2nd_city_saint787

I woulda had him 4th above Felix and Rodney. To finish 6th in the Cy Young award in your first year of starting is quite the accomplishment. I wonder how many pitchers in their first years finished top 5? I know Fernando-Mania won it his rookie year but thats all I can think of.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 06:00 PM) Yeah, but people are supposed to be able to make friends without becoming drug addicts. My parents don't hang out with me and I have friends AND am not addicted to heroin. Same with Carl Crawford. Same with all non-addicted adults in America. I give the guy a ton of credit for beating his addiction, but I have absolutely no sympathy for him digging that hole in the first place. It is no one's fault but his own. well ya it's his fault for doing it but what I was saying is if he was not forced out of his support system with his parents then he wouldn't be spending hours in a tattoo parlor and making friends with these guys. He didn't know what to do with his free time when he was forced away from his parents so he had all this time on his hands that he ended up using in a tattoo parlor that lead him to the addiction. before having all that free time he was a family man, all his friends were family.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 05:47 PM) No, he isn't addicted to drugs because Tampa Bay didn't allow him to be a "momma's boy," he's addicted to drugs because he wasn't able to make reasonable adult decisions. Carl Crawford was right, he is an adult and can/should act like one. But he didn't, he decided to spend hours at a tattoo parlor doing heroin. If he was allowed to stick with his parents he wouldnt be spending hours in the tattoo parlor making friends with the guys there.

Not that anyone cares... I got the Hamilton book back from my friend who struggled with a pain pill addiction, and he says it really helped me out. I decided to read it again so I can shed some light on his addiction....Basically blame Carl Crawford and Tampas front office for not letting him continue to be a mommas boy. Through his first 2 years of pro ball his mom and dad still followed him everywhere and The Rays didn't like that. He was then alone and at the time injured. He became addicted to tattoos after seeing Carl Crawfords tats. Josh told Carl his parents wouldn't like him getting one to which Carl told him youre an adult now, so Josh went ahead and got one...then 6...then when he got hurt, he spent hours at the tattoo parlor and made friends with the guy who ran the place. These tattoo guys we're trouble and got him addicted to heroin and other hard drugs.... If they Rays allowed him to be a mommas boy he would probably be in the conversation of being the greatest of all time....now he's just a walking punchline because of his past despite being drug free for 7 years....Sad, I respect the hell outta the guy for putting the past behind him and getting back in playing shape and still living up to his potential. I've never had an official Sox jersey but if the Sox were somehow to get him I'd be the first man in line for that jersey.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) Putting a bad team on the field in 2012, 2013, & 2014 and possibly later years, so that Theo can build the organization his way from the bottom up. Then the Cubs will be competitive every single year, or so he claims. So grabbing the #2, 5, & 7 prospect from the best farm system in baseball isn't doing the same thing?

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) I hate the Cubs, but what they are doing is not even remotely the same as the Marlins fire sale part 2. What exactly are the Cubs doing?

Ugh, Detroit SHOULD be so damn good next year. I think Torii is a slight upgrade over Young and they add VMart next year while the only piece they need to replace is Anibal Sanchez.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 03:21 PM) If the new stadium is taken out of the equation... Would people look at what he did differently? Not looking to defend Loria, because I think he's an ass. Just a hypothetical. Think about it... Sign a bunch of free agents to no trade contracts. Trade them all after 1 year for good prospects. Fairly clever way to jump start a system if you could pull it off. I agree with this. It's probably not the right way to do it but it worked. They got the 2nd, 5th, and 7th ranked prospect from the best farm system in the league(2 top 100 prospects). All for guys who won't be around the next time that team is successful. Thats a pretty good start to developing a good farm system.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 01:27 PM) Um, because their owner is Jeffrey Loria. I don't know what this means, he spent a boatload last year...they didn't work out and Lorias obviously impatient. Im not saying that they WILL but I dont see why not. I'd love to be the Marlins GM right now.

Whats to say Miami doesn't plan on spending more massive amounts of money this offseason?? I'd hate for Hamilton to go there but whats to say he doesn't? I could see ARod going home and playing there too.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) So can people understand why guys like FLoyd, Rios, Dunn, and Thornton don't have much trade value right now? Guys with big dollar contracts don't bring back big returns. I'm gonna have to disagree here. The Blue Jays have the best farm system in the league and the Marlins are getting their #2, #5, and #7 prospect in the deal to go along with Yunel Escobar who's a real good SS who's not yet paid the big bucks. Henderson Alvarez also has some potential moving out of the AL East

Unless the DBacks really like Ramirez, or Sanchez I dont see a good match in a 3 way deal. Dbacks have Upton, Kubel, Parra, and Eaton who they like so they wouldn't want Dayan. Dbacks are also set on pitching. If Texas loses out on Upton though I still think Rios for Olt would work and would improve the team....Especially in the long run if Olt pans out.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 07:59 PM) Why? So they can turn around and sign Josh Hamilton of course. =p

My goodness.... Yunel Escobar and ADEINY HECHAVARRIA (copy and pasted not capped for emphasis) are part of the deal... AND Jose Reyes??!! what the hell is Toronto sending back?? (besides the 2 above)...The hell is Miami doing?

