Dick Allen

I think its officially time to start wondering about Davidson.his fielding lately may be worse than his hitting.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) Teams might decide they'd rather pay more in prospects (less in dollars) for above average, young pitching. It appears they want major league hitters. Something the Yankees can't spare.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 06:56 PM) Wow. There goes the Danks market, if there ever was one. How does that change the Danks market? The price tags couldn't be more different.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:31 PM) Eaton seems to have very poor baserunning instincts for a guy that has good speed. His SB percentage is not good and he's constantly sliding headfirst needlessly (and recklessly). That said, he's getting on base nearly 36% of the time, over 500 PA that's 50 more times that Jose is batting with a man on versus the typical 310 OBP of Sox leadoff guys the last few years. It would be 25 per 500.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 06:09 PM) What's the fascination with JR Murphy? Supposedly the White Sox targeted him in the winter.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) •The White Sox have had scouts watching the Yankees‘ surplus of minor league catchers in recent weeks, fueling speculation that the Yanks would like to acquire John Danks. Per MLBRumors The Sox would have to sweeten the package for Murphy.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) If they don't see Nieto as the future I think the more realistic trade would be Lexi for Sanchez+ in the offseason. I've been a huge Danks supporter but I'd be a little surprised if they can get Sanchez for him. JRM just doesn't excite me. If they think Neito has a chance in a year then Martin/Suzuki make sense for a year. Nieto has surprised me. I thought he would be like watching a pitcher hit this year. And the coaching staff has done a great job protecting him.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 12:21 PM) One of our writers actually witnessed this back in May. Beck was using his fastball almost exclusively in that start. We don't know the exact reason WHY he was doing that, but he was. And whether or not that has been the issue all along, we don't know either. Though it is hard to believe he's been doing that all year. I have significant concerns about the lack of K's, but I am also pretty sure you have to take some of the stats with a grain of salt. Especially since in a Spring Training Tribune article the Sox minor league pitching coordinator said Beck needs to work on his breaking ball.

Alexei was the opening day CF for the 2008 White Sox, and wound up playing primarily 2B that season with Orlando Cabrera the SS. Alexei became the full time SS in 2009, so that article is a bit off.

I think the John Danks sucks argument, look at his peripherals is a bit shortsided. He is obviously not what he was, however, you take away the 3 or 4 games he just gets tagged, he is still really effective. I would trade him, but I don't think he's the trash he is being portrayed to be. There should be some value in putting up a less than 3.00 ERA in over 80% of your starts.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) Conor could have played 1B. Fathom had the right idea about PRing with a pitcher. PRing for Konerko, which I agreed with, necessitates an out-of-the-box maneuver regardless. Completely agree with the bolded, FWIW. Yes but you can't blame him for not using a pitcher there. Not much experience running bases. I heard Rienzo mentioned, but you may have to use Rienzo later. It would have had to have been a starter, and if Sale or Q or Danks or Noesi either get hurt or make a baserunning blunder, guess who the idiot is? The Sox would have needed Garcia and Flowers to cover one infield and one OF position. As it was, I think Leury was going to play 3B with Conor going to 1b. But if the Sox used Flowers for De Aza, Leury or Flowers would have had to have been in the OF, unless you were OK with playing the rest of the game with no pinch hitters and no DH.

Willie Chill is Willie Harris. Juice Franco a non mention. That guy was awesome as a White Sox.

