beautox

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 07:25 AM) I'll be honest, I don't know much about Hearn, but to me Newman is a far better prospect than Hayes and Hearn doesn't change the value equation enough to make up for that difference. Having said that, I'd still do that third deal. Hell, I'd do Meadows/Keller/Craig, and Hayes is a better prospect so no complaining there. I also don't think it's an unreasonable offer. Doesn't come close to gutting their system. And gives them an opportunity to go for it this year and potentially pivot at the deadline and deal McCutchen and/or Cole. They may miss Meadows if that happens, but I'm sure they can land a near major league ready OF prospect by cashing in those chips (assuming some rebound by McCutchen). I agree I'm not opposed to getting someone like Newman as the third piece leaving him at short and if the time comes moving him from the organization to fufill a need somewhere else. I also think those aren't unreasonable packages, the pirates get to compete in the short term and if they fall flat can move McCutchen and Cole to restock; as others have posted they're set across most of the diamond and Polanco or Marte could move to CF, lessening Meadows value within their organization and opening them up to find a near major league ready lf prospect if they fall out of it.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 06:44 AM) Easily Meadows/Keller/Newman IMO. I think that last package is far away the weakest. I can respect that, the third package to me is the right amount of both upside and depth.

When all the smokes clears and if you were Rick Hahn and these were the packages presented to you what would you choose and why. Meadows/Glasnow/lotto ticket Meadows/Keller/Newman Meadows/Keller/Hayes/Hearn

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 01:51 PM) Braves and Mariners make another traded. Braves receive: Luiz Gohara and Thomas Burrows (2 lefties). Mariners receive: Mallex Smith and Shae Simmons. Gohara is a really interesting piece, like him a lot.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) Thats putting their eggs all in one basket with Q then. I get your point and I agree that its a risk they should be taking if they are serious about winning but its not a homerun with no risk for them if they do it either. I agree in a sense but at the same time there is less risk in a proven ML all star than the bust rate of prospects. Additionally they're getting major league wins now versus in the future, it becomes even more important for them as they're right on the fulcrum of the win curve where a Quintana and bounce back from McCutchen or break out from Bell puts them firmly in the wild card conversation and if the cubs have a championship hang over or stumble a shot at the central. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:40 PM) I continue to think all this logic is correct and that by the time ST starts it will win out. However, until then, the Pirates can play the waiting game and see if anyone makes a move for McCutchen at a better price or if the White Sox drop their price, because as of right now there is no one making a legitimate offer for Q and they have no other major moves to make so why shouldn't they wait? Absolutely because there is no "deadline" everyone is weighing their options but if the Astro's rivals in the west continue to push all in (Mariners continue to trade, Angels sign Weiters, Rangers lock up Ross etc) it will apply some heat to Houston which in turn puts heat on the pirates as a last call will be coming before the season starts and all this still doesn't take into account the posturing by Cashman about "three elite" prospects trying to lower the price on Quintana.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 01:05 PM) Looking at Newman, Fangraphs gives him a greater than 50% chance of putting up 4 WAR or less total in the first six years of his career. Again, that is not the guy who you want to get as the top position player in a deal. thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q. Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit. For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:12 AM) Rum Bunter ‏@rumbunter 17m17 minutes ago Rum Bunter Retweeted USABEvents White sox fans this guy is going no where This was in response to Austin Meadows being on the cover of Baseball America. MFW opposing fans say their prospects aren't going anywhere when dealing for elite major league talent like Q.

