Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) The problem with Pierre is two-fold. First, even if you look at his history, his offensive contributions aren't that good, unless you love SB's. He has no power and doesn't walk that much. Add in the fact that we have a potential difference maker waiting in AAA, and it appears we are forgoing production because we need the prototypical leadoff hitter. So even using his historical numbers, we're not optimizing our offense by playing Pierre everday. Second, and more importantly, you can't just look at historical numbers. You have to scout the player and see where he is physically and mechanically to project for the future. That's where the real problem comes into play. Pierre looks like he has lost a step and his SB numbers support that. If that's the case, and it's not due to injury, then waiting for him to perform at prior levels is stupid. He just wouldn't be the same player. No matter how many singles Pierre hits in a week won't change these points. IMO, Viciedo is the better option right now and should be playing. Unfortunately, philosophical and/or financial reasons are preventing what is an obvious decision to maximize production. Ah, there we go. Another person gets what I was saying.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) So now you are going to start building your annual payroll with players that are now the property of other ballclubs. See how that works out for you. What?

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:30 PM) The reality is that KW & OG have to actually live with their decisions. Unlike us who can second guess and change our minds all the time. It wasn't that long ago that you called Lillibridge useless and wanted him off the team and now you want to give him more playing time. He was useless the way he was being used, as solely a pinch runner.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) Because there are no ramifications to you being completely and utterly wrong, other than the random ribbing you might receive on soxtalk. Honestly, what was your position on Lillibridge prior to the last month or so? Did you want him DFA'd last year? Would you have chosen Milledge over Brent? Would you have given him a roster spot this year? We still have to hear about it from people critiquing. Yes, there are obviously no ramifications in the sense of losing employment because it's not actually our job. In regards to Milledge and Lillibridge, I wanted Milledge to stick around due to his experience with playing CF. I also said that I would rather have the two of them while getting rid of Teahen.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) This is one of the most laughable things I have ever read. How so? I see people reminded daily with things like "Oh you were so right about the ____ trade." I also see posters mock and criticize other posters just as much as they do to Ozzie or KW.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) First of all, when the answer is oftentimes a multiple choice answer, yes, some percentage of the fans sometimes guess right while those within the organization sometimes guess wrong. Secondly, while there is some merit to your point of people sometimes being too close to the forest to see the trees, it is also ridiculous for fans, whether it be on the radio talk show, or on a message board, to claim as if all these decisions are so easy and black and white. Much of the time, the fan doesn't have anywhere near enough information to make the best decision. Additionally, the manager and GM and owner's body of work is all something tangible and factual. These moves and decisions did occur under so and so. While the fan is free to criticize with impunity, entirely free from accountability because his decisions are not saved in time for all to remember. You want to argue that Lillibridge should be starting instead of Pierre? How many of us even wanted Pierre on this team this year? How many of us wanted him DFA'd in the past two years? Would he even be here for that option to exist were things up to most of the fans who are so clearly so fit to be in a position of decision-making authority? No. Hell no. Were it up to the fans, Lillibridge would be playing in another uniform right now. I just want some recognition from people that the jobs Ozzie and Kenny have are incredibly complex and it is very, very easy to be critical of them. Meanwhile, fans, and even writers for the most part, are able to criticize and second guess every day, with no fear of being held accountable or being flat-out wrong tomorrow. The notion that many of us around here would do better than Kenny and Ozzie is so far-fetched and filled with lunacy that it should not even be debated. Pfft, are you kidding? We're reminded daily on Soxtalk about our mistakes. And we certainly don't get away without accountability. I think we all recognize that the jobs are complex, but I think it's crazy to flat-out say that some posters couldn't do a better job.

