southsider2k5

The people who are in line for the opening ceremonies get into the fest first. its the way it has always worked. Everyone else gets in behind them. FYI, I don't know about the first autograph, but the Brandon McCarthy pitching clinic Friday nite has my name all over it.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 09:37 PM) Rock...you're trying to have it both ways. First you say that the investors own the Sox (a business) to make money. Then you say that they don't make money, that there is a zero sum gain year after year. Which is it? BTW...Southside Irish is absolutely right! And yet you still haven't provided one iota of actual proof. This thread is over.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 08:36 PM) I already posted this concept, it seems that as soon as it is brought up, it is ignored. Well I can respect the guys post. He did a lot of work, and put some thought into it. It was excellent work.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 08:12 PM) Damn do you guys like throwing down. Now for some actual numbers... 2005 final payroll ~ $75 million 2004 attendance- 1,930,537 2005 attendance (excluding playoffs)- 2,342,834 2004 avg ticket price- $22.71 FCI (cost for a family of 4 to go to the game done by Team Marketing)- $171.35 2005 avg ticket price- $25.89 (up 14%) FCI- $188.07 (up 9.8%) 2004 att/ 4 (family)= 482,634.25 x 2004 FCI= 82,699,378.7375 2005 att/ 4= 585,708.5 x 2005 FCI= 110,154,197.595 therefore $75 mill/ 82,699... should approximately equal x/ 110,154... where x= 2006 salary solve for x, x= $99,898,753.12 Again, this does not include the postseason and the ridiculous hike in merchandise sales. Gentlemen, some of you may hate to admit this but Andy the Clown could have been damn right on when he said the actual budget cap was $106 mil. Now that I've gotten that out, I'd like to reiterate the fact that I think trading a package including JC for Abreu(+?) at this time is unwise. We DO need some people in the bullpen after all. So unless we can add an impact arm without giving up the pieces for Abreu, then it just wouldn't work out. Could we trade BA for a BP arm? I don't think KW would do it. I'm just making the point that I don't think the budget is the most contraining issue here. The 2005 figures equate to an average attendance of 28,923 per game, or about 5,000 less per game than this board's "expected" average next season. Nice work. Now if you go back and research net PnLs for the Sox over the years and then correlate it to the net change in next years payroll, you will see it matches almost exactly.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:48 PM) IIT Chicago-Kent, Class of 1990. Admitted to Illinois Bar 1991. Yeah and I know where you work. Your IP and your brother both gave that away. So who is lying, you or your IP adress? QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 05:05 PM) One of the posters said that the Sox historically reinvest the previous seasons' profits every year. I do not believe that. That's what I meant to say. Would you agree that Sox ownership is in the business to make money? Changing the arguement again? I have years of Forbes magazines that give total revenues and profits of all of the teams in MLB and years of historical payroll data that show a direct nearly 100% correlation between PnL and next year salary. They have called the teams in MLB way more profitable than the teams themselves have said. They also analyse data from the biggest companies in the world. Personally I think I will take their factual judgements derived from seeing their numbers vs your totally unsubstaniated hunch. Maybe if you could make any proof that didn't include faulty accounting I could start to believe you, until then, all you have proven is that you didn't even take as much as high school level accounting. Realize that I have been saying this for years and NO ONE has come up with ANY actual data that proves me even questionable in this. NO ONE. I dare you to be the first. Don't change the arguement. Don't challenge my fandom. Find somewhere that states that the Sox are realizing huge profits that are not reinvested in the team. Find ANYTHING. Then maybe someone will respect what you are saying. Until then, give up the arguement. QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 05:23 PM) 1. Abreu improves the team. 2. An improved team has a better chance to repeat as champions. 3. A championship teams draw more fans. 1+2+3= MORE MONEY! QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 05:31 PM) Several points in reply. 1. There are 2 ways we could make more money by winning games; selling tickets at higher prices or by filling more empty seats. We already have set ticket prices for this year, so let's throw that out the window. 2. Therefore, the only place we have to increase revenue this year is to sell more tickets. 3. We have already sold a significant number of season tickets...to a base of over 20,000. We will have many games which are almost certain to sell out...Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, etc. 4. The games which are during the summer will also sell well...simply because it's summer, we've already won a title, and we should at the very worst have a decent team next year.. 5. In other threads, for a variety of reasons...we have estimated that the stadium will probably average somewhere between 35,000-38,000 fans per game this year. 6. This leaves only a limited amount of slack in the form of available tickets. There will be no tickets for games people actually really want to see, and very few for summer games, even those which people don't really care about, like games against K.C. or Tampa or someone like that. 7. Therefore...the only way we can grow the revenue any farther is to find a way to sell more tickets to games with teams that we already should be beating during times when the weather is poor and kids are back in school, since those are the games which will be the most readily available. The question I put to you is this...please prove to me not only that winning increases revenue...but that Bobby Abreu will sell more tickets to games that we should win anyway...and that he will be able to sell roughly 250,000+ more tickets overall, given how many games are already sold out (assuming each fan in the seats spends an average of over $40 on a game, including parking, food, and the cheap, available seating for those games which hasn't been grabbed by season ticket purchasers) I started to answer this, and then saw Balta pretty well killed you on this one. I will contribute one more thing for you to look up here. Its called Diminishing Marginal Returns. Returns on investment are not straight-lined per dollar invested. Just because you add a $15 million player to a $95 million payroll, doesn't mean you get back the same revenues as if you added that same player to a $75 million payroll.