Dick Allen

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 09:42 AM) Nice switch of arguments. I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players. Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait. Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) The same winter they did that, they dropped a record contract on some dude named Abreu as well. But they aren't supposed to spend money until they are ready to win. Just ask Keith Law. Signing Abreu was dumb.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 09:21 AM) $4/5 million isn't going to kill the team. At absolute worst, if you waived the guy, someone would claim him for just his salary. I am pretty sure with arb awards, you can waive him in spring training, if it ever came to that, and only be responsible for 20% of the award.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 09:18 AM) So you think we need 1.5 starting pitchers to compete and you're still wanting us to spend $15 million on a DH? Absolutely. Fix the bullpen, sign a 4 or 5 starter and Victor. Look to make a trade for a corner OF, and if the better players stay healthy, the team is way more than competive. Hahn is going for it. It was in his quotes at the end of the year. He doesn't want to waste Sale, Q and Abreu any longer. He moved away from the acquiring pieces that had to be part of their long term core line. If Hector Noesi is the difference from fielding a competive team and a non competitive team, there isn't a MLB team that is not competitive.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) JR is smart, they have this profit / lose marginal for every yr of that yr expenses and profit. yeah, he may have lost for 2013 but no one factoring the profits the other yr. nor are they factoring other profits that is not listed that is associated with the running of the org. being smart and taking a smart gamble can get the sox a player like Hector Noesi and looses like Paulino. Dumpster diving...... i love it. the sox did not become a 2 billion org for nothing. I am one of the few who is not sold on Noesi.

Trade deadline is not a good way to judge. Teams could be budgeted out, or may be looking at a different guy. The offseason is quite different. Teams aren't committed to the same players, etc. Hahn knows if he could trade Viciedo. If he doesn't want him and can't trade him, he will be non tendered. If he is tendered. He either wants him or knows he can get something for him.

MLB free agency sucks. Most of these guys won't sign for another month or longer. I love it in the other leagues with the salary caps. It a mad dash to sign someone and for the players to sign before teams become capped.

Yes, according to Forbes the White Sox lost money in 2013. But JR has had his minions tell us they only strive to break even every year. If that is truly the case, they have some catching up to do. The last time they lost money in a season was 2001, since then, according to Forbes, they have pulled a $189 million profit. Can we quit the crying poor for the White Sox? They have even trained the media into thinking they are broke. Remember when they signed Dunn? Paulie and AJ were out the door, until they weren't. JR was asked, "where did you get the money?" "You save a little here, save a little there" that was the response. There is plenty of money. Dumpster diving gets you Felipe Paulino. Get some real players.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 08:33 AM) The same way Iguchi, Everett, Contreras, Pods, Vizcaino, Politte, Hermanson, Dye, AJ and El Duque worked for the White Sox...or the veteran additions the Red Sox made heading into the 2013 season. Remember Napoli, Victorino, Uehara, Gomes and David Ross??? None of those guys were "headliners" like Victor Martinez when they were acquired. Same thing with all the players the White Sox brought in (with the exception of F. Garcia)....Everett and El Duque were among the most expensive additions. But you are going bottom of the barrel. Brett Anderson. It's an upset if he pitches 60 innings, but it's OK to just blow money on him because Jeff Passan thinks someday he might actually pitch an entire season. And it probably is an awesome bet that would happen now, 5 years since he reached 100 innings, coming off back surgery. At least if you sign Victor, you can at least EXPECT production, instead of just hoping. As Hawk said, you want to win, you have to spend money. I honestly don't understand the fascination so many have about keeping money in JR's wallet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 08:22 AM) Just like $60 million will be a HUGE waste of money for Martinez. I'll take 5-10 Anderson's and win that bet every time. The problem is that Hahn has to make much better assessments in that salary range than Keppinger, Belisario, Downs and Paulino (to a lesser extent). Besides, we wasted a lot more than that on Beckham and DeAza with little payoff as well. Yeah, spread it around. $4.25 million for Keppinger, $3 million for Belisario, $2 million for Paulino, $4 million for Downs, how did that work out? All the proverbial low risk, high reward BS that so many like better than actually watching a team win games.You are going to need a lot more than 5 or 10 Andersons to make it through the season. You do not "win bets", let alone win bets everytime loading your roster with players that cannot play even half a season.

