke gives them IMO. They need more non replacement level relievers seeing time and this helps.

No, it's not a lot of money. It's 3 years 15 million THAT IS CHUMP CHANGE. Come on, this is the new economic reality in MLB. This is 5 million less than Joe Nathan got. This is a fine signing. The Sox need quality relievers. Based on his mechanical changes and results as a reliever (he's now throwing a funky sidearm and has over 11k/9 last year) it's easy to see that Duke could be a nice piece in the pen. If he's not, whatever, the money is nothing. The cost of a win on the FA market is about 7 million. If he's a 1 WAR pitcher the Sox got their money's worth and then some.

For weather, the best climate is obviously in SoCal but NoCal is better than anywhere else in the country (subjective but certainly it doesn't get that cold or that hot, which people seem to like) non SoCal division. Seattle gets a bad rep for rain but as a former midwestern/east transplant, I can say the weather here beats the crap out of Chicago or NYC -- especially if you don't like extremes. It's 50 today, low will be around 40, that's a pretty typical day here for the next 4 months. No snow, quite a bit of clouds. The clouds get bad especially around April and May, but no snow, hardly ever goes below 40, lotta plants stay green and/or bloom all year. Not at all bad IMO. Anyways, the Sox could really benefit from trading Ramirez while he still has peak value. They could also screw it up. We'll see.

DA's "sources" are about as worthwhile as my inferences IMO, neither has any 100% ground in certainty. The Middlebrooks stuff is just hearsay. I don't believe that many FOs are operating by committee and I don't believe the Sox are either. Committees don't work because there is no accountability. The buck has to stop somewhere and I have a very, very, very hard time believing Hahn would operate without 100% full authority because as an up and coming, young executive it would be career suicide to hitch his wagon to a setup where he is the GM but doesn't have full authority. KW had about as much to do with the Abreu signing as Clay Davenport (as another voice saying HEY THIS GUY IS GONNA BE REALLY GOOD). Hahn negotiated the deal, just like he negotiated the Sale and Q deals.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 15, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) What is your source for believing all of this? What about when the Cubs put out a press release announcing Jed Hoyer the GM? He's not the head with the Cubs even though he's the GM. Did you ever consider Hahn's ties to the area and the fact that he has a young family here? I'm not saying Hoyer equals Hahn as Hahn most definitely has a bigger role and more autonomous GM role but it's not to say Hahn is acting alone. It's a conglomeration of people making the decisions up there. Yes, Hahn handles the day-to-day decisions but Hahn reports to Kenny Williams. If Kenny Williams wants to put the kibosh on a trade that Hahn orchestrated that trade will not happen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hahn Look how many interviews he turned down. That's just from his wiki. He also was rumored to be high on Boston's list after Theo left. Look at his body of work with the White Sox -- it speaks for itself, he has negotiated spectacularly team friendly extensions (and contract in Jose's case) and turned an aging, bad team into a mediocre, young team in 2 years. I can't say with 100% certainty that Hahn doesn't have final executive say on baseball decisions, but I can damn sure lay out a case that if he doesn't, then he'll soon be leaving the Sox because if he aspires to be a true GM (and what type A like Hahn doesn't?) a number of other teams will come begging. KW retired. That's what happened. But, because JR is JR he orchestrated it so KW got a raise (thanks for that WS!!!!!!!!) and a "promotion" in the press. If you think Hahn has to go to KW for permission to make a deal -- you're way off base IMO. He has 100% authority. He wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 15, 2014 -> 12:29 AM) It would be interesting to hear the cigar smoke-filled war room discussion in terms of who was most adamant about signing Abreu. Or the various thoughts about Viciedo Ramirez Tomas and Moncada going forward. In Jose's case? Probably the stats geek looking at the Davenport translations. KW was probably a close second

Hahn could have left for any number of GM jobs before taking over KW. He only stayed for one reason -- full control. You're naive if you think that when the White Sox put a press release out announcing Hahn's assignment as GM that KW was really getting a promotion. He got moved upstairs, he probably mostly chats with JR and does scouting. He gave two thumbs up hard for Abreu, and that couldn't have hurt. KW deserves it (the pay raise and laid back retirement), he had some misses and left the Sox in a pretty bad position, but he also won a World Series on a very well constructed team that could have done more in 2006 but ran into some bad baseball luck (it happens, they had good luck overall in 2005). In general his teams were competitive, usually mediocre, but rarely poor. Add on the title and he was a helluva GM for Chicago despite his string of bad moves to end his tenure.

this guy isn't any great shakes right?