My hope is Hahn just holds out for Meadows, if Bell is seen as a sticking point a deal like this feels about right. Meadows, Keller, Hayes & Hearn. Pirates get to keep their closet ML ready arm and Bell while giving them some runway with Cutch and Q if they fall out of it they can restock. Hayes offers a premium athlete with blood lines that should be between 80-150 at a challenging position to develop. Keller and Hearn offer two nice upside arms that can become part of the second wave of arms(Hansen, Kopech, Dunning) to hit after Gio, Lopez, Fulmer, Guerrero.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 08:26 AM) Glasnow, Newman, and Keller easily gives the Sox the #1 system in baseball. That's a lot. Good enough to move 4 years of Q? I don't know. Newman does nothing for me but scream Gavin Cecchini / Ryan Theriot, that is not the hitting prospect i want headling the package for Q.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:41 PM) Newman has basically no power. Ryan Theriot part deux

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 08:47 PM) Tucker/Martes/Reed/Laureano/Stubbs That is the package I want for Q. QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 08:51 PM) I would take that, and toss in Jennings for them. I agree and like that package a lot and they get some additional value in Jennings for significantly less than what Dunn just signed with the rox. Jennings would've been their 5th best reliever last year behind Devenski, Harris, Giles & Gregerson. They lack a solid lefty out of the pen as Sipp was terrible last year.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 06:25 PM) Via Sean Sears on Twitter : "The #Astros are willing to part with Tucker, Martes, and Paulino for #Sox Jose Quintana, per source" Great now throw in Reed and Stubbs and I'm there.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 04:10 PM) I'll repeat my polite request from a couple of weeks ago: if we're dealing Quintana to the Astros can we please include C Garrett Stubbs in the return? Rated highly defensively (former Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Year), hit .325/.401/.517 at AA last year and is reasonably far enough down their prospects lists that you wouldn't think he'd be a deal-breaker. Thats the boat im in as well. Martes/Tucker/Paulino or Reed/Laureano/Stubbs, less "high end" more depth and floor.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 05:29 PM) Also possible that Gammons is full of s*** with the Astros proposals I feel that way too. The sox "ask" of Marte/Tucker/Musgrove seemed light and a number of people said the sox would've said no to that, not the astros.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 09:27 PM) Acuna is tearing up winter league (take it fwiw), so I'd def want him in any package. Albies, Maitan, Acuna, and Soroka? Replaced Soroka with Fried and I'm sold, a deal like this also squashes any thoughts of being a dark horse for '18 (which is fine) and forces them to commit fully to the rebuild not going out and trading away a Semien one year and a Thompson and Montas the next.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 05:47 PM) Pipe dream: break the bank for Machado. Abreu is the elder statesman. I want to see live in that dream world; around the horn. DH - Fisher* C - Collins* 1B - Bell# 2B - Moncada# SS - Anderson 3B - Machado LF - Beer* CF - Meadows* RF - Basabe# SP - Giolito SP - Rodon* SP - Kopech SP - McKay* - from the '17 draft SP - Lopez CL - Burdi SU - Fulmer

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 12:20 PM) For a quick check, put a name to it and see if it makes sense. Fulmer is someone we're familair with who is coming off a down year and is going to be in that 50-100 range, maybe a bit above your 80-100 but close enough. Melky Cabrera put up 1.6 fWAR last year, is projected for 1 fWAR this year, and was a replacement level player in 2015. Even considering that it's Cabrera's likely last "contract year" and he might have a history of good contract years, would you give up Carson Fulmer for an extra 2 WAR outfielder if you didn't have to pay for it, or would you just go sign Michael Saunders? no i don't think you could get a Fulmer per se but i could see Anthony Alford or Harold Ramirez along with someone like former first rounder Max Pentecost who has had a lot of trouble staying on the field and likely moved off catching. Provided the sox ate a large chunk of his remaining salary.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 11:13 AM) Who is going to give something up for the right to pay Melky Cabrera $15 million to play for them next year? All of Melky's value is tied right into contract, if the sox ate all 15m of it then sure i could see them getting a back half 80-100 prospect for him or a recent draftee that lost some of their shine similar to say Dillon Tate, but outside of that if the sox put him on waivers and he was claimed and JR didn't want to foot the bill he would be gone with no hassle.

