Dick Allen

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) I'm not suggesting walking away from every 32 year old at all. I'm suggesting staying away from paying a guy $100m to be good for 2 years and bad for 3. This was about Choo specifically, because of his flaws and likely market demand. I mentioned a few pages back I'd love to add him at the right price, but not at anything that approaches what I think he'll get. I wouldn't give Choo $100 million either.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:06 PM) Studies have been done on this and while I can't find the article now, this is actually backwards. Pitchers have a tendency to get injured more often (comparatively speaking), to see their arms break down and lose velocity and break on pitches, and to have more randomized developments (unexpected loss in velocity, failure to develop secondary pitches, failure to throw effective breaking balls with lowered seams, among others). I don't recall the exact numbers, but among 1st round draft picks, it was something like 60-66% of college hitters play in the majors, 50% of college pitchers do, 50% of high school hitters, and 33% of high school pitchers. I read some article that said pitchers who throw 98 in high school and get drafted seem to throw 88 four years later. I do think college pitchers are easier to evaluate than hitters though. One thing that makes hitters harder to evaluate is aluminum bats. Wood vs. aluminum is a different game. You don't have to square it up on an aluminum bat, plus you can get a barrel a lot bigger at a light weight.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) A recent paper that shows large regression beings at age 29. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&a....52164340,d.aWM Yes, but that's on average. There are guys that regress when they are 22. It may be playing Russian Roulette, but signing 31-32 year olds who are in good physical condition, and have been putting up good numbers for several years IMO isn't a bad idea, as long as you aren't going crazy with the years. Obviously, you should look for red flags. If Prince Fielder were a free agent this year, even though he will be 30, I wouldn't sign him to a 5 or 6 year deal at what he would command even if I had unlimited funds. His dad fell off a cliff right around that age, and Prince's body screams breakdown. I wonder how many hits Tony Gwynn would have had if he would have eaten a few less donuts and been able to stay on the field more often. I think guys can play very overweight when they are younger, but after 30, playing 50 lbs or more overweight probably isn't going to work. Most guys don't even become free agents until they are 28 or 29.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) In other words, you need great, great players to win titles. Been the case since, I don't know, forever. Generally, the better the players you have, the more books on your genius you can write. I do think Phil is/was a great coach though. The Bulls were a bad call away from the finals without Michael.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) You are telling me that just because he was a productive player until he was 43 and played until he was 45, there is not that big of a different between an .837 OPS and a .766 OPS? Because that's a silly argument. There is absolutely a significant difference and using an example of a guy who most consider to be one of the most durable players of all time is probably not a good comparison to most players in the majors. I thought Hunter and Martinez would struggle. Martinez did in the first half. Hunter has an OBP of .286 in the second half. None of this surprises me. I expect the struggles to continue next year and, while that team is great right now, I expect them to be in trouble in 3-5 years. I seriously would not be surprised to see the standings reversed come 2017. If the Sox sign guys to 1 and 2 year deals this offseason and then deal them at the deadline (assuming they don't compete), I have absolutely no problem with it so long as they aren't blocking prospects. If someone could guarantee you McCann would be your catcher for the next 4 years and put up a .766 OPS, I bet you would think signing him is a good idea. And Hunter's OBP the second half is cherry picking stats. I don't know how you say that's because he was 38. Don't 25 year olds have halfs like that? I could come up with stretches for every player where they aren't so good. Hunter signed as a FA with the Angels as a 32 year old. He had a higher OPS with the Angels than he did with the Twins.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) Detroit was already a playoff team, and then they added a 38 year old on a short term, low risk contract. It may not be a general rule that players fall apart at 32, but absolutely IS a general rule that they get worse, sometimes gradually and sometimes suddenly. Those moves made sense for Detroit, who was just in the World Series, not for us and our 100ish loss season. I am not talking about this year, and I don't endorse signing someone for 7 years who is 32 years old. But walking away from every 32 year old is a mistake. There are plenty of 32 year olds who can have a small regression but still be better than what the White Sox can put on the field right now. I think they are going after Abreu and McCann myself. Ideally, they get both, but I'm thinking they would be happy with at least one. I also think they try to add a couple more guys to very short term make good contracts, and depending on how well that goes, trade from their pitching strength to get someone who can hit. They have to bolster the offense, and while they may not be able to totally do so in 1 offseason, I think they will make enough moves to at least keep it interesting. We probably have to hope for Tank and Garcia and Beckham to blossom next year to be elite, but there could be enough to win even if they don't. Look at Cleveland. Reynolds was so bad he was DFA'd. Swisher and Bourne haven't exactly been spectacular, and Asdrubal has been not so good himself, yet they have a shot. As bad as the Sox have been, they were in a lot of close games where any kind of offense gets them wins. These losses at the end count, but they aren't playing with a full deck because of being out of the race so early.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) He was a Hall of Fame catcher who showed great longevity. Let's look at some numbers though, right? In Boston - .284/.356/.481/.837 In Chicago - .257/.329/.438/.766 You see our point Not that huge of a difference considering he played until he was 45, and a catcher. In fact, his age 33 season was one of his worst as a White Sox. I think, while some players fall apart at 32, considering it a general rule, is way off, especially if speed isn't a major component of his effectiveness. Plenty of players are productive until they are 35 or 36 or even 38. People here worried about Detroit being the greatest team ever because they signed a 38 year old and had a 34 year old coming back from injury.