Steverson is getting a lot of credit, but what does the White Sox offense look like without Eaton and Abreu? Pretty bleak if you were to ask me. He would be considered just another stooge.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 11:16 AM) We're talking about a difference of ~3K, so a bit hyperbolic on the first bolded. Second bolded is simply wrong - ADA's DP rate is ~4 times as high as TF over the past year (the advantage of being a K machine, I suppose). 450 points of OPS easily trumps all this anyway, sorry. Sample size and an overemphasis on recent results are the only legit arguments on your side. Feel free to make them, but we're never going to agree that hitting ADA there was the right move. Of course this is true, we aren't, and again, just a guy on a board, NOT being paid millions to get out in front of game situations. And if only the qualified were allowed to comment on managerial competence (or anything else), the internet would be a corpse. The other thing to consider is maybe he was thinking 2 steps ahead. Sierra pinch ran for Konerko. Someone said unnecessary, but with runners on 1st and 3rd down 1 with Abreu now out of the line up, you probably have to go for the win there. Other than the obvious about Sierra being more likely to score, he also has to be held on which opens up the infield and has a better chance of breaking up a DP if necessary. With Sierra now essentially the DH, he cannot play in the field in the bottom of the 9th or the Sox lose their DH. Viciedo fans, now if Flowers bats, if he comes through, Tyler is your first basemen the rest of the game. Robin probably like his odds De Aza puts one into play or Beckham who had hit Perkins well, did something better than he did. Obviously, I would rather the game be tied with Flowers playing 1B, Leury in LF, which is probably how it had to go down, but the players didn't come through. It's on them. Not the manager.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 10:36 AM) Well, I wasn't the one making the no experience=bad hire argument. My take is that he was hired for his personality, rather than his intelligence, which I believe is wrongheaded. I'm just a guy on a message board, not a bigshot like you, Brooks. Verducci (who I'm generally not a fan of) made a good point yesterday that I think is at play here. He essentially said that in the current era, a team's culture is set by the FO and that most managers are mere extensions of the FO now, with a few exceptions. (Maddon, Showalter, maybe Girardi) In the case of the Sox, all logic has been discombobulated by the Ozzie experience - they merely want a dutiful soldier. That's aiming too low, imo. I am just pointing out we all have less "experience" than Robin. Saying he's not qualified because of that should mean we aren't qualified to point out what he does right or wrong.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 10:22 AM) Back in April did anyone think that the board would freak out because Moises Sierra wasn't used as a pinch hitter with the game on the line? Or how about 2 weeks ago and Tyler Flowers? Another funny thing is Robin is constantly criticized for putting too much weight in L/R R/L match ups, yet the second he doesn't make a move for one and the Sox don't win..................

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) We're not candidates, so, irrelevant. Not irrelevant. If you are saying this experience is required (which BTW, Robin has over 400 games under his belt)yet you don't have it, wouldn't that mean, using your own critieria, you have no idea what you are talking about? If you need this experience to manage, I would imagine this same experience should be needed to be qualified to know what is the right move and what is the wrong move.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) The personnel shortcomings certainly aren't his fault. As for managing the team, it's not his fault in that he didn't hire himself. But wasn't qualified for the position when hired, and he manages strategically like his resume suggests he would. But you seem to know what he should be doing strategically. Can you share your resume?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Why do you always put word in people mouths ? Yea Tyler sucked 2 weeks ago and people wanted him gone. But now he was hot so there's nothing wrong or funny about wanting him to PH NOW not 2 weeks ago. You paint everyone with the same broad brushstrokes. The people condemning Robin don't do it based on results at least the more knowledgeable ones don't. They do it based on playing the odds or percentages of success and failure . If Flowers or Sierra had pinch hit and had the same result as De Aza or even worst at least he made the right move for that particular situation. The outcome is irrelevant. no one is assuming Tyler or Sierra would've succeeded in that situation. That is just you arguing against yourself telling us what others would have done as usual. Again the manager should be out there to survey the situation when his pitcher gets f***ed with. No one is saying Bellasario would have pitched better if he had. Again that is on you. All Beli needed was a pair of scissors. Herm went out there. What exactly is Robin supposed to do? You do realize if a Minnesota pitcher came in wearing a rubber band and had a couple of pounds of rosin on his forearm, he would have asked for it to be removed? These are grown men. Not 8 year olds whose dad is sitting on some bleachers expecting him to be a major leaguer. Many of the same people who say Robin has to show players "he has their backs", have criticized him previously for not publicly embarrassing them either in the press or in the dugout when they screwed up. Another inconsistency.