Brett Anderson hasn't pitched more than 83 innings in a season since 2010, and hasn't pitched more than 112 since 2009. Coming off back surgery, I don't know how anyone could project him to suddenly be a guy who can pitch the entire season. Giving him $5 million is a waste of money. Sign players that will actually help you win, not guys who will spend most of the year on the DL.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 06:32 PM) If he sincerely wants to return to the Tigers, they may sign him for the 4 years, $60 Million. However if he signs elsewhere, I will be surprised if it is less than 4 years, $70 Million. I would guess $20 Million for each of the first two years, and $15 Million, for each of the last two years. If that is what it is, then I think the Sox should pass. I think he will be cheaper than that.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) No idea. I know that I was drug tested heavily as it was but when you are training so heavily trying to fulfill your dreams I cant see going out before an event or even doing drugs in season something I would do. The problem is people that age make dumb decisions. We all have at that age, and those who aren't there yet will. Combine that with how they have been given red carpet treatment since they have shown they were special athletically, a monster gets created. Some overcome it. Some fall predictably into the trap.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) I mean, some athletes nowadays are just very entitled from their HS careers across the board. If I had a chance to step on the court or field at my dream school I wouldnt be partaking in drugs or alcohol, especially the night before an event. Would you say the same thing if you were 18 or 19 and it ws being shoved in your face?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) Just to point out how solvable this position is every year, in addition to Laroche, here's the WRC+ career for various guys who are also available: Michael Morse's: 122 Kendrys Morales: 111 Billy Butler: 117 Michael Cuddyer 117 Pablo Sandoval: 122 Of the 5, 2 hit LH, one will cost you more than Victor, and the other hit like Leuri Garcia this year and has and agent named Boras.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) What you're saying makes a ton of sense, and I think it's at the center of the logical portion of Dick Allen's argument, too. There is ALWAYS risk with EVERYONE, and to avoid all risk is to not really play. That said, you can accept risk without completely ignoring it. What I'm trying to say is that V Mart is MORE risky than the average (age, injury, outlier season, inflated price, etc.) free agent. He may the MOST risky, in fact. I just think that, in our position, we should not take the RISKIEST step available to us. Remember, I'm all for going for Russell Martin, who is 31 and a catcher and also coming of a fluke season, and many have pointed out the risks in that correctly. But there are a lot of reason to think that's still a safer move than Martinez and will pay dividends for longer. Martinez is just the shortest, riskiest guy. In the light of this World Series, what with two hot WC teams making it all the way to the end despite just barely sneaking into the tournament in the first place, one of the hot topics in saber circles now is the mental re-imagining of what the "win curve" really looks like. If 87 wins gets you a shot at a title, you can make an argument that you're contender even if you're a true talent .500 (82 win) team. All it takes is a couple lucky breaks and a handful of extra innings victories. Hell, you can make an argument that you're a fringe contender if you're a BELOW .500 team. What this means is that there is value in sustaining a decent level of performance, without the peaks and valleys, where there was none before. Now, a 94 win juggernaut only has a marginally better shot at the championship, but costs drastically more in terms of time and money to create. Feast or famine is going out of style. For this reason, if we're going to take risks, it would behoove us to take those that have at least a reasonable shot at offering sustained return. I don't think you can look ahead more than 4 years with any shred of accuracy, but you can make a reasonable guess at how things will likely work out for the next few years at least. To me, V Mart is a bold, one year move that might work for two that almost certainly is a problem after three and four. It's a feast or famine move in an era where the middle road is looking like the most prudent path. Riskiest would be giving one of those pitchers over $100 million or giving Scherzer a 7 year contract. If you are thinking, 3 years $48 is a doable thing, it would have to go a lot higher than that to be as risky as those signings.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) Is it just me, or does Oakland claim a lot of players from the White Sox? It almost rivals KW's love of near 40 year old former Cleveland Indians. And I say this wanting the Sox to sign Victor Martinez.