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:42 PM) I stand by what I said about my intelligence. I am an attorney. (My I.Q. is in the high 130s.) I have brokered multi-million dollar deals. Most of all, I am intelligent enough to know that there is NO way Jerry and his co-investors have only split even over the years. That is preposterous. Now I know you are full of it. Would you care to back down, or would you like to be proven wrong again.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) Rock...I have forgotten more than you'll EVER know. I can guarantee you that. I am not advocating putting the Sox in debt...let's just use up more of the PROFITS to give us the best chance of defending our crown. Show me proof of the profits that the Sox are not investing. not capital gains either, profits.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) If you're satisfied with just contending...that's fine for you. I'm not. I want at least 1 more championship. I don't care if we suck in 2010, especially if we repeat, three-peat, etc. And therein you are contradicting yourself. Unless you are willing to pay the price for deficit spending, you shouldn't advocate it. If the Sox had followed Floridas example and spent WAY over their means for a couple of years to win a World Series sooner or later they would be looking at a major payroll meltdown. That isn't a could be statement, it is a certianty. You are telling me that you are not willing for the Sox to have any down years, yet you want them to be World Champs every year. They give themselves a better chance every year at the World Series by contending. MLB has proven time and again that you can't contend with a $35 million payroll, and if the Sox go to a $120 million payroll for 2 seasons at their current estimated profitablity that is exactly what they would be looking at in 2 years. Plus it doesn't guarentee that they would win anything. Tell me what the Yankees have to show for their $200 million payroll? They have been the highest payroll for almost a decade straight and haven't won a damned thing since the turn of the century. Plus we heard this crap that people spewed about if the Sox won a WS they wouldn't care anymore, well guess what... these same people who just doubled our season ticket base, will be the first ones off of the bandwagon if the Sox go to last place finish because they are in debt and traded off everyone. And finally, don't think that no one else noticed how the arguement has changed when you got proven wrong, not once, but twice. It went from you knowing how rich the Sox owners were, to me not being as big of a fan as you. Interesting huh? I am still waiting for those figures showing that the Sox ownership is making a ton of cash off of this team.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:19 PM) BUT...if I wanted to borrow money against the value of the house, it has increased by $50K! And your future earnings are reduced by the interest rate you are paying, which is exactly what has gotten teams like Florida and Arizona into trouble. That is exactly why the Sox are a contender every year, and those teams are contenders for a couple of years, and then sell the farm to dwell in the cellar when they are so far in debt that they are forced to make cutbacks. You can't operate at a deficit every year forever. Eventually the IRS either won't let you take losses anymore, or you have to file for bankruptcy. This isn't the US government we are talking about here, it is a business. The money has to come from somewhere.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:15 PM) You gotta take some risks if you want to win it all. We caught lightning in a bottle last year where a lot of things broke right for us on top of that great pitching. Jim Thome Konerko 5 years at $60 million Javier Vazquez $20 million increase in payroll... I think we already took some risks.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 03:56 PM) The current Sox ownership paid something like $25-30 million for the team; it is currently valued at more than $300 million. Is $300 million more than $30 million? I'm not sure...evidently I'm bad with numbers. I don't know about bad with numbers, but obviously are really bad with accounting. You do know the difference between operating profits and capital gains right? Just because your house goes up 50,000 in value, doesn't mean your bank account instantly goes up by $50,000. You don't realize a dime of those gains until you sell the asset, and unless I mistaken the Sox are still owned by the same ownership group that they have been for the last 25 years or so. The only money the Sox have, is the money that they take in. Capital gains, are just that, capital gains. The only other way the Sox have to utilize those capital gains towards payroll is if they take out a loan against them, which only reduces their income in future seasons by forcing them to pay interest against said loan. And by the way, yes, school is in session.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 03:32 PM) Operating on a budget means not spending more than you have. The Sox are FAR from spending more than they have or make. Got any historical or otherwise sources for that? I have the annual Forbes reports which have shown year, after year, after year, after year, that whatever profit the Sox make in one year, the payroll goes up by that amount the next year. If they post a loss, the payroll gets cut by that amount. Look it up. If you have a better source than a World reknowned financial magazine who does analysis of the worlds biggest companies, please let me know.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 03:09 PM) Did Jas PM you...? There's no reason he needs to drop cash on a hotel room. He's going to be alone... Now what did I do with my shocked face.... I know I had it around here somewhere