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Why do you always put word in people mouths ? Yea Tyler sucked 2 weeks ago and people wanted him gone. But now he was hot so there's nothing wrong or funny about wanting him to PH NOW not 2 weeks ago. You paint everyone with the same broad brushstrokes. The people condemning Robin don't do it based on results at least the more knowledgeable ones don't. They do it based on playing the odds or percentages of success and failure . If Flowers or Sierra had pinch hit and had the same result as De Aza or even worst at least he made the right move for that particular situation. The outcome is irrelevant. no one is assuming Tyler or Sierra would've succeeded in that situation. That is just you arguing against yourself telling us what others would have done as usual. Again the manager should be out there to survey the situation when his pitcher gets f***ed with. No one is saying Bellasario would have pitched better if he had. Again that is on you. All Beli needed was a pair of scissors. Herm went out there. What exactly is Robin supposed to do? You do realize if a Minnesota pitcher came in wearing a rubber band and had a couple of pounds of rosin on his forearm, he would have asked for it to be removed? These are grown men. Not 8 year olds whose dad is sitting on some bleachers expecting him to be a major leaguer.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 08:27 AM) Does anyone believe a system that places this much power with the owners and almost nothing with the high school athlete is fair? There should be some way for the kid to be playing mlb organization ball. Boras' system is about as good as it gets. Boras system making these guys free agents, albeit with a ceiling of what they can sign for, still means a few teams would have all these players sign with them, while other teams , even if they offer the max, will always come in 2nd or 3rd. It is actually very rare this occurs, and would not have occured IMO, if the Astros didn't have the 2nd pick overall next year to fall back on. There is no doubt in my mind Aiken got screwed, but it is hard to imagine a system is totally slanted against a 17 year old who is guaranteed $3-$7 million before throwing a pitch above high school level. I do think the advisor vs. agent thing needs to dissappear, and let them have people with experience who know what is going on negotiate for them, but the idea of more free agent HS kids getting paid is exactly what the slot system is trying to avoid. Let the worst teams have the best shots at these players.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 08:24 AM) Poster's aren't paid to look 2 or 3 moves ahead or manage the team but Robin is. So it really makes no difference when they say the moves are iffy because they are iffy. If you realize it before time, during or after, they are still questionable moves and I don't see you denying that. So you are basically saying, in hindsight, if it doesn't work out, Robin should be criticized, because he had to do something wrong. I had no problem with the moves he made. I do find it funny people who thought Tyler Flowers needed to be relieved of his job a week or so ago, now complain he wasn't used to pinch hit, and automatically assume if he pinch hit, he would have succeeded. I'm sure if Robin did what they now said he was supposed to do and pinch hit either Sierra or Flowers and they rolled into a DP, he would have been an idiot as well. There was posts criticizing him for removing Carroll, and the crap where if he went out to the mound to see them take Beli's rubber band off would have made it a whole lot better is beyond laughable.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 08:06 PM) Okay, the dudes having fun about his glasses are chill with me, but you're on the naughty chair. He's hitting .243/.299/.350 with a .371 BABIP and a 35.4 K% (dead last in the entire MLB). He's put the ball in play 166 times, for 62 hits. Applying the league average BABIP of .300 (his 2011 BABIP was .261, his 2012 .301 and his 2013 .261) to his line gives him 50 hits. Add his 6 homers, divide by his 280 at-bats and an average BABIP would have given him an average of a clean .200. Even assuming all 12 hits he loses were singles (which is generous because he's had extra-base hits that normally would have been outs, like that double which span and then hit the bag), that would leave Ordinary Luck Tyler Flowers with a line of .200/.260/.307. He's just not an MLB hitter. He also ranks 66 of 96 in catcher framing, so it's not like there's some insane hidden value. When they had that article about him last week talking about framing, I figured he must rank pretty high if he is the one being quoted. I