southsider2k5

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Sep 22, 2006 -> 08:36 AM) That's our best alliance? The man who won't let US forces in Northern Pakistan to hunt down taliban bases and Al-Qaeda bases which are known to be there? The guy who's protecting AQ Khan? The only thing keeping Pakistan out of the Axis of Evil is that it's a nuclear state. I am sure he is just preventing the creation of more terrorists...

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Sep 22, 2006 -> 08:33 AM) That's not what I'm referring to. Financial resources for Iran were pretty strapped throughout a big part of the 1980s. They had few friends and little werewithal to work on the technology. In the 1980s, there wasn't a lot of interest in helping Iran go nuclear. Their big problem was that Iraq was bombing their facilities and setting them back 20-30 years. It wasn't that they weren't trying, it was that they were forced to start over. Granted no one really wanted to help them during their war with Iraq, but that still didn't change the fact that they were trying to go nuclear, if at that time for no other reason than to proabably drop it on Iraq.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9676427/rss

QUOTE(SnB @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 09:36 AM) The office season premiere tonight. A group of 5 or 6 of us is going to chili's for dinner in honor of the show. Maybe I'll order an awesome blossom, extra awesome. The Gaydar scene at the end of that episode might have been the single funniest ever for the "The Office"

Oh man, I could have some fun with some of these with the posters we have seen over the 4 years of Soxtalk!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14939825/

You know what will happen next, right? Now we will start to hear about the poor local pharmasists who are going to go out of business because of those low drug prices...

QUOTE(Soxy @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) I'm actually pretty excited about it. Woo! ^^^ Me too. I can't wait for that and Earl to start

QUOTE(Soxy @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 01:51 PM) Okay, I do understand what you're saying. But I view Chavez and the Iranian president as crazies. If Merkel or Chirac or Harper called Bush the devil I would be more upset because, at some level, I have a respect for them and their points of view. But having Chavez do it, well that's sort of like getting made at the hobo on the corner who calls you a slut whenever you walk by. You may want to tell him off, but then you think about the source and, oh, right, crazy pants, so you walk on. Boy does it sound like there is a story there

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 12:47 PM) But see, there's no reason at all to do that. The fact that Bush says something or advocates some policy or believes in helping the poor does not mean that every policy Bush advocates is a terrible thing. If Bush proposed giving tax cuts to the highest earners in the US, would that mean that the Iran should immediately raise taxes on the highest wage earners in that country? If Bush says that the Iran is evil, does that mean that anyone who calls another country or leader evil is immediately like Bush?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 12:05 PM) So a quick question...and it can be answered by anyone who has knowledge... Is there actually evidence that people voting who aren't actually U.S. citizens is a real problem? Is it such a severe problem that it is worth disenfranchising actual U.S. voters who don't get the message about needing a photo ID or how to get one free? From the sounds of the rhetoric of the last two President election cycles, apparently voter fraud is rampant.

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Im not quite sure what you mean by that .......... but I read that comment, and to me, the SOX only played 2 extra weeks. Does 2 extra weeks take that much of a toll on a team? Thats secretly why its hard to repeat? We won the WS on October 26th, which means it was more like 4 weeks. That is 4 weeks that players don't have to rest, recover, get procedures done, etc. Despite it being "only 12 games" to some, those are the 4 more intense weeks that any of those players will ever see, as they were almost all one run games, where every single pitch was a game breaking potential experience. The body takes time to recover and adjust from the grind of playing 200 plus games of baseball, when you include the preseason on top of that. Take away 20% of the typical recovery time that the players have been used to, and it makes it that much harder to recover from. The results are obvious, and you don't need to look any further than the exhaustion and nagging injuries the players are showing to see them.