27 year olds with career ERAs over 10.00 usually get waived. He wasn't too impressive during his short stint this past season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:58 PM) I cannot and will not believe that there will be an offseason any time in the near future where there are 0 legitimate DH options for a team. How about with with a career 125 wRC+ who bats lefthanded (actually both) can be plugged into the middle of the line up, and rarely swings and misses.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:34 PM) A 3 year conract is building forward for 3 years. In 3 years time half the roster won't be the same most likely.If we're lucky Bassitt, Rodon , Danish and Montas will all be established pitchers wreakng havoc in either the pen or rotation. Anything the Sox do now is a bridge or road to becoming that team with the killer rotation. That is what I believe too. It would be nice to think you know 6 or 7 guys in the White Sox regular line up 3 or 4 years from now and/or their rotation and bullpen, but I am not sure if it is BA or BP that projects the line ups 3 or 4 years down the road. They usually wind up with only a couple of guys correct. To say before the Sox fill this huge hole, they need to fill this hole and that hole, is IMO being timid. You need to fill the holes when you can. And if those holes cannot be filled now, at least the one you did fill should be filled for a couple of years at the very least until someone develops or another opportunity arises. Or you still are going to be in the same spot year after year. The Sox cannot continue to waste Sale and Q and to some extent, Abreu. If you are waiting for this system to develop all these players before you take any decent sized risks, history has shown, we will all be waiting a long time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:44 AM) I haven't seen anything about ticket prices going up. How much are we talking? What seats are we talking about? The only person I have seen say anything so far was a season ticket holder who said his entire package went up $1 for the entire season. I have it at home. My invoice is for the exact same as last year, but the chart at the back of the package shows about a $3 per game increase for season ticket accounts which is still a discount from game to game. I am guessing those are for new accounts.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:36 AM) White Sox are raising ticket prices, therefore they should be targeting the same free agents as the Royals. Read again. They are raising ticket prices, which means raising payroll, which means trying to contend, which is exactly what the Royals are trying to do which makes Martinez a "perfect fit" for them. The White Sox could use a little more offense, a little more contact, and left handed presence. Just what he provides.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) I would just respond with what shysocks said, again: Additionally, I think our team is one that needs to invest in some good defense. The Royals are NOT, and thus can actually really benefit from a bat that doesn't take any of their good defenders off the field. The problem with investing in defense is there really are only 2 places realistically they will invest. 3b and a rOF spot. Avasail Garcia, whether we like it or not, is not going to DH at this point. They are going to use a prospect at 2b. Alexei at SS. Abreu isn't going to be a full time DH, and Flowers is a cheap C. Eaton is going to play CF or maybe a corner if they get a CF.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) I think the difference is that the Royals window on contention will likely close as VMart hits the back end of his contract while the Sox should just be entering their window. If the Sox were one piece away for next season he would make sense, since they are multiple pieces away it makes less sense to me. You really want a piece that is going to contribute at a high level from 2016-2019 if you are the Sox, and I don't think VMart is that guy. Judging by the White Sox raising ticket prices in some cases very significantly, I think they are expecting to spend some money this offseason, and expecting to contend in 2015. So really, they are in the same boat as KC.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) Because the Royals are substantially better than the White Sox and are very obviously ready to contend next year. LMAO. How do you get into contention if you are afraid of paying good players? If Victor Martinez is a good fit for the Royals, he is a good fit for the White Sox. Newsflash....Hahn is trying to win, not see if 1 in 100 waiver claims works out.