Dick Allen

I saw there is a report that there may be 2 teams in LA next year. Raiders, Rams, and Chargers are the candidates. The plan is to play in Dodgers Stadium until a new stadium is built.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 04:07 PM) Really, wait a second, didn't someone post in the NLDS thread that Mattingly was fired? D'Oh. And anyway, no 2014 is not the season Robin Ventura deserved to be fired for, 2013 was. Since that didn't happen when it should have, the next time he deserves to be fired is when the Sox spend money and the team fails. If they spend a boatload of money this offseason and they aren't a playoff team, then there better be a darn good excuse for why, because that would mean something went very wrong. So it was Robin's fault Paulie and Dunn made a combined $27.5 million in 2013 and sucked,Thanks for the knowledge.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) So in your world, it's totally impossible for a manager to ever make a serious difference in how a roster performs and managers should just have their positions until they want to retire. Right? After all, what serious standard are you willing to use to evaluate a manager? If the guy isn't drunk off his ass the whole day, it's the players who perform or don't perform, and that standard applies whether they blow up in the postseason or on day 1 of the season. You made the remark that he needs to be held accountable depending on money spent, not me. Simply judging a manager by how the wins correlate with the payroll is ridiculous. I don't agree with everything Robin does, but unlike some, I do realize this isn't a 130 win team with a guy from a message board managing it. Baseball isn't like poker. You can't bluff your way to many wins with a bad hand, and the hand is the responsibility of someone else. If the White Sox spend money on bad players, that is on the GM. If the White Sox have good players and can't win, then by all means blame the manager. There have been so many moves made this postseason where if Robin made them, they would be considered fireable offenses here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 12:19 PM) Depends on how much they spend this offseason. They go out and spend $40 million+ on free agents, which they could do, and miss the playoffs next year, that manager's job better darn well be on the line. You always post like any money spent on players is coming from your bank account. Why wouldn't spending a ton of money on players who can't play be on the guy actually signing them? Is it Robin's fault Keppinger sucked? Paulino? Downs? Belisario? Then it must be Robin's pure genius that made Abreu a star.

There is zero reason why Illinois can't be like Wisconsin or Iowa or Minnesota or Michigan State. The tier below Michigan and Ohio State in the Big 10, where bowl games are expected and really nice runs and a Big Ten title can happen if everything breaks correctly. All of those programs had 20 year or more stretches that were far worse than any Illinois has had. They just need to hire the right guy. Wisconsin hired Alvarez. Iowa, Fry. Beckman was in over his head since day one and it was pretty obvious. Giving him the 3 year courtesy did nothing but make the wait longer for them to be a good team again. Players he has been recruiting know there is zero chance he will be there in a couple of years. That said, they have to make sure they don't hire a guy who thinks its a stepping stone job. That's why I would look for a guy a little older, maybe pushing 50 or even a little older than that, who can recruit and can bring in a coaching staff where his possible replacement is already there. Even if the assitant leaves in a few seasons for a head coaching job, he will have established a relationshiip. Good coaches almost always have pretty impressive coaching trees.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:45 AM) I had forgotten about some of the Bevington era flaws. That would be an interesting thread all by itself. Yes. The signaling to the bullpen with no one warming up was a classic that has never been forgotten, but I can't believe I forgot about his arguing a call that actually went the White Sox way.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:33 AM) Damn that's a depressing read. Say what you will about Kenny, but if the GM version of him had been around in the 1990s, he would have pulled out all stops. Schueler was pretty good for a while. Lamont getting fired was unfair. Bevington, there really isn't an excuse, but he was signing the correct guys and until he traded McDowell, he was making really good moves. After the strike, he got ultra conservative. Signing Clemens would have helped, but would really be tainted. The White Flag trade eventually helped the team. I know JR felt the 2000 division crown was vindication.

I would much rather have Viciedo than Hart.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2014 -> 10:20 PM) Is anyone in danger... well besides Joe maybe getting a management job? I would think Daryl Boston, since he is the baserunning and OF guy, might have some heat on him. Also, coaching 1B, there are things you tell the baserunner, just in case he forgets...check the OFs, maybe something about a pick off move, how many outs there are, don't get tagged out....not to blame Boston, since guys making millions to play the game should know, but it is apparent they need to be reminded. Maybe he is and they still can't figure it out. But I think if anyone is getting demoted or fired, he would be the prime candidate.

