Dick Allen

If Gavin Floyd requires a major league contract next season, if you are a GM and don't say "pass", you shouldn't be a GM.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) Kingham is not a fringe guy. Probably the 3rd best pitching prospect in that system. He's a good get. I'd rather have position players though. It's a moot point because neither Rios or Ramirez is netting the White Sox someone like Polanco. Funny thing is if Bowden was a GM, he wouldn't make that deal from either side.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 09:50 AM) I think you only get 30 days for injury rehab. If Floyd signs a contract for next season, it will be of the minor league variety.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) And you really believe they're going to commit to an additional $30-50 million per year in free agent contracts this offseason to make that happen? Even if they WANTED to spend that money, there's no guarantee they can get that package that makes sense for us to compete from among Ellsbury, Choo, Granderson, Utley, Morales, Lind (he'll probably stay in TOR) and McCann. And this whole concept of trading Santiago for a so-so or decent return vs. a bounty for Sale...they're going to end up regretting it, IMO. Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, Crain off the books. $25 million in additional TV money. There will be plenty of money to spend on hitters.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 08:19 AM) Where did you get the trade part? Because they were hesitating to name him in the future rotation and putting Erik Johnson's name out there as well? I don't understand why they would ever want to hold onto Peavy and Danks ($30+ million per year, 25% of payroll) when they already have Santiago and Quintana...? I read where a scout said the scouts were there for Santiago the other night and this said if he's not dealt after his name. either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt)

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 07:57 AM) Still talking about Santiago NOT being in the future rotation, possibly...c'mon. They need to do more than just trade 3 relievers...otherwise, they'll be forced to spend big-time in free agency, or they're going to punt on 2014 (making the presence of Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Danks and Dunn basically dead weight, and the reason for not dealing them now an enigma). Choose a path though, being in the middle isn't a good place. General manager Rick Hahn paints a rosier picture for the White Sox's future than many observers and fans can see. Hahn believes the team can be strong because its rotation is under contract through next year and ranks first in the American League in opponents' batting average (.244) and third in ERA (3.89). That was before Dylan Axelrod was peppered for seven runs Wednesday night in an 8-5 loss to the AL Central-leading Tigers. Hahn wouldn't address questions regarding potential trades leading up to the July 31 non-waiver deadline before Wednesday night's game. But from his comments to four beat writers after spending most of the afternoon on his cellphone, it appears the Sox are looking for young hitters in return as part of any deals that likely would involve relievers Jesse Crain, Matt Lindstrom and Matt Thornton. Many teams also are interested in right fielder Alex Rios, who could command two bona fide prospects. Hahn has dispatched several scouts to evaluate prospects from minor league organizations, including the Braves, Blue Jays, Rangers and Red Sox. And Hahn emphasized the Sox won't rush any of their prospects just because a position may become open. The 2014 rotation could consist of All-Star Chris Sale, John Danks, Jose Quintana, Jake Peavy (who will pitch Sunday for Double-A Birmingham in a rehab start) and either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt) or Triple-A Charlotte standout Erik Johnson (if Axelrod's struggles continue). “You are going to compete in this league with pitching, and we feel we have the nucleus that is going to help us compete,” Hahn said. “The bulk of our struggles this year have been on the offensive side. That's something we are going to have to improve. “We are not going to rush guys up because there is an opening at position X. We aren't going to put our best guy in the system in the big leagues because there's a need. We have to be careful these guys develop at their natural pace. We tend to be aggressive and give guys opportunities as soon as they prove they can handle it. “But when a guy is going to make that jump is going to be dictated more by their personal development case as opposed to our need.” Offense is a priority because the Sox entered Wednesday's game ranked 10th in the AL in batting average despite their 23-hit attack Tuesday and because of the overall struggles of top prospects Carlos Sanchez, Jared Mitchell and Trayce Thompson. On the bright side, Sanchez, 21, was 8-for-19 in his last four games for Charlotte. “I think he is still the youngest player in the International League,” Hahn said. “You have to judge his performance a little bit through that prism.” The Sox haven't settled on a permanent position for Sanchez, who can play shortstop and second base. “We are leaving things open,” Hahn said. “There's no need to decide yet, so we won't.” mgonzales@tribune.com It's the second time in a few days I've read about Santiago being a part of a trade. The Sox obviously don't hold Hector in as high of regard as many on this board. Maybe they don't think his style will translate into long lasting continued success. Maybe they think he is an injury risk. It obviously is something other than results.