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) I'm hearing rumors now that they may have been trying to get Simmons to flip for Upton. Lol, where'd you gather that info? Source? Another thing I take from that story is, if the Rangers are unwilling to trade Profar or Andrus for Upton than that clearly makes Ian Kinsler available. If we can't swing for Olt what about Floyd and Thornton for Kinsler? Move Gordo back to 3B.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) I can't imagine the Rangers would ever do that. Upton>>>>>>Rios. Plus, they just tried to get Andrelton Simmons for Olt. For some reason they seem to be in the market for a SS. I'd offer Floyd + Sanchez + cash, but I still doubt they'd take that. Olt is a helluva 3B prospect. They tried getting Simmons to flip him for Upton. Rios and Q for Olt might do the trick.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/mike-olt/ Looks like Rangers are open to trading Olt for an OF makin some $$...If they can't get Upton, Rios for Olt?

It's obviously going to be trading Jose Quintana and Alex Rios to the Mariners for Kyle Seager and John Jaso....=p

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 08:20 PM) For cap relief. Not for real players. There is a big difference there. I lied in the last post, I'm done addressing his off the field issues though. My views on him are out there. I don't buy Rios as worthless and wouldnt net the Sox SOMETHING. His contract is not that bad. Also wheres the money AJ, Myers, and Youk going? The Sox can take on some salary.

I'm gonna leave it at I'm rooting for the guy, wherever he goes. It's been a fun little discussion

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 06:38 PM) Salary relief and getting back someone useful are 2 very different things. Not only do you want a serviceable catcher, you also want the answer at 3B. Then paying a guy $25 million a year who is one night away from being worthless. His own quote was he basically plays 4 out of 6 months missing the other 2 because of injury or slumps, but says because he still puts up big numbers, its "cool". Don't let his book blind your judgement. I would also suggest you stay away from Lance Armstrong's biography. I'm not saying Hamilton is anywhere near the phony Armstrong, Hamiliton may be a much better guy, might stay clean for the rest of his life, I hope he does, but he's not worth the risk. Just check out those photos of when he was at the bar messed up. If you think alcohol is not a problem for him, try again. Shirt off, licking whip cream off tits, dry humping women. I said and/or a catcher. Meaning I'm ok with giving Tflow the catching job. Maybe I am letting his book blind my judgement but unless he has people pissin for him he's been clean for 6 years. Most relapses happen within the first 3 months. I don't care if he wants to go out and have a good time as long as it doesn't lead to hardcore drug use or effect him at the plate, which so far it hasn't.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:10 PM) Alcohol is a huge problem though. It will ALWAYS lead to drugs, and he will ALWAYS be an alcoholic. If he continued to drink, he would continue to push the limits and he WOULD relapse into hard drugs again. Alcoholics don't have one drink and then call it a night...they will go and drink the night away, and then in the name of spontaneity, they will go and do something else for the hell of it, and, knowing Hamilton's history, that would include relapsing into hard drugs, which could ultimately kill him. I don't consider the relapse to be the main issue in signing him, but "only once a year" doesn't justify or excuse his actions. Once a year for Josh Hamilton is one time too many. It obviously won't always lead to drugs, if it did he would be out of the league already. I'm sure MLB saw the pictures from the bars and drug tested him shortly after.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) OK, the Sox will trade Floyd, Thornton and Rios, get a decent catcher and someone who can take over at 3b making virtually nothing,and spend the money they just saved signing Josh Hamilton. When do you want to get back to reality? I don't see how its that unrealistic at all. Yes I've said a few times that its not gonna happen but not because it can't. 2 execs already said it be "easier to trade Rios for cap relief" so thats not unrealistic Everyone already expects Floyd to be traded, presumably for a 3B. You can trade for one making around 5-7 mill and still be around the salary Hahn put out there. And a lot of people want Thornton traded so I'm not living out of reality right there either.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 04:59 PM) Sure, but the fact that a totally insane, senseless, unprecedented deal happened doesn't give us a realistic point of comparison for other deals. I'm not saying Rios couldn't ever fetch a good player, just that the Wells deal has nothing to do with it because was a total outlier. You're right because when looking at the deals their contracts are not even close...I was wrong, Wells was owed 86 mill, 51 mill more than what Rios is owed. So that reference is pretty extreme.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:41 PM) Yeah, but that's widely heralded as possibly the worst trade of all-time. It doesn't make sense to use that to set expectations. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:44 PM) On top of the lesson that trade gives us, Vernon Wells had no where near the reputation as mentally weak that Rios has. Also none of Wells worst years prior to his dealing to Anaheim were anywhere near what Rios had in 2011. Ya but theirs a huge difference between the 86 Mill on Verons contract compared to just 25 on Alexs deal.