I'm torn on this because I too want to see if Saladino/Davidson/Sanchez/Leury Garcia have a future on the white sox in the infield or on the bench. Finding out if Saladino can deliver on his ceiling and become a Mark DeRosa type of player would be huge same for the rest of the lot its important to take this year and take chances on everyone mentioned above as well as Liriano, Tilson and Coats. Its entirely possible that Liriano pulls a DeAza or maybe we hit the jackpot and he delivers on his tools ala Werth, not very likely in either situation but with out the pressure to contend the sox need to see if any of these lotto tickets pan out. Same for Tilson, is he a Denard Span / Austin Jackson type of player or is he destined to become a 4th outfielder and same for Coats can he be a major league bench piece or not? With Avi if he hits and delivers on his promise you ship him out and get .50c on the dollar in a similar situation to Kris Davis, that netted the brewers the #66 prospect according to BP in Nottingham, and while Nottingham struggled this last year in AA still worth it. Avi is going to continue to get more expensive and while you could probably get a deal inked with his agency octagon, they're likely better served moving him if he does hit. The Cards make a lot of sense I would be open for something like this; Frazier to the cards for Jhonny Peralta, Harrison Bader and Carson Kelly. Cards clear 10m in dead salary, give up a top 100 prospect in Bader and a good looking back up catcher in Kelly.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 04:29 PM) As far as I know there has been zero reporting or even whispers that Meadows is untouchable. I could be wrong though. Re: Glasnow The reality with Glasnow is if he walks 5 batters per 9 innings he will not be a starter. If the Sox dont think the control issues can be corrected then he's destined for the bullpen and he's not a headline piece. With Giolito they obviously recognized the Nationals bungling and they have confidence Kopech and Dunning can be developed. If the scouts and coaches are telling Rick Hahn that Glasnow is not a fit unless he's on the back end of the deal he will listen to them, not the general consensus from Baseball America. Glasnow is built and delivers a baseball like recent white sox draftee Alec Hansen, there is a lot to like there. Even in Hansen's SSS within the organization it appears they were able to correct his problems and he may go down as being the steal of the '16 draft, coming into last year he was projected to go 1-1. I agree with you though that Hahn will do his due diligence when it comes to these trades.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 03:25 PM) I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20. To me, that is a fair framework. I would be for Glasnow, Bell, Hayes & Hearn if Meadows if truly untouchable. Even with Glasnow's "warts" if there is a system that could get the most out of him it is the sox. Bell solves a lot of needs and can spend some more time down at AAA to work on his defense and slow his clock while we hope Abreu continues his second half dominance before being moved. The more I look at Hayes the more I really like him and third base can be a challenge to develop, he could be better than his father Charlie. Hearn has health issues and was the piece they received for Melancon, I think if the sox make a trade with the pirates and Meadows isn't included Hearn needs to be included to up the total value of the package over someone like Diaz and Escobar.

After the sox hot start I was ok with the shields acquisition but he looks like toast, wish we had Almonte back in our system, oh well. one suggestion for the big board, maybe consider notating hitters with * for left handed and # for switch. great work though.

Q to the Cubs for Happ, Jimenez, Candelario, Caratini & Jose Paulino, is that a "fair" package while including the cross town tax and who says no? thats three top 100 prospects a very intresting looking catcher and a low level lotto ticket.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 10:34 AM) If that framework actually got done, it would be by far the best trade of the off season for the White Sox. I agree, I have a hard time believing that Q, let alone Q and Robertson is going to return less than Eaton and not be of a similar or greater scope than the Sale trade, its becomes even more pronounced if the sox are kicking in cash (which is fine because anything making more than league minimum should be considered a dead money on the roster, so you might as well spend it for potential future wins).

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) I just think we might be better served with a possibly elite CF than a passable 2B. I mean, in a post-shift world, 2B is a spot where Neil Walker and Daniel Murphy can fake it. I feel like Moncada's toolset may be wasted there. I have heard that argument as well; that range and arm strength no longer matter in the middle infield as much as soft hands.