Haha, I don't think Will Arnett will ever find a keeper as long as they keep putting him in starring roles on TV or movies. He's a supporting guy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 23, 2011 -> 03:12 PM) (Half of them Pierre's fault). Thanks for the support

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Pierre has hit .400 over his last 6 games. Are you sure it's time to sit him now? He's a career .300 hitter. Maybe we should trust 6400 at bats of data here? Lillibridge's results have tailed off as a White Sox whenever we have increased his playing time. Is it best to trust his career .208 average or go off of 44 at bats he's had thus far this year? We have 2.5 years invested in Gordon Beckham already, he's playing outstanding defense, and we have no real in-house replacement, perhaps other than the previously mentioned Lillibridge. Is Gordon's bat in the 8 or 9 hole really costing our offense right now? Would it be best in the long run to send him back down to Charlotte even though he claims to be feeling much more confident recently? Do you really think Ozzie and Kenny, who've spent twenty-plus years of their lives in baseball are basing all their decisions on faulty logic, while you and I, random Moe's who've never played or coached above high school ball, can clearly see the errors of their ways and determine the real and true logic necessary to turn this mess around? Yes, I think it is quite possible. Russ explained many of the reasons. And with Pierre, his speed and defense have also suffered. So even if he raises his average, it will be a completely empty number. You didn't even mention Viciedo, and I assume that's because you agree that he would be a good replacement for him. The fact is that Lillibridge has earned a chance to play a bit more, whether that means that he'd be replacing Beckham, Pierre, or Rios more often than he has been. You can also get Vizquel in there more often, but not to make him a permanent starter as he would wear down or get exposed similar to Lillibridge if he were an everyday player. Thornton had to blow (I believe) four straight saves before he lost his job as closer. That may have been the best thing for the bullpen in the long run, as Ozzie likely would have stuck with him if he only blew 4 of his first 8 chances. Guys being as terrible as Pierre, Beckham, Rios, and Dunn are hurting the team just as badly, but it's not coming off as much because when Thornton does it, he just ends the game himself. We have a long way to go to get ourselves out of this hole, and some of the necessary work to do will entail replacing one or more of these guys.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) Absolutely not. But what is the point of no return then? At what point is it best to be proactive or reactive, rather than patient and trust the data? When you get frustrated and slam your hand against the table? When you've had 6 beers for the night and just can't take another Adam Dunn strikeout? I think you have to stick with Dunn still for a while. I mean, there is no other powerful LH bat. But Pierre should be sitting a lot at this point in favor of Lillibridge or Viciedo. I wouldn't even be angry if they started sitting Beckham a lot or even sent him to the minors for a while. You have to play the hot hands while you have them, especially in our position. And now they're talking about moving Humber to the bullpen while he's our hottest hand. They're making decisions on faulty logic, money concerns, and Ozzie's flawed belief in the stereotypical leadoff hitter.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) That doesn't sound right. I remember the 2 years thing but not the other part. He said, I believe, "I'm still not sure it was worth it."

