Dick Allen

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 01:47 PM) How does the fact that the guy that leads the league in IBB bats in FRONT of a guy having an awesome season support the idea of protection? Doesn't that simply support the idea that the best hitters get mroe IBBs regardless of who hits behind them? Miquel Cabrera, MVP each of the last 2 years, generally regarded as the best hitter in baseball, has 17 fewer intention passes than a guy you don't want the White Sox to have any part of. 27 times Victor Martinez didn't get to hit because JD Martinez was protecting him. 10 times, Miquel Cabrera didn't get to hit. Assuming Victor was in the line up each of those 10 times, it is a significant difference. As I stated, Victor has a far better reputation and total resume than JD. Do you really truly think if Cabrera and Victor were flip flopped, Victor would still have 27 IBB if the next guy up was Miquel Cabrera?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 12:37 PM) I don't think anyone cares anymore at this point. It's also relevant since Sale/Kluber/Felix are the three relevant names in consideration at this point for the Cy Young. Sale throwing an easy 96 MPH in the first...great move by Ventura to walk Victor Martinez and not let him beat you, despite how good JD Martinez has been this year. Maddon would routinely walk Miggy Cabrera with a runner at 1B and two outs to put two runners on, with one pushed into scoring position. Hawk and Stone mentioned Cabrera has been intentionally walked 10 times this season. Victor has been intentionally walked 27 coming into today's game. A case against the protection doesn't mean a thing crowd. And that is with JD Martinez putting up numbers probably close to equal to Miggy's. Reputations matter as well.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 10:37 AM) Good stuff, DA. The only thing that would make Davidson a superior prospect to Allen would be their positions. And the line Arizona leaked was they didn't think Davidson could stick at 3B. I am sure , though, that was at least a little PR induced, although he isn't exactly Adrian Beltre with the glove. It doesn't matter now. I hope Davidson is better and can buck the odds and be what they thought he would be. It is just that right now, that doesn't seem like a bet many would take. The odds are better than winning the Powerball. So we have that going for us.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) And I'd say that talent-wise, even after this season, Davidson is still better than Allen. Allen was rated #85 the offseason after he was traded and 99 the offseason before he was dealt. As a 23 year old in 167 AB at Reno hit .324/.413/1.055 with 12 HR and 25 K. His numbers did drop a little as a 24 year old, but he still was putting up an OPS over 900 and struck out at about 65% of Davidson's rate. Saying Davidson is better is based on nothing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 10:06 AM) The White Sox once traded Brandon Allen for pitcher Tony Pena. Brandon Allen never did anything, hit .203 across 4 big league seasons. Technically we won that deal. I still didn't like it and still ugh at the thought of it today. There were some guarantees of All Star appearances the night of that trade for Allen. Reed is better than Pena though. White Sox prospects have been so bad, any with a pulse gave people hope in that era.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) To equate the Reed hypothetical to the scenario you just envisioned, we would need to be sending Davidson to another team in exchange for a statistically declining reliever making a decent relievers salary. You are the one who mentioned the three horseman of the Suck-pocalypse as some sort of equals, not me. Again, no one is trading anyone for those guys, so your scenario doesn't work outside of an opportunity to mention failed relievers as a non-sequitur. I never mentioned trading any of them. I just said if the trade was the other way, and Hahn got Reed for Davidson, all those saying they would still rather have Davidson would be singing a different tune. They would say he won the trade. On a board where people actually rip the manager for not using Snodgrass in a key situation, a guy who has retired 7 hitters in his career and has given up 7 runs 8 hits and 3 walks, it boggles my mind people just don't want to say it turned out that the Reed/Davidson swap didn't work outfor the White Sox. People can hold out hope, but when you hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in year 2 of AAA , you are going to be an exception if you become useful at the big league level.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:37 AM) Today, would you be trading prospects for Beli, Downs, or Lindstrom? Get off it indeed. That is not what I wrote. I haven't seen anyone complain about the price for those guys, which is about equal to or more than what Reed will cost next season, let alone his near minimum this year. If $3 million is expensive, Addison Reed's replacement is going to be just as expensive or even more than him.

