Greg Hibbard

I think one of the things totally lost in this discussion is that Jose simply doesn’t need to necessarily be even the fourth best hitter on this team in 2020 or 2021. He just needs to be reliable, produce at 80% of his career numbers, and not get injured. It would be totally acceptable for Abreu to have a line like .265/.310/.460/.770 - which I think represents the very bottom of where I see him falling off - considering Robert, Madrigal, Jimenez, Anderson, Moncada, Vaughn, and an upgraded FA right field acquisition will also be in the lineup.

I have zero infatuation with the Cubs. I don't get devaluing a DH. In the American League the Chicago White Sox play in, you are required by the rules to use a player called a "Designated Hitter" who does not play a position in the field. We need one. We've needed one for fucking years, and now, thank GOD we have one for 2020. My point is that Jose Abreu is better OFFENSIVELY this season than a player typically thought of by baseball fans as a very good OFFENSIVE baseball player who YES is also a elite defender.

I think Abreu is signed for a two year deal for $24 million with an team option for a third year at $12 million with a $1 million buyout, and I think he might play 50 more games total at first base in his entire career post 2019. I think Vaughn might be up as soon as just after the all star break next year, which is part of the entire plan.

Except we are talking about Jose Abreu being a DH next year. What defensive stats should I reference for a DH, ron? Please enlighten us

How is comparing OPS+ to OPS+ comparing apples to oranges?

Jose Abreu now has a higher 2019 OPS+ than Javier Baez what does Soxtalk think about that

what a game.

Our won-loss is likely going to be 11 or 12 games better than last year. I don't know how that translates to "barely better"

Love 2 see Twins suck

1.135 was the actual OPS number. I done added wrong.

Those numbers I previously quoted just went to .390/.444/.719/1.163

Just want to point out that since August 5th Abreu is now hitting (including 2 singles today in 2 at bats) .381/.437/.698/1.135 in his last 71 plate appearances.

Also, to be honest, I think the White Sox are sticking with Renteria in part because he's fluent in Spanish and they value that with such a big proportion of latin talent.

The only thing I'll add to this convo is that analytics are 100% useful in evaluating talent and making decisions, but they are still a work-in-progress. I think metrics now don't necessarily represent the absolute end-all be-all and eventually some of them will change and be improved upon. T

Farmer and DJ have recently said that Jose simply wasn’t getting balls in the zone at all and that the difference was that he was swinging at the first pitch out of the zone and now he’s taking ball 1. Castillo and Alonso hitting behind Abreu wasn’t just inappropriate, it seemed exploitable beyond an all star having a league average hitter behind them.

Looking at Jose's peripherals, it doesn't seem like much has changed to indicate he's suddenly gone south. Is it possible that his last two seasons his low BABIP has worked to depress his numbers? Also, do you think with a stronger lineup Jose's numbers would improve?

the top 8 teams have a 1.6 or better WAR production out of the DH slot, the bottom 7 AL teams have 1.1 or less. I suppose 1.6 bWAR is currently AL League Average. I would be happy with basically AL league average production out of DH, considering that we are getting great offensive production out of so many other positions next year with even more help coming during the year.

The WAR table seems to indicate that anything over 1.1 is above AL league average.

This is the WAR table https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/team_compare.cgi?lg=MLB&year=2019

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this table when sorted by DH indicate that only three MLB teams have more than 1 WAR at the DH position? I know half those teams are NL, but this seems to indicate that a 1 WAR at DH is perfectly acceptable. EDIT: oops, this is WAA, not WAR. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/team_compare.cgi?lg=MLB&year=2019

We're talking about a 1000 AB sample size in which 500 AB of it was Jose being dinged up by various injuries all of last year - and still producing just fine, all things considered. If we're REALLY going to be honest about Jose, he's been remarkably consistent in the 5 years after his rookie year. Yes, there's been some deviation, but post ROY he is what he is - basically a .290/.320/.500/.820 reliable piece of offense. That's basically what he is this year too, accounting for his BABIP. I really do NOT buy into the theory that 32 year old Jose Abreu is somehow remarkably different offensively from 29 or 30 year old Abreu. I do buy into the theory that 27 year old Abreu was a different hitter.

Full disclosure, I was convinced that the Sox should have pursued Machado and was very disappointed with what happened. However, after scrutinizing his numbers this season and last, I just don't really get why he's SO valued. I must be missing something. I understand that at his position, his defense carries a lot of weight, but his offensive numbers have never seemed overwhelmingly good to me. And if defense doesn't really carry nearly as much value as offense does in terms of "wins", why is he so valuable?

Defensively he's terrible. However, if we are just strictly speaking offense here, why is it "obvious decline"? I don't exactly agree with that. Maybe "slight decline". His batting average is 20 points below his career average, and his on base is 30 points below career average, but his BABIP is also 20 points below his career average. His K% is slightly up (something like 2%). I would say accounting for his BABIP, he's right about where you would expect him to be.

I don't really understand people who DON'T want Abreu back in a DH-only role. Given all the issues we have had since 2011 finding a consistent DH, it seems like as streaky as he is, Abreu can be counted on to reliably deliver an .800ish OPS. It's not like those grow on trees, or that they come without cost. We would either need to sign a FA DH for a similar amount of money as a DH or slot in one of our relatively unproven kids like Collins as DH (not Eloy - he still belongs in the field with Robert's range being huge and as long as he calls him off a lot). He makes the most sense here, he wants to be back, we want him back. Even if they overpay, who fucking cares? Reinsdorf has billions and you're crazy if you think $10 or $12 million a year makes a big difference. He might make the fans feel that way, but all of these owners could afford $500 million dollar payrolls even if they treat their fanbases like they can't afford it.

Does that IL time you're citing account for the 162 games lost for Michael Kopech, for example?