Ford is closing 14 plants and getting rid of 30,000 workers to try to cut capacity by 1 million vehicles per year. The interesting thing is that their biggest expense that puts them at a competitve disadvantage with the imports is their health care costs. They estimate that health care adds about $1500 to the cost of each car that they sell. Combined with the cuts Ford made earlier in 2000, they will have cut their workforce from about 150,000 to around 75,000-80,000 employees when all is said and done.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 07:23 PM) Why would you respond to a legitimate question when you can bash the media instead? Mostly because I had already explained this 6 different ways to Saturday and no one got it, so I quit wasting my time. Go back through my other posts and pick an answer out, because I have yet to see a question that I didn't already talk about.

Very nice TLAK, it will be pinned for usage until the beginning of the season.

American Pie-Band Camp sucked. Its like they tried to do a Porky's 21st century movie and failed miserably. About the only bright shot was some brief boob shots, and the funniest part came at the very end of the movie... And that was only a girl tripping.

From the funny but true category.... In thread about who is more responsible Ms Antonio Davis or the Fan. QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) One has to watch Bulls games all year. The other is made to watch Knicks games all year. I think both are being punished enough.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 06:06 PM) Oh is THAT where that comes from? I don't need the drivel of Limbaugh, or Hannity, or any other idiot on the radio to think for me. It's obvious enough. Hence why most people quit reading it like a year ago...

QUOTE(kevin57 @ Jan 20, 2006 -> 08:09 PM) I don't know about this. I think this year's (deserved) whipping boy was Marte...and actually I can think of a couple of others whom fans lacerated on a regular basis. Remember, Billy Koch before that? Ouch! Let's not remember him. QUOTE(TLAK @ Jan 20, 2006 -> 08:15 PM) Jerome Dead comes to mind. Lots of guys have their turns. Heck I remember when everyone hated Aaron Rowand and thought he should be traded for batting practice baseballs... Same with Jon Garland (aka Judy to the impatient) Boy would last year have not been nearly as much fun if we had dumped them for the nothing that some were saying we should.

We all know what the Atlantic looked like, but the rest of the world had a very ordinary Hurricane season. Interesting read here. http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMaste...4&tstamp=200601

The deadline had actually passed to get a stadium done... A miracle tear in the time space continuim made sure that it stayed 11:59 for about an extra half hour to get a deal done that saved the Chicago White Sox. If it had "turned" to midnite the Sox were gone.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) And Jon Garland wants to play in SoCal because his wife is from Hawaii and he's from Socal too. Man, I am gonna get so much mileage out of that particular leak... If we are only going to deal with facts after the end result, we have wasted about a million posts on this board... Rumors are just that, rumors. You don't build your house on sand, just like you don't build your team on rumors. Heck even if it was the truth then, something could have changed in between, how do we know Garland didn't have a change of heart?

Nice Scrubs! Where did you get them? I have to order those for my mom.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 11:19 AM) Is Oscar the balding fat guy who has great one-liners like "I picked myself in the secret santa gift exchange"? Oscar is the guy that Dwight busted skipping work... with his boyfriend.