looked it up and saw he was way down on the list. I figured I must have been missing something, but apparently not. If his glasses are the reason he is hitting now, good for him. He isn't nearly as bad as his previous 100-120 ABs showed. No major league position player is. He'll cool off again and the call for Nieto will return, but might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 08:04 AM) That's the problem when you don't bother reading the whole thread or watch the game or read or take part in the game thread . Those were not the major points of contention. Trailing 4-3 Abreu led off the 9th against left hander Glen Perkins with a single and Robin pinch ran for him ( Leury Garcia ) because he's the tying run . Good move pretty accepted and expected strategy. PK pinch hits for Dunn and gets a single moving Leury to 3rd so its 1st and 3rd no outs. Another good move by Robin not letting the LH Dunn face the LH Perkins. Then the questionable move. Robin pinch runs for PK with Moises Sierra when De Aza who is batting .083 against LHers is 2 hitters away. Sierra is RH along with Flowers who is red hot and also on the bench. Now we all know PK is slow but is he the go ahead run . Maybe if Viceido who is up now hits a double Sierra scores whereas PK wouldn't or maybe Sierra can break up a DP since we've seen Tank hit into a few of those before. Now Robin has known all year that his bench is a little short since PK can only pinch hit and not play any other position. SO maybe, just maybe you think ahead, ok what if PK gets on base I might need my other RH's to pinch hit with Perkins being lefty and all and De Aza being really bad this year against lefty's . SO if I pinch run for PK maybe it should be one of my faster pitcher's or a pitcher who's not a starter ( don't want them running the bases) but if I use a reliever and it goes extra innings I could need that pitcher. Or maybe I just wait before I pinch run for PK but I better pick out a reliever and tell him to stretch his legs and if the game ends up going 15 innings I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but the main thing is getting the tying run home. The main thing is getting Leury in from 3rd. That's the tying run and Perkins is one tough son of a gun. Damn it Viciedo K's Conor is up . He sucks against LH's too but not half as bad as De Aza and he 's has a good eye. Well hmm Conor works a walk now Sierra is at 2nd base and I can't use Sierra to pinch hit because he's pinch running but I still have Flower's since Nieto started and he's red hot. Ok so if Flowers pinch hits Sierra can still take De Aza's place in the OF and Flowers can take Neito's place but then I have no catcher if Flower's gets hurt. Ok Leury's still on 3rd. Yea maybe I shouldn't have had Sierra pinch run for PK .Maybe Rienzo could have run though we don't really know how fast he is but we do all know PK is about the slowest man in baseball. Robin has to know De Aza is terrible against LH this year . Sierra is a better choice so is Flowers but he wasted Sierra on the go ahead runner when just getting Leury in was the main thing.. So any way De Aza also K's Gordan flies out to left . Game Over. Carrol pitched 6 strong innings but the reason he didnt start the 7th was because of a blister and I'm pretty sure most knowledgeable Sox fans said hey good job Carroll and weren't upset when Bellasario came in. Before he threw a pitch the umps said he had too much resin on his left sleeve and told him to take a bracelet or rubber band or something off that he was wearing under that sleeve and they cut off his sleeve at the elbow. Robin stayed in the dugout the entire time his pitcher is being messed with. That is kind of odd. I think most managers would've come out and said wtf why are you f***ing with my pitcher and to gauge how Bellasario felt about it. Well Bellasario was angry ( his post game comments)and proceeded to wet the bed. Walks the 1st hitter, then Thigpen visits the mound. Gives up a single next ,a wild pitch and another walk before he is replaced. So these are the things that some of us questioned. So you are saying there is zero chance you would have fried Robin if a go ahead run didn't score because Konerko wasn't pinch run for and the Sox wound up losing? When Sierra came in, I was in the gamethread. Where were all the 2 or 3 moves ahead posters then? They sure did manage to find their way to posting AFTER the Sox didn't score and were looking to blame Robin for something.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 06:02 AM) Back up the truck-whose talking about trading Sale and Abreu. The focus was on Alexi who will be turning 33 years old in September and his value will never be this high again Alexei is still a really good player. I know a lot of people would love the Sox to plug 3 or 4 rookies in the line up next year, but guess what, chances are if they did that, the team would really suck. I'm sure the Sox are trying to win. Unless blown away by an offer for Alexei, it makes little sense to peddle him just because people get excited about trades. It's about improving the team. Sanchez at SS over Alexei does not improve the team. The Charlotte Knights are stinking up AAA. They would be worse in the American League.