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:24 PM) Im not to optimistic as in the previous episode Tosh said something to the effect of: "It took us 2 years to get this guy and Im not sure it was worth it." Makes me think that the segment may be lame. I thought the same thing.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) Did you ever think that maybe the key is not to make many changes? That trusting the years and years of data and the history these guys have built as players is what gives them the best chance for sustained success, rather than overreacting to poor results in the short term and panicking? No, some people need to be replaced. Teams often start and end the year with a different player at ____ position due to the inadequacy of the original guy. It's being proactive rather than just hoping for the best. I know, I know. It's much easier to just go down with the ship and accuse anyone of panicking who thinks certain changes are required.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 23, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) randomized double blind studies are rare in all medical literature due to confidentiality, HIPPA and FERPA concerns as well as patient consent. However, walk into an NFL locker room and you'll know. The most obvious sign for HGH is the head changing shape. It usually has the Jay Leno chin effect and the protruding forehead. Of course you can't prove it. there are many studies done on the lower dosage HGH for the treatment of dwarfism and some muscular diseases. All of this research shows the improvement in growth and the increased muscle strength and endurance. You can treat dwarfism? I was also unaware that Leno was such a cheater.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) The Boom Goes the Dynamite guy gets a web redemption tomorrow night on Tosh. One of my favorite viral videos of all time. That video is so awkward that I have a tough time actually laughing at it.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 23, 2011 -> 10:11 AM) Yeah, Humber very well could fall apart (and we have no options in the minor leagues), so likely Humber will be moved out of the rotation and become the swing man -- something I will be vehemently against when it happens since he has been our best starter all year. I honestly think that happens unless Jackson completely implodes. I'm sure that it will go down that way, unfortunately.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 23, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) Yeah, but interleague has only been around since late 90's, so those first 20 years didn't help him. Touché.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 22, 2011 -> 06:23 PM) What? You mean to tell me that because the Sox were horrible through the beginning of May that you can't just extrapolate that level of play through the remainder of the season? This team is actually capable of playing good ball and winning over an extended period of time? Oh, an argument nobody ever made. Got it. Obviously the Sox were not going to play at a .300 clip for the entirety of the season. Many of us are just concerned that they will not be able to overcome the wretched start they had (like they did last year) as they always seem to falter again in August and September (like they do almost every year). That is the concern, and it is a very reasonable one. The fact that our manager doesn't seem to want to make any necessary changes to improve the chances of sustained success only exacerbates the situation.

QUOTE (asmithxc @ May 22, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) Not even that. Sox owe him $4M regardless of whether he plays. That should not factor into his playing time (I'm sure it does, but it shouldn't). I never took a business class in my life, but even I understand the concept of a sunk cost. Despite having to pay the man either way, the team would do better with a replacement.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 22, 2011 -> 09:32 AM) He passed Jaime Moyer, another name I would have never guessed. I don't think Moyer is very surprising. He's been pitching for like 35 years.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 22, 2011 -> 06:47 AM) Adam Dunn is a f***ing square, so you should probably "shape" him up and get him into the proper "form" so he can do his normal home run stuff. Perhaps that's a triangle or the even more rare heptagon. Oh, and if you think Dunn even "might" be the worst offensive player in baseball, I would also "guess" that you haven't been "watching" the Chicago "White" Sox play baseball because "Juan" Pierre has been the worst "offensive" player in the "entire" game. He "is" so f***ing bad that "I" would be a better "player" than he would "be" by standing at the plate and going all "Eddie" Gaedel. This was quite funny.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 21, 2011 -> 09:58 PM) I agree. It is almost imcomprehensible that he would or could be this bad. I feel sorry for him as you know he is a proud fellow as all ballplayers most likely are. They want to suceed. He was to contribute. $ k's today and what was it 2 or 3 K's yesterday. The man looked lost at the plate. He has got to be better than this. He has to be ! I feel worse for the people who are paying his salary, the guy who signed him, and the team that is depending on him. I'm not going to pity a guy making fourteen million dollars a year to be bad at his job.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 22, 2011 -> 12:11 AM) Greg you're projecting some here. For all you know and can see here without going back and reading posts, Cangelosi actually agreed with you the whole time about Thornton not closing. I'm in the "Thornton earned the opportunity and blew it" camp. Bobby Jenks sucks in Boston, and is hurt. I have not, nor will I criticize Ozzie for going with Thornton. He was the logical choice at the time. They weren't using Santos. Thornton was an All-Star so he was the guy. He pitched himself out of the role. Oh well. Not Ozzie's fault. This. You basically had to give Thornton the chance with the way he's pitched for this team. The only issue was the length of time it took to give him the hook. I'm reactionary (no news to you guys), so I would have taken him out of the closer role after the first two blown saves. If not then, it had to be after three. Four was too much slack.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2011 -> 03:44 PM) Mark Buehrle is now the leader in most wins all time in interleague play, with 24. Really? That's cool. Maybe he would be a hall of famer if he played his career in the NL.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 20, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) Who? DAMN IT! What is with all of these mistakes?