This is hysterical. If Rick Hahn traded Matt Davidson and he hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in AAA for Arizona and acquired Addison Reed, the people who still say they would rather have Davidson, would not be saying that. Matt Davidson sucks. He cannot make contact against AAA pitchers. Look at all the high k guys who are at least anywhere near mediocre at the major league level and look at their k rates in AAA. Not only can't he hit, he is bad defensively. I also love the "about to become expensive" line. What, expensive like Belisario or Downs or Lindstrom? Get off it, he isn't going to be expensive unless he is lights out, and if he was lights out, it sure would look good in the White Sox bullpen. A lot better than some guy flailing away in Charlotte.

Flowers has pretty much held his own vs last seasons top FA catchers in McCann and Salty. IMO, I would not mind an upgrade because I think he is just too inconsistent. While the overall numbers wind up OK, and he has had some big hits, it seems to be he is just totally worthless for stretches which are too long. Everyone slumps, but Tyler seems to take his to anither level. And I still don't understand going after Martin if you don't think you can win next year. If you think the Sox are at least 2016 or probably 2017 away from contending, paying him all that money to hopefully still be effective at that point is questionable at best. Martin in the AL with the Yankees wasn't much better overall than the current edition of Tyler Flowers. Even fangraphs agrees. Paying a 32 year old catcher based on his 2014 career type season, basically for his services in 2017-2018, probably would wind up like the Wiley Coyote.

So a 33 year old SS won't be part of the next White Sox contender but the Sox should open the check book for a 32 year old catcher and be willing to go 4 years and $60 million. You have been saying Alexei will slip for at least 2 year. Why wouldn't that apply to Martin?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) They can only deal with the talent given them. I don't think anyone's blaming Ventura for defense...except for the consistent lollygagging that was seen out of some players. Managers can make proper lineup decisions, bullpen decisions, strategic decisions, and handle the clubhouse properly so that the team plays hard. Manager is very important. One person wants to compare Ventura to Madden; the next to a 2X WS champion manager. For some reason people hold Ventura up as some White Sox icon above all critique. No one compared Ventura to Maddon. YOU were the one that said if you lose 90 games in consecutive seasons the manager has fault. I just pointed out Maddon managed 2 really bad teams and according to your criteria, he should now be Joe, from State Farm. Robin has been fine. The bullpen was terrible. You yourself said he had 2 starters. What is his record supposed to be? The game thread is this was wrong that was wrong, all after the fact. Maddon pitched to Abreu with 1B open Saturday night and a runner on 2nd. He was retired, but if Robin does something like that, even if it works out, he is considered a fool and no genius like the guys who do the same thing. Francona pitched to Abreu 3 times in 2 games with 1B open and got burned 3 times. I could only imagine what would happen if Ventura did that.

A minute or 2 short of 4 hours.

Snoddy doesn't appear to be of major league quality.

I wonder if there is a Rays message board somewhere where posters are embarrassed by thei lackluster effort vs. the White Sox B team, and blaming it on the manager.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) Hawk talking Wilkins up, who k'd again He could bury the guy, but that won't make him hit. I am sure he knows what he is seeing.