Carlton Fisk came to the White Sox as a 33 year old, often injured, catcher. Now, a lot of people here wouldn't have touched him. With as much as Stone has been mentioning McCann, you would have to feel the Sox will at least inquire.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 01:12 PM) He might be in "injured" territory right now. Hopefully whatever was bugging him all preseason heals soon. I hope that's it. I don't know if he's being doubled all the time or not, but he was in the past and you still knew he was in the game, as he did tons of damage. Through 2 games, the average undrafted free agent DE could have made as much impact as Julius. The Bears pass rush has been pretty non existent so far.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 09:35 PM) Seahawks defense is very impressive. "Anyone who thinks Seattle has a good football team needs to study more"- Hub Arkush 9/5/13

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 08:00 PM) Considering that the Twins and White Sox combined have 5 more wins than the Mariners and Astros, clearly you should be embarrassed by that post. But then, you're too busy celebrating white sox losses to actually know a thing about baseball. Marty claiming personal attack in 5,4,3,2......... His entire routine just repeats itself over and over. If you don't know the score of the game or how the Sox are doing, go to Soxtalk. If Marty is posting, the Sox are losing. He is in his glory.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Can Henry Melton be any more MIA in 2 weeks? 2 tackles, 1 tackle assist and no pass rush at all. Between him and Peppers, you don't even know if they are active for the game. This Bears team has more weapons on offense than they have had since the league starting throwing more than 15 passes a game.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 11:29 AM) There maybe no team that is interested in Upton ay half price. I don't know. Define top prospect by the way? A prospect that will more than likely help the White Sox contend. Plus a guy a reasonable owner wouldn' t have his GM committed for even suggesting they spend $30 million to acquire. Not a guy you would get for 2 months of Matt Thornton.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 01:08 PM) What are the expectations for Abreu, I have no idea. Besides that, are 3-5 in the rotation going to get better because they absolutely have to. After all that, the pen is an issue as well. If you have no idea wha the expectations are for Abreu, why did you post this: As I've detailed before, there quite possibly is a team out there that would trade for Upton if his price tag were $25-$30M over 4 years. Take the $30M hit on the payroll over the next two years and the prospect. The Braves get rid of the entire contract, the team that traded for Upton gets what it wants, and the Sox basically buy a prospect while keeping their long-term financial flexibility. Better than Abreu for 4-years? I would say yes. And what team is interested in Upton and what type of prospect can you "buy" for $30 million? C'mon Marty, provide specifics or quit trolling. And a team is going to take on $30 million of Uptons contract AND give you a top prospect back? If you are that high, you need rehab.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:23 AM) It's important for you to have safety in numbers, be part of a pack. Sad really. I stole an idea from Dan Bernstein, omg. First prove it, second who gives on damn? The thread is on this board from months ago. That's the proof. And if no one should give a damn, why don't you just admit you are bringing up old threads because you want to argue and bait?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) Now its the Indians rebuild you are trumpeting. Good old after-the-fact Dick Allen strikes again. Just showing you an example of something you said doesn't happen.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) Now its the Indians rebuild you are trumpeting. Good old after-the-fact Dick Allen strikes again. Trolling, trolling, trolling Marty is trolling Rawhide. Josh Hamilton, Andre Eithier, now BJ Upton. Marty couldn't GM a lemonade stand.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) Dick Allen I didn't expect any different from you. You have shown zero ability to think outside the box. Keep loving that Blue Jays rebuild fella ROFL. Not a bad idea, but they had a ton of injuries. BJ Upton. Marty is ridiculous. But I won't take the bait and fight you anymore on this. The others all see what you are doing. BTW, you aren't thinking outside the box. You stole this from Dan Bernstein.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 10:55 AM) The problem is this team itself. How do you go from losing 100 games to contending buying free agents. See 2012 Cleveland Indians.

Marty is just trolling again. Dan Berstein brought up this concept of teams dumping bad contracts and sending along prospects as bait. He was also mentioning salary caps and other things thinking MLB is the NBA. Teams don't give up top prospects unless they are desperate. Teams also get an additional $25 million to play with starting this offseason. There is not one example of a team giving up a top prospect for taking on a bad contract. Then BJ Upton is mentioned. He is owed $60 million the next 4 years. What prospect, even if the Braves were so desperate to get rid of Upton, do they have that is worth that price? It isn't going to happen. The board panned the thought, Marty decided to bring it back for arguments. He is covering his bases though. He did mention a couple of months ago, the "heavy lifting" of a rebuild was done. He also mentioned if a rebuild was done "correctly" it could be accomplished in 2 years. Now he is saying 2016. No matter what happens, he will tell everyone he was the first to tell you what was going to happen. Just read his posts for comedy.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 13, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) I thought that was because Youk was on the team? That was a byproduct. I don't know if Youk would have sat out the game or not, but he was limping to the finish line at that point last season.

Santiago is the only pitcher I know who can pitch 1 inning, give up 2 baserunners and no runs and still throw 31 pitches.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 13, 2013 -> 01:18 PM) No, but they've done it in years past for the same reason. Maybe Jerry just has a lot of respect for the Jewish players/fans and wants the game to be done so they honor the holiday correctly. I think last year was scheduled to be played at night and they either changed it, or made sure it was a day game this season so the Jewish fans could participate.Last year, it was an important game. This year....not so much, at least for the home team.

I wonder if JR tried to get today's game rescheduled to night game so he would have a legit excuse not to watch.

The Sox also took a big chance with Joe Borchard. They gave him a lot of money at the time. He looked great as a 21-23 year old minor leaguer, except for the strikeouts his numbers were outstanding. Supposedly a great guy and hard worker as well. Total bust. Of course he was turned into Thornton, so not nearly a total loss.