Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) No I stated what I meant. That there have been successful managers who have had 0 coaching experience. I never said it was common or uncommon. And yes it happens, because I pointed to examples of it happening. So if we hire a team full of midgets, we'd be great. That one guy had a career 1.000 OBP.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 08:17 PM) I'm willing to give him a chance. Everyone here knows he's going to be the worst manager ever. But remember, a poll here showed that a majority of posters said they managed better than Oz, all Robin has to do is be as good as the average poster here and it's a major upgrade. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81618 Tex, what is your incessant need to consistently mock the posters on this board? It seems that every post of yours in PHT is of this nature. Can you ever add anything to the discussion without coming off like this?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Where did I use the word uncommon. You find that in one of my posts, Ill do the research for you or Ill quit posting in this forum, your choice. I stated that there have been coaches who had no managerial experience, and I provided examples. Misquoting me wont get you anywhere. Haha, alright. There has also been a midget player. You deliberately made an argument that was intended to make it seem that this type of thing happens and isn't uncommon. It's obvious to anyone who is reading the thread. I'm not going to argue with you, though, as you always do this. You'll harp on the smallest of things and will never admit to being wrong.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) Milkman, You dont pay me enough to do your research for you. No no, don't put this on me and act like I'm the one avoiding it. You claimed that it's not uncommon for a manager to be hired with no experience whatsoever. I'd like you to come up with some examples in this era of baseball.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) Dont worry Slav, its just the regular here, much ado about nothing. Anyone with google can find names of managers who had no experience (Joe Torrie) and managers with tons of experience that arent good (Jerry Manuel). I also find it amusing that people are just assuming Ventura was cheaper than Martinez, when there is nothing to suggest thats true. Ventura made far more money in his career than Martinez, Ventura has turned down basically every coaching job offered to hm besides this one. If anything it probably cost more to get Ventura than Martinez. But hey lets just make things up and get angry because we are upset! ROAR Oh, condescension. That's new. So if it's so easy, and you're the one making claims that this happens all the time, why don't you Google these managers with absolutely no experience for us? Please, and try to make them in the recent history of baseball. You came up with Joe Torre (35 years ago) and Connie Mack (117 years ago) so far. Let's hear the rest.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) He was hired as Rays bench coach in 2007. It's not like he's been there forever. Baines has been a coach for us since 2004 and he's won more WS than Maddon and Martinez. Why not hire him? For f***s sake, everyone fell in love with Martinez and went gaga over him. Sure, he's a great candidate but it doesn't mean he'll be a great manager. He was just one example. Alomar was also out there, and a few other guys.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) I would have preferred Herbert Perry.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:26 PM) Mike Quade spent 20 years managing in the minors. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:27 PM) Thank you. Haha, add that to the stretches. Let's bring Connie Mack back up. That was a relevant addition as well. My sweet Lord...

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) I want to say I'm shocked with the negativity surrounding this hiring, but then again, this is SoxTalk. On the face of it, I like it. Would I have liked Dave Martinez, sure? But he has just as much managerial experience as Ventura. Like others have said, this isn't football or basketball. He'll be just fine so long as he has a good coaching staff around him. Honestly, the more important hiring will be the hitting and bench coaches. It's too early to tell if this is a good hire or not. He hasn't managed a damn game yet. I love how people are stretching this much. Since neither has managed a professional team, they're equally as experience. Never mind the fact that one has been the right-hand man for a manager for years. It's like having two guys work in the mail room of a company for about 15 years. One somehow retires while the other works his way up to vice president of the company. When there is an opening for president, the mail room guy is hired because they both have the same amount of experience at running a company. And to say that the more important hiring is that of the hitting and bench coaches doesn't even make sense. The most important hiring is the manager, plain and simple.

QUOTE (Cali @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) s***, it's my fault really. I expected something different from this organization. I shouldn't have gotten excited about Martinez. Of course they were gonna hire someone completely out of the blue... This is The White Flag Hiring. We will look back on it and know it years from know... The White Sox have given up on three things: Spending money to hire someone. Hiring someone out of organization. And, giving any indication to the fan base that they will at all be in contention for the next 3+ years I had already lowered my hopes. I knew they'd disappoint me, but I was expecting a disappointment of Sandy Alomar over Dave Martinez. Something that wasn't ideal, but wouldn't be bad. They somehow pantsed me and managed again to molest my aspirations for this team.

QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) What seems odd to me is that a lot of the people who see 2012 as a rebuilding type year are shedding the most tears over this move. If you're going to be grooming younger guys to come up, you should probably have a manager who has experience as a manager or coach helping young guys adjust to the game.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:48 PM) That is a given. It was kind of like what the Sox initially did with Ozzie when they kept Nossek on board to provide him with support and even talked about trying to get an ex manager on board. Robin has a lot of friends so I'm very curious who this bench coach they've targeted is and whether that team will give the Sox permission. According to his Wikipedia page, Nossek was a member of the White Sox organization until 2003. And if I recall correctly, he left during the season. He wasn't on the bench for Guillen.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) Honestly, what good would that even do you as a manager? I would think that experience would help you become a better base coach, but other than that, what? Those are just bang-bang decision-making skills you have to hone. So that's why all of the teams in major league baseball hire guys with absolutely no experience whatsoever. It mustn't help at all.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) I would argue that 1 to 2 years of being a 1st base coach or 3rd base coach isn't exactly a ton of experience. So I'd say Ozzie had his early successes despite limited coaching, Girardi the same. The fact is that they were both coaches, and Girardi was a bench coach. Robin Ventura had a lull of about 8 years after his playing career until he was hired as a manager. And Ozzie was a coach for 3 years. I'd say that was 3 times the experience of Ventura, but anything times zero is still zero.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:30 PM) "Accountability" There's another crazy idea. Spend years of your life learning how to coach on a major league bench from a distinguished manager. No interview. Spend years of your life sitting in your living room or playing catch with your kids. You're hired. Accountability at the White Sox finest

QUOTE (Cali @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:28 PM) I completely agree with this article: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...maining-content Sigh

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:44 PM) I heard today from a friend in radio DJ is history and will not be back in 2012 and North or Steve Dahl may take his place with Farmio! Take it with a grain of salt, I am just saying what he told me today! Anyone else heard any rumblings on this? Might as well continue to make moves that piss me off.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:14 PM) As I said, I wasn't endorsing anything, I was just posting reactions. Oh, I know. I'm just putting that out there, too.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) Yeah because working the cash register at McDonalds is the same as being the CEO. HE HAD EXPERIENCE AT MCDONALDS!!! Oh and Joe Torre never had coaching experience. But lets all pretend that no one has ever been a manager without previous experience before. You said he was a player-manager. Either way, that was 35 years ago. Come up with a relatively recent example of a manager who hadn't coached or managed at some level before becoming the manager of a major league team.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) Big difference in attitude between Fisk and Ventura. But yeah, I guess it could have been him, I'm done pretending to know what this organization is thinking. Where do you stand on this?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:00 PM) No managerial experience is quite different from no coaching experience. We've only said it 50 times. People will continue using that line of thought anyway.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 04:57 PM) The Chicago media is still figuring out how to spin it so it seems brilliant. Exactly. I love how people are popping up with the tweets from various Chicago newsmen saying how they like the move, when these are the same guys who wouldn't say a negative thing about Ozzie until it was absolutely clear that he wasn't coming back.

QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) I'm ambivalent on this. But there are reasons why he is my all-time favorite player. Let's give him a shot. Let's hope he has a strong coaching staff behind him, too. Yep, this is exactly what I said the organization was looking for.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 04:48 PM) And they all have just as good of a chance to be a good manager as Dave Martinez or Sandy Alomar. I bet there are a few fans out there absolutely uninvolved with baseball that could also have just as good of a chance to be a good manager. I know people are going to fight it to the death, but we should have gone with a guy with some semblance of experience at coaching/managing.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 04:42 PM) And as mentioned there have been plenty of managers who have succeeded with out prior coaching experience. I'm certainly not excited about this move but I'm not disappointed either, it's clearly a wait and see type move. I completely understand why everyone wants to trash every move this organization makes(and I've been right there with you guys most of the time) but Robin hasn't been apart of this garbage, I'll wait to see what he can do before I condemn this move. I'd like more examples, then. Girardi was a bench coach, Torre player-managed before he became a full-time manager, and Connie Mack began coaching in the 19th century.