Avi has increased his walk rate, although it still isn't great, and seems to be hitting fewer groundballs. Despite the red flags, he has a better chance than most of becoming a beast. It is hard to judge him by numbers now since he missed all that time. Semien with a bomb. Hawk as excited about this 4-0 lead as he would be on opening day. Even his haters have to appreciate that.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) On the tanking thing...I'm not saying teams purposefully take the field with the intention of losing. I'm saying maybe teams play 4A guys, or go to 6-man rotations, or shut down their best pitcher with a couple weeks left. Teams have their own agendas at the end of the season that don't match others playing for the postseason. Bottom line for me, it would be a good idea just to eliminate that an individual game could have a huge impact on the draft order. But that hurts the product in the future. One good thing about being out of contention is giving these types of players AB not only for their development, but for the team to be able to evaluate. Just reading this board, many were excited to see these guys play this September. I really doubt you will ever see a lottery. All a lottery really does is tells your customer base teams can't be trusted to give you 100% effort, and really, while it maybe has helped somewhat, in the NBA, there are a lot of teams still playing not to win.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) So you're saying that 20 teams in any given year will be trying not to make the playoffs? That makes no sense. Would you play for a small shot at a wild card or a shot at a really high pick? One problem with your scenerio is it is one thing when bad teams tank but the average and slightly above average teams would be given more motivation mot to take a shot at a wild card spot. I don't see how this stops tanking and I don't think it is rampant anyway. Let the bad teams draft the better players. Most still need to be developed anyway.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) It is a stupid idea because it ruins the overall product to have a significant portion of the league attempting to fail at one time. Bud can be ripped for many things but I think this wild card play in game is genius. In this lottery scenerio being mentioned I wonder how many teams instead of trying to get one of those slots might not play for a shot at a really high draft pick.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) It's not stupid. How is the NBA anywhere close to the same as MLB? You have to have one of the best individual players to win in the NBA. Again, my opinion is that it's just bad to get to the end of the season where lesser teams may be playing other teams with the postseason on the line, and maybe the bad teams aren't putting out their best product to win because it may mean the #1 pick the following year. And also maybe losing the last couple games to get a protected pick and all of that. So it's not stupid to eliminate some of those things, and build in rules to a Draft Lottery that teams can't have top 3 picks in consecutive years, or the #1 pick more than once in a decade. There's a fair of doing a Lottery that makes the outcome of a Mets-Astros game on the last day of the season irrelevant to the draft order. But losing games that do not matter still results in more ping pong balls . There still really isn't motivation to win those games. NBA teams still tank entire seasons . For a while the bad teams were not getting the better players because of signability. The best system is the worst team gets the highest pick. I wouldn't mind if thet did it like fantasy drafts and flip each round and give everyone the same pool amount. I also think most teams use their best line ups when facing teams who are in the hunt.

It isn't like the NBA where if you tank, you draft a guy who changes your team around in one year. They are already almost halfway through the next season when the next draft occurs. I don't think teams tank, at least not to the levels they would in the NBA to get a top pick. Just look at every team's last 10 games. 3-7 is the worst record. Leave it as is. Hopefully, the Sox will be better next year for a long time so top picks, or protected picks aren't even part of the discussion. Besides, if they had a lottery, it probably would be fixed, and the Cubs would win all the time. This draft is still more of a crapshhot than any other, and usually doesn't offer immediate rewards. iMO, there is no reason for a lottery except to possibly make the league more unbalanced. They have made changes to try to ensure the better players get drafted by the poorer teams. If there was evidence of widespread tanking, I could see it on a very limited basis. But there are some legitmately bad teams.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) He's no DeAza........ Speaking of De Aza, I saw Mike Trout De Aza a flyout to CF into a triple the other night.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 08:05 PM) So it appears that the Tampa Bay Rays are the only team that gave Konerko a momento without pretty much being forced to. The other teams were CLE, MIN, KC (AL Central teams), and the NYY (Payback for Jeter gift). And you'd assume the Tigers will do the same for Paulie next week. I was kind of thinking the Red Sox or Angels may be one of those teams, because of 2005 and all, but I guess not. Or maybe even the Dodgers because that's who gave him the first chance in baseball. There were a few others. The Cubs gave him the same thing they gave Jeter.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 07:12 PM) Damnit Robin! Why didn't you teach Avi how to run bases!!! Didn't practice re touching 2nd base enough in spring training, so Avi misses it , has to go back and it out. Robin is the ringmaster of the White Sox circus. Andy Wilkins is getting closr to logging his first career game with at least one plate appearance and no strikeouts.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 01:04 AM) What about overall fielding percentage and team uzr? Team's UZR rating is on the manager?