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 11:25 AM) At the same time SS, you can't use history of a different regime (60s-70s) to justify your policy to a completely different regime with its own history, aims and policy. The truth is that the Iranians have offered to come to the table - and they've even offered a parallel suspension of enrichment activity apparently - during negotiations. This is 80-90% of what we want. Except we don't want the negotiations. Otherwise this would be happening already. Our offer was "end the program, then we'll talk about ending the program." Very few states dealing with a hostile actor is going to accept that offer - and there's a needless arrogance to expect a state not at imminent threat of invasion to accept that. We are posturing like a state headed to war with Iran, and that's not a good position to bargain for security. The truth is, if we were looking to be able to wage war with Tehran effectively and at minimal risk, we would give them a lot of what they ask for. Part of the stumbling block to this offer is that Iran will not give up its right to advance its nuclear technology, because it views giving up rights like that as a lessening of its sovereignty. If the US really wanted to avoid the collision course that it's on, or if it wanted to make sure that it had international help and support in a war on Tehran, it would affirm that "All states have the right to pursue "peaceful" nuclear technology to serve the needs of its people." It would also accept a parallel suspension of enrichment as a carrot to sitting down at the table. They started in the 60's and 70's and haven't quit since then. The one constant since the Revolution in '79 has been the clerics, and they sure haven't stopped the search for nuclear materials.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) But basically the idea that they could buy the actual bomb parts from North Korea has almost no impact on whether or not we should talk to them without them shutting down all of their enrichment programs first. If North Korea were to sell them the tens of thousands of centrifuges that they need in order to operate an enrichment cascade, it is still going to take them years to set them up and produce enough material for a bomb. The only thing North Korea could do right now to get Iran a bomb within the Bush Administration is to actually sell Iran a nuclear weapon. If they were to do that, then the "We won't talk to you unless you stop your U235 program" demand is pretty darn pointless, because they'd have gotten the bomb another way. See now I think their motives and history are of the upmost importance when dealing with a topic that has the implications that nuclear weaponry does.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) This is getting funny. In one breath you say that you aren't being condescending, and in the next you talk about growth and maturation and that I should be "ashamed when I am somewhere else in life." What you don't understand is that just because I disagree with you about the Sox and just because I feel differently about Sox losses than you do does not mean that you are a more evolved and mature person than I am. OK I wasn't going to say anything, but if you are going to cut and past to take things out of context that is just wrong. Resorting to stuff like that is pretty crappy way of making your arguements.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 10:26 AM) Well I'll be damned. They are indeed doing what I wanted them to do with the border, more or less. yeah this was all over the Chicago news this morning, problem was that was at 4:30 am, and I forgot about it until you posted this link again