Is Williams an idiot or did he do what he should have done yanking Zimmerman after the walk and 100 pitches?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:28 PM) "Making things up" = "4 separate links including one to the source you say you're citing establishing that over the exact time period you asked for". You are truly at a new low. I'm out. This is just sad. Look at page 73 in the 2014 BP then pop off. A low is accusing someone of lying without even checking.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:22 PM) Well, that's 4 linked websites all of which say the same thing, a slightly above average hitters park that sometimes plays extremely above average, versus your word. Everyone else can take their pick about what to believe. Hell, even if you posted the document I'm going to go with what every other place, including BP, says. My word is solid. Anyone with a 2014 BP can verify my post. The only one making things up is you saying they would be 5th if they played at Comerica Park.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:11 PM) 2012: well above average for both righties and lefties, 12 more runs than average ballpark. 2013: above average for righties (105), slightly below average for lefties (97), translating to an above average hitters ballpark. 2014: 104 for righties, 98 for lefties, same story, comes out to an above average hitters ballpark overall (and wondering if Chris Sale isn't impacting the lefties). Did you seriously think that because you posted twice without including a link that I couldn't check? (2011, similar story, 107 for righties, 99 for lefties, above average hitters park each of the last 4 years). I get the BP book every year 100 avg. 3 year avg Runs 99 HR rh91 HR lh102 Runs lh105 Runs rh 99 Go look at the book. And I will accept your apology.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:00 PM) 2010: 4th best hitters park 2011: 14th 2012: 2nd best 2013: 14th 2014: 7th Always above average, overall not Coors but one of the better hitters parks in the league. someone else's version just for good measure: Fangraphs has us as an above average hitters park corrected downwards for WAR in 2013, 2012, 2011, and 2010. Had enough or going to make something up again? Not making anything up. BP has it at 100 the last 3 years. Exactly average.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 08:32 PM) But that's happening in a hitters ballpark. An "Average" White Sox pitching staff throwing in this ballpark would be 8th/10th in ERA in the AL. Put the same pitching staff in Comerica and they're 5th in ERA. It has played as a neutral park the past 3 or 4 years yet no top half of the AL finishes. Next excuse. Also check their splits. Many pitch much better at home.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 03:08 PM) IIRC, he had a ton of injury issues before coming to the Sox. After that he got back on track for a number of years. Again, injuries, Cooper fixed him. Earlier injuries to hitters, Walker did nothing. They were great before.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 12:06 PM) Our front office has done an absolutely atrocious job of finding new hitters since the younger core days of the early to mid 2000's. We have done nothing but add bad hitters, by and large, over the past 5 or 6 years. This offseason was the exception where we added Eaton and Abreu. And haven't developed any hitters. It seems everyone they ever call up winds up with a 20 to 1 k to walk ratio their first stint. As much as the major league coaching staff gets blamed for players' gaffes, it has amazed me that when the Sox call someone up, they seem to struggle with almost all aspects. Hitting, fielding, dumb baserunning. I know there are nerves in play, but these guys have been playing baseball their entire lives and should have had plenty of instruction. They should have some idea of what they are doing on the field.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) Yeah it pretty much comes down to Joe Crede being the only guy in 9 years that Greg Walker can show off and a little Jermaine Dye. Thome was literally a hall of famer. Paul Konerko was a beast before Walker got here and oddly enough had his worst full season ever in Walker's first year here. No idea why Alex Rios is even considered. Hes like the posterboy for Walker's suckage. He was way better before Walker got to him and mostly better after too. He was pretty much dismal under Walker. Dye was an all star caliber player before he came here but managed to improve with age. I have no problem crediting Walker here. Now compare that to Don Cooper who has put guys signed to minor league contracts into Cy Young conversations. Your facts are a little wrong. Walker took over midseason 2003, when Paulie turned it around. Alex Rios was acquired on waivers too. You are missing Quentin. Paulie's comeback in 2009-2011 when most thought he was done. You ignore the obvious. The team loved his work. They were switching hitting coaches like crazy before he got the job, and have already made a change since he was gone. The beat writers, who actually see what is going on praised him. The players praised him. He got the Braves job right away. You just sometimes have to see what he had to work with. When the team ranks near the bottom, much like when Chris Sale goes 12-13, the numbers don't tell the entire story. The only people who say he sucked are fans. The insiders praised him when he was taking heat when he was here which is common, and didn't let up when he was gone, which, if he really was a problem, is uncommon. I still haven't seen 1 player rip him. Considering if Walker ruined as many guys as some think, he certainly has cost them many, many millions of dollars, at least one would have said something sometime.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 10:46 AM) Um that's the whole point. Greg Walker has failed absolutely miserably with his biggest projects throughout his career here. He's never had a guy outperform expectations like ever. Meanwhile we spend next to nothing on the pitching staff and Cooper succeeds often with waiver wire scrubs and such and has our Gordon Beckham of pitching actually performing like the all world talent he's supposed to be. You expected the year Dye put up in 2006? You expected Quentin to be MVP like in 2008? If Gordon Beckham was a failure, then he is also Jeff Manto's and Todd Steverson's failure. In fact, Steverson said when he got the job, Beckham was his biggest project. So the Sox should probably fire him right now. If pitchers fail, there is always an excuse. Why is it Walker's fault Beckham sucked, but not Cooper's fault Erik Johnson sucks? Why isn't it the pitching coach's fault Javy Vazquez sucked, and then puts up a big year after he is traded? The same with Liriano. Why isn't it the pitching coach's fault when the bullpen is horrible when it was Walker's fault the offense was horrible with Andy Gonzalez and Corky Miller getting ABs? Cooper is fine as a pitching coach. I really have never said otherwise, except for perhaps some sarcasm to get under Caulfield's skin because Don is his hero. I just wish some would look at it rationally. Swapping out Walker with Manto didn't help the White Sox offense. Swapping out Manto for Steverson didn't help the White Sox offense. Signing Abreu, trading for Eaton...those are the things that make the offense better.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) Oh yea, when he first accused Wittenmeyer of making up something out of whole cloth, he also mentioned that he was using anonymous quotes and that he should attribute them The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. Bryant can't "be on board" with the Cubs plan of not calling him up, so the CUBS can save some money and service time. But his agent is Scott Boras. He will not hold it against them. If he is as great as projected, the Cubs offer him the most money when he becomes a free agent, he will re-sign. But 6 years is a long time. Maybe he is gone by then. Maybe he sucks. Maybe Theo is gone. But logically, there is no way he is happy about not getting called up, being screwed over, just because the team can. It makes sense for the Cubs, for sure. I don't blame them. But Bryant is getting a raw deal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Except the BMOC specifically mentioned a RHSP, first on his list. Which is exactly what JR mentioned about a month ago. A back end right handed starter. I think it is safe to assume one will be added.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Why would anyone be disappointed with that? Because White Sox fans are the most self loathing (team-wise,not personal) fans in Chicago. I am guilty of it, but say something positive about anyone other than Abreu or Sale, and someone is usually posting how wrong you are. Take Q, the guy ranks the last couple of years basically as an ace, but while many here acknowledge that and give him his props, others still say he is a #3 starter. A couple of posts above said the Sox have no power. They were 4th in the AL in homers, then went on to say they are even worse power-wise without Dunn and could upgrade LF, 3B and DH and still have no power? Really?Also, he mentioned defense. Upgrade in 2 spots, probably have a GG SS, a plus CF, but the defense cannot be any good. He actually thinks the Sox can get 2 top end bullpen guys, a #2 starter, an upgrade in LF, 3B and DH and still won't be any good.