Viciedo is finally heating up again.

It appears Axe's fairy dust has finally worn off. For his talent, he did provide the Sox with several good outings.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 06:21 PM) 100 percent agree....he did however mention Peavy going forward btw. Which also could be for show. If he is set on dealing Peavy, letting the other teams know isn't going to help the bids. Might as well let them know you consider him a big part of the future, it will at least cut down on some bulls*** conversations.

I'm sure a package for Sale would also include a successful major leaguer or 2. It all depends on how long the team thinks it will be before it is competitive again. If its next year, you should keep him. 2015, most likely keep him, but if its any longer, Sale is no guarantee to be the pitcher he has been 3, 4 or 5 years from now. 5 years ago John Danks was looking like a 23 year old future ace, and now people question why he was given an extension last year. Sale has missed games last year and this with soreness. I doubt that will improve. It never hurts to see what a team might be willing to give you. There is no obligation and you might be wowed by the package.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks. Lillibridge, Marquez, Castro and Molina were probably considered major-league ready or near ready when acquired.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 12:19 PM) KG/Pau they definitely should have done something there. Those guys were both better than anything currently available. It might not have put them over the top, but it clearly would have made them better, probably taking them from a 45-50 win team to a 50-55 win team depending on the exact deal. To be fair, they supposedly tried on KG. I forget the exact deal, but supposedly the Bulls offered something big and got turned down a year or two before he was actually traded, so maybe that wouldn't have worked (something like Chandler and the Tyrus and Noah picks). The Pau deal was a joke, but it sounded like they traded him before really evaluating the market (I seem to remember a ton of GM's bewildered at the trade and how little he went for). You can blame the Bulls there, but the same is true for a lot of teams. Dwight and Melo are moot because they weren't signing here (at least that was the situation at the time). OKC moved Harden a year too early for the Bulls. Had they made a decision THIS off-season (which would have been smarter, he was still cheap last year and he'd be a restricted FA this year), the Bulls would be in a much better position with Butler looking like a serviceable piece and Deng having an expiring deal now. Then again, they might have had to pay the tax for a year, which seems to be a deal-breaker for them... If they would have picked up KG or Pau, I'm thinking they probably don't get Rose or win a title anyway. Kind of like when they lost the coin flip and wound up with David Greenwood instead of Magic. It did eventually lead to MJ.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 09:42 AM) But if they were worried about Rios's recent slump, those worries may have ended yesterday., I agree. One game probably doesn't really make a difference, but a good week definitely could. It is important he look like he can contribute right away and for the rest of the season. There is no sense acquiring him if he is in a slump and looks like he could struggle for a while or looks like he doesn't feel like playing when you are doing it for this year, so there is a tighter window to evaluate and project than normal.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) It's the 21st century. Do they really need to have a "closed door" meeting? There are so many means of communication to get your point across, it's not like addressing a whole team. They probably were just discussing Peavy.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 06:40 PM) Walker has been too aggressively promoted. Sometimes the White Sox push guys to age appropriate levels while (I assume) fully knowing that they don't have the track record to warrant being there. There is some chance that Walker catches up age-wise and becomes a contributor, but it will wind up being more like Jordan Danks, who needed to repeat AAA until he became a hair on the older side for that level. Danks is another guy where you can look at his year-by-year stats and find yourself thinking, "huh? why did they send him to AAA so fast?" He was 23 when he first appeared in AAA. That isn't out of line at all.