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 10:17 AM) I understand your concern with that completely, but I think it's probably also worth noting that according to the non-proliferation treaty, Iran is fully within its rights in developing a nuclear enrichment program for energy purposes, as long as they are open to the IAEA. Now, their openness can and certainly should be called into question, as should the existence of the program itself. However, I think it is worth noting that the U.S. is insisting as a precondition for talks Iran give up something that they have a full right to do under all international treaties. What Iran does not have a right to do is hide things from the IAEA (which they have done in the past) or enrich uranium beyond the couple percent 235 that is needed for energy generation. Thus far, there is still no evidence at all that they've done the 2nd step (And of course, even if they were to start taking the 2nd step, it would take them about 10 years to build the bomb). Ah but you are missing one very key and easy step... Buying the bomb materials from someone like AQ Kahn or North Korea, and erasing a big chunk of those 10 years pretty quickly. Iran has been actively pursuing a nuclear program since at least the 1960's or 70's, and I don't know about you, but there is not a chance that I believe them when they say it is for "peaceful, civilian purposes" and it is their own actions that belie that to me. If they JUST wanted civilian power, Russia offered to give it to them. Iran, under no uncertian circumstances, refused.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 09:13 AM) Iran has been asking the U.S. repeatedly for direct talks for years. The U.S. has said they will only talk to Iran on the condition that Iran stops its uranium enrichment program in its entirety. Which I don't have a problem with at all. The entire world has tried a million different ways to fix this situation, and the only solution Iran would have is the one thing that pretty much no one else wants, and that is for Iran to be producing nuclear materials. Russia even offered to ship them the materials, let them utilize it for power purposes, and then to take it back after it had been depleted. This would solve the problem of Iran's supposed needing more power capability, and it would also satisfy those who are worried about nuclear West hating clerics. Of course this proposal went no where, which raised all kinds of red flags for me personally.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 09:50 AM) No, it isn't that I don't understand. I just disagree. And your condescension was way out of line. Just my opinion. Funny, your anger has been out of line for months, but that's OK. And it is my OPINION, (I guess I you didn't understand that I was speaking from my perspective, thus making it my opinion and not a fact) that you have no idea what I am talking about, and that is why you are getting so angry about it. It has nothing to do with condsecension. If I thought you were that far below me, I wouldn't have wasted my time explaining myself in the first place. Growth and maturation are natural things and stages of life. There is nothing to be upset or ashamed of when you are somewhere else in life, like I said, it is what it is. Trust me, I am not claiming to know everything or be an expert on anything... but I know where I have been, and where I am at now. I know what I have seen, and I can recognized the patterns that I have seen many times before, and have no reason to believe I won't keep seeing into the future. The whole point is simple, ease up and relax. There is no point in being so bitter and angry over something that in the grand scheme of things means nothing. If you want to keep arguing and keep fighting that is fine, I can't stop you from it, but I am going to do you the favor of not returning the fire and anger anymore. Enjoy and good luck

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 09:14 AM) First, you don't know anything about what point in my life I'm at. You've read some posts of mine about the Chicago White Sox, and that's it. You think that I don't "think in terms of grey yet" because I think the Sox haven't been playing with fire or intensity this season? I think you are reaching...greatly. FWIW, I don't kick my cat when Konerko DP's. And Sox losses don't ruin my life. I recognize the importance of sports. It is just entertainment, but I care nonetheless. Again, you can't experience highs with a team if you don't also feel the lows. They go hand in hand. That is exceptionally rare for human beings. How can one be overjoyed about wins and not care much about losses? You can be whatever kind of fan you want to be. But please don't pretend for a second that your odd outlook towards the Sox is the more evolved way to be. Congrats on the superiority and condescension. You do it well. "When you grow up, you'll be a good, mature fan like me." You have a very high opinion of yourself. Like I said, you don't understand... and that's fine, it doesn't make you any less of a fan or anything. It is what it is.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 08:33 AM) With all due respect, that is silly. If you love a team and really care about them winning, then you are also going to really care about them losing. Is it possible for a fan to be really happy when a team wins but not be affected when the team loses? I wouldn't think so. That certainly isn't the case for me. When they win, I am elated. When they lose, I am crestfallen. Obviously, some wins and losses are bigger than others, but they all affect me. Do you think it is realistic for a fan's upset over a loss to stop as soon as he turns the game off? I'm sorry, but I really care about the White Sox. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been overjoyed when the Sox won the World Series. I don't consider being happy or sad about the Sox being "wasted energy". I don't see how anyone could. Frankly, I prefer it when fans really care. We are never going to see eye to eye on this, mostly because I don't think you are to the point in your life where you think in terms of grey yet. Everything is black or white, horrible or awesome, and no real inbetweens, and that's fine. A part of life is discovering the world in the middle. Yes you can care about something without it bothering you if it doesn't turn out your way... its called priorities. Just because you don't kick your cat when Konerko grounds into a double play, doesn't mean you don't care. It means you realize that in the grand scheme of things, so what. For me the White Sox winning the world series was one of the greatest moments of my life, when they lose, even if it is in horrific fashion, oh well. Did I lose my baby, my wife, my job, my house, my friends, my life... no. Well then, what's worth getting mad about? I think if you look closely at who is reacting to things and how they are reacting, you'll see a pretty clear divide that the older the fans are, the less sleep that they are losing over this, and there is a pretty clear reason for that. The older you are, the more you understand perspective, and in the grand scheme of things, exactly how important the Sox not winning the division is. Now if you ask them if they enjoyed last year any less, they will all talk about how incredible it was. One of these days you will get that. I have been here for a while now, and I have seen lots of people on here change right before my eyes. Just about everyone who has come through here and stuck around for any considerable amount of time has undergone the samekind of growth. Even if none of this makes sense to you now, and from the sounds of your posts, it probably won't, one day it will.