I have the feeling a few posters would actually be very dissappointed if KW is correct and the Sox actually have a good team next season.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:29 PM) Nobody has said they love Steverson, but there was a noticeable change in approach amongst the hitters in the lineup this year. Swing at hittable pitches, do not swing at unhittable pitches. It's much easier said than done, but there were a few guys who looked better at the plate compared to last year. Ultimately results matter. Take Abreu off this team and Eaton, Steverson is universally and unfairly just the next idiot to hold that job. I really doubt there is anyone out there that can change many careers. You may help one guy like Walker helped Paulie when he took over midway through 2003, but Paulie was pretty good before he bottomed out in 2003. The vast majority of guys don't make big strides because of the hitting coach or wouldn't there be some sort of hitting coach saber stat? Unless they talk about it, we never really have any idea who really pays attention to these guys. IMO, they get hired for their philosophy and fired if that philosophy isn't what they preach or they don't work hard or, and I think this is what happens most often, fired just because they make cheap sacrificial lambs. Teams constantly swapping out hitting coaches don't usually see the team OBP rise or OPS rise unless they swap out a few players. One exception was when Cleveland fired Eddie Murray, but that team hated him. A friend of mine emailed me an article last year written by a club coach for youth Soccer. I wish I still had it, but basically he said there are so many parents who spend 10s of thousands of dollars to get their kid a great coach with some club, and are ultimately dissappointed because the kid winds up average, and isn't scholarship worthy. He said basically no matter how much money you spend, if your kid has average ability no matter who is showing him what, chances are he or she will wind up average. If there is somebody that makes average or even pretty good hitters great consistently, they would probably be paid more than most players.

I was watching Butler, and I think I would stay away. He hit a few line drives last weekend, but the ball doesn't have much zip coming off his bat. Maybe I am being a little too simple, but while I think he can come back and hit for a decent average, I think his power is what it is, and that is pretty unacceptable for a guy you really don't want playing the field at all, and a guy who rolls into as many DPs as he does.