As bad as the major league team has been, some of the Sox top hitting prospects are making this season an even bigger disaster. Mitchell is probably close to done. Sanchez has been pretty bad. Keenan Walker a disaster. Hawkins obviously was in over his head, and is very youngbut has anyone ever had as tough of time as him making contact and then gone on and become a productive major leaguer. Trace Thompson jhas had flashes, but nothing seems to indicate he is a sure thing either. As caulfield would write....sigh.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) The team is NOT competent, though. It's not even CLOSE to competent. Our winning percentage is below .400. I'm not saying that tanking is the key, but do you really think it makes sense to keep him and add 2-3 more wins to next year's team? They have some pitching. If they could get just some hitting, it could be a totally different story. BTW, I read the guy who was really being scouted yesterday from the White Sox was Santiago

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:11 PM) The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later. What is the point of KEEPING Rios? If 2014 is a year the Sox are trying to win, his 1.5-2.0 WAR average he has had the past several years in a White Sox uniform is probably better than anything you will get trading him. It all depends on what teams are willing to give up for him.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:42 PM) And Frank Thomas That could have been an issue but Frank was with the A's. Supposedly, Rios had to be stopped from attacking KW.

Alexei being traded is risky. The Sox don't have another SS, and the good ones aren't cheap financially or what they will cost in terms of talent to acquire.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) Who didn't KW have a problem with, besides Buehrle, Konerko, Dye, Peavy and Thome? Then again, he probably had issues with Jake as well...trying to remember, probably about the way he became injured. Rios is only one I know where it almost came to blows.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 03:03 PM) This is a fallacy -- there are dozens of variables that are different now than back then. The two biggest are (1) the risk -- regardless of age, he is signed for 1.5 years with a team option now versus 5.5 before, and (2) the market -- he's the best OF available in a very thin market where there are more contenders and fewer sellers than ever before thanks to the second wild card. You could say its a fallacy, we will only truly know if he gets traded. Scouts reporting lack of effort and a big slump especially since neither are new and could last a while, doesn't help Hahn if he really wants to move him.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:19 PM) I'm on the same wavelength with most people here. I don't believe we'll move him at this point because it seems unlikely that he'll fetch the talent that he's worth to us. Rios is a guy we can build around if we want to and if we change our minds, I'm betting he has more trade value at that time in the future than he does now. He has certainly been one of the more enigmatic players we've had, though. As far as 2011, I still don't understand that season. I rarely think the manager has much to do with anything, but it sure seems that Ozzie has infected a few players over the years with bad play. Rios, Dunn, and Swisher come to mind. Ozzie and Rios are buddies. Rios had a problem with KW, and it almost got physical.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) Frankly, yes he was worth his contract at the time. Here's Fangraphs about him when they were trying to move money away: Why couldn't they get anything for him? That has nothing to do with Wells. I think it was his numbers declined a little bit and he was getting the reputation of not really caring. The 2010 BP when discussing Rios mentioned "the gaggle of scouts who think he just doesn't give a damn".

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) He also had 5.5 years remaining on his contract at an average annual value north of $10M. Now he has 1.5 years left at a reasonable rate and an option year. Far different circumstances. I have said this several times regarding the possibility of moving Rios - the SOX are not going to trade him if they don't get a meaningful piece back. Why on earth would they? No one is knocking on the door the minors in RF, he is paid what he deserves to be paid, if not less, and he is one of the guys that actually improves this team. If he a mental midget? Yes. Is he soft? Yes. Does he always play hard? No. But Rios is a very solid everyday player that is signed to a reasonable contract. If they can't get a very good prospect for him, keep him in RF until 2015, or until someone gets desperate and overpays. There is ZERO point in trading him off for nothing more than salary relief. If he is worth the contract now, he was worth it back then when the average per year was even less, and he was entering his prime. It is interesting Gonzo had that quote from a scout, because the same thing was being said at the time the Sox acquired him. Maybe there is something to the theory he is bothered by trade talk, although he has loafed when he was untradeable.