Iran's President had an interesting debate last night with leading political analysts. This is no one connected to the current government, but supposedly this is a big step towards maybe having direct talks and dialogue. http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060921/...COUNCIL-DC.html

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 07:54 AM) That's a lame excuse. The Yankee teams that made the World Series almost every year a few years back played an extra month every season. Hmmm, and with a $200 million payroll you also have the ability to go out and buy new players every year too, which they did, repeatedly. (Hi Bobby Abreu!) (FYI, this might be in response to your post BS, but this rant isn't for you) Look if you all want to waste your time looking at this as "alibi's" and "excuses" you all can have fun. Keep wallowing in your miserable outlooks on all this stuff, and stay pissed off about it, that's fine. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter if you all "give the team a pass" or not. If you feel that things have to be justified to you, once again you completely missed the entire point of my original post. Sports isn't supposed to be a negative influence in your life. It isn't supposed to be something that upsets you to the point where it bothers you past when you turn the game off. You are supposed to get something positive out of it, or you are completely wasting your time. You want something really worth getting upset about, there are pleny of social problems/people that could use a person's energy, as you are completely wasting yourself getting this angry at the Chicago White Sox, any player, or any game. Seriously, some of you need to step away from your computers, and maybe even from your lives and get a little perspective on things. The sad thing is that I know I am probably wasting my time, because the people who really need to hear and understand this, either won't care, or won't get it anyway. Oh well. Have fun, because I am done with this stuff. The pity party is back to being all yours.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 07:44 AM) Well, it is in Asia. I guess I always think of the Middle East of its own region.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 07:29 AM) Some fans just need to come up with alibis. For them, it's never the talent level, it's never effort, it's injuries or bad breaks or something else out of the team's control. The reality is that EVERY team is dealing with multiple players who are injured. By this time in the season, multiple players on every team have nagging injuries that they are playing through. The Sox get no pass because some of the players are feeling some pain or discomfort. That's what they get paid for. The problem is that this team isn't playing with fire and intensity game in and game out. Way too often they just sleepwalk through games. 100% effort every night is not too much to ask for. It is the least that we fans deserve. You really have no clue what is like to put your body physically everyday for 7-8 months, so you might as well quit acting like it. The funny thing about a nagging injury is that it affects your ability to preform at a 100% level. If you have a hamstring pull, you can't run down to first base at full speed, otherwise you turn your pull, into a tear, and don't play at all for months. As I said before, if this team really had quit, the DL would be full of these guys. If they had truely quit, they wouldn't be on the playing field everyday, and this line up would be loaded with guys like Sweeney, Fields, Anderson, Haegar, Stewart, and company. But guess what, to a man, every single one of these guys has gutted it out and showed up everyday that they could, to the point of risking major injury in the cases of guys like Jim Thome, or putting off surgeries in the cases of guys like Joe Crede, to try and rescue this season, and all for fans who just don't understand the sport of baseball enough to get that there is more to baseball than what you see between the lines. QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 21, 2006 -> 07:41 AM) I've heard similar things about Santana, Silva, Mauer, Cuddyer, Hunter, Bonderman, Rogers, Castillo, Rodriguez and Thames dealing with injuries/pain/discomfort. All teams have multiple players with nagging injuries. That is no alibi. How many of those guys played an extra month of baseball last year?