Dick Allen

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 17, 2013 -> 02:40 PM) Mark Reynolds is a fair comparison, and he signed a 1 year 6 mill contract in the offseason...Dunn has been the more productive player both this and last year, so I think the 7-9m range is about right. Once again, if the Sox plan to compete next year I'd just keep him, if not I'd chip in half his contract and trade him. That was getting Reynolds without getting anything back. I don't see where it does the Sox any good to pay Dunn $6-8 million or more to play for another team next year. Money shouldn't be an object with many large contracts off the books, and it's not like they have a couple of guys raring to go in the minors. They are better off keeping him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 17, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) I don't buy that today's advanced stats have settled anything. I'd bet money in five or ten years, there will be another generation of new stats to replace the current crop and fix all of the biases and bugs in the one's today. At the end of the day, all of the numbers are going to have some level of bias built in, if for no other reason, than what does the person who created them feel is important. In baseball, there is no one right answer for that question. All of these numbers tell a story. I don't buy it either. How many players have a bad avg. bad obp bad OPS but are good with the advanced and vice versa? Every number will have flaws, and the goal really isn't to value what they did in the past but to put a value on what they will do in the future, and as hard as they try, no one has that formula locked down yet. What should it matter if Adam Dunn was worth 1.8 wins in 2012 or 1.4? What matters is his next AB.

So if you look at his advanced numbers, and his outdated OPS numbers, even with all his strikeouts, and all his home runs, Adam Dunn in each circumstance comes out at about an average to slightly better than average DH. Teams don't pay those guys $15 million a year if they have a choice, let alone give you something of value for the opportunity.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 17, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) Another thing to keep in mind with Dunn is that hitters with his power no longer grow on trees. That power will be more valuable going forward. He's still an instant impact game changer. Lets not forget he also led the league in walks last year. Well, I read how good Dunn is, how good Rios is, how Cardinal fans would love Ramirez. Why do people want the Sox to rebuild? They apparently are stacked.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 17, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) From a few weeks ago.... If money isn't an issue with the Orioles then this would somewhat confirm that they'd be interested in Dunn. He's been much better than Reynolds this year and has actually struck out less..... But the Orioles professional hitters have never seen or want to be around such ineptitude right greg? The thing is money is an issue with everyone. Any team would take Adam Dunn for the minimum. One team will take Adam Dunn for $15 million, and that is because they are contractually obligated.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 17, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) If you went out this December and tried to sign a FA 1B/DH who you expected to put up a .350 OBP and .490 SLG, how much do you think it would take? I bet Kendrys Morales will be less than $10 million a year. He hasn't made what it will cost for Dunn in 2014 his entire career.

Considering it wasn't so long ago most of this board wanted Dunn to either retire or the White Sox to outright release him, a couple of the posts here amuse me. First off, Adam Dunn is overpaid. He's has no defensive value. He doesn't do anything for you with his legs. He has been getting on base the last month and a half at about a .400 clip, but to expect that to continue is insane. He hits homers at a clip that rivals most players not named Chris Davis. Is there $15 million a year value in that? No way. Is there value in that to give you back a decent prospect? You would be laughed at. The Sox can't get any interest in Ramirez and are finding the pickings slim for Rios. They both offer you more all around anyway, and are cheaper. As I have stated, Dunn is one of the few reasons to turn the game on anymore, but the chances he keeps his hot streak up are pretty slim. He still will hit around 40 homers because that is what he does, but unfortunately, unless the Sox pay his salary or get very creative, Adam Dunn alone isn't going anywhere.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 06:11 PM) This is third place I've seen it reported and nobody says who we got back. I think that tells you all you need to know about what we thought of Carcillo. About the only thing I ever liked about Carcillo was that he brought the Cup to the Rush show.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) The factor in this manager mess is Don Cooper. He was extended before Ventura was hired and he, reportedly, was one of Ozzie's big detractors. Ventura was hired despite not being on a bench in a decade for 2 reasons I think - he'd be loyal to Williams and he'd work with Cooper. While I think the Sox have been poorly managed this season (and weren't managed well last year either), Cooper may be a shadow manager here too as well. When you hire family, it's not easy to get rid of them. But the Sox really need to bring a group of baseball professionals in here next year. I always love when people who have never been in "on the bench" make it such a huge issue when criticizing others. If it is such a factor, how can you have any idea about what you are talking about if you hold yourself to your standard. Robin haas been with young teams, veteran teams, good teams and bad, and was always considered a leader. He is doing a fine job, and just like Torre, Cox, and LaRussa before him, will go from being an idiot to a genius as soon as he has better players to manage. And Robin didn't come to be Kenny's yes man. He doesn't need the job. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He wanted the challenge.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 01:37 PM) Wise is going back on the DL at Charlotte with a hamstring injury. Tekotte is younger and should be on the team instead of Wise anyway. Axelrod will go to the bullpen and Peavy will be with the team on Friday to start Saturday. They aren't down a guy. They could have waited until after Friday's game to activate Peavy but it's not like they need 8 relievers for Friday night right? They probably just want Castro back at Charlotte for Friday nights game. Technically they aren't down a guy, but in reality they are. If Peavy isn't pitching until Saturday, you might as well keep Castro around until Saturday and activate Peavy then, just in case.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 12:23 PM) How can you say that definitively? I'm not trying to challenge you, I just want to know what people are looking at when they are deciding that RV is the reason this team is losing. Because to me, it's because they suck at hitting and defense. Is RV not requiring them to practice hitting and defense? If that's the case, then sure, but otherwise, I think the players are just f***ing sucking. All his pitching change problems combined don't add up to be nearly the problem than the team offense right now. Not only that but Hawk has been saying for a couple of weeks, the Sox are working on their defense and fundamentals just as much if not more than last year. He mentioned they did in spring training as well. As much as it is unusual in 2013, sometimes you actually have to blame the person who is screwing up for screwing up.

If Peavy isn't pitching until Saturday, why would the Sox be a man short on Friday? Something else must be going down.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) I seriously can't fathom how anyone could honestly write and believe "it'd be over for him as a hitter" about a 20 year old. There are a lot of Little League stars who were done as hitters as 14 year olds. If he can't figure out a way to make more contact, he's done. That said, it is still early, but his K rate has to be near a record level, and these aren't exactly future major league stars that are handling him very easily. Considering how bright his star was shining 6 months ago, his decline may even be more alarming than that of the major league club.

Hawkins with the whiff....now has fanned 14 times his last 18 AB. The fact that this is not improving has to be a concern to the White Sox.

As dissappointing as Dunn has been, he is one of the few reasons to tune into a game anymore. I would still dump him. Dunn and Rios for an Olt lottery ticket and an A ball hitter. Then go Christmas shopping in the winter. It is a pipedream, but if Texas would pick up the $$$$.......

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:35 AM) I am sure it will be Peavy off the DL. I wonder if Castro is the right move though And it probably means Peavy is Friday's starter. No sense activating him to sit on the bench a couple of days.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 03:20 PM) Now that's a heck of a reason to give them away: because a manager who shouldn't be here doesn't like them. And if he did like the players people would say it was proof he didn't know what he was doing because they can't play. RV cannot win on this board. It's funny, posters say the Sox talent level is weak but they don't win because the manager is bad. Personally, I would like the White Sox to put a little more weight on baseball acumen, and a little less on being "toolsy" when evaluating players. Something of a mix. Obviously they need to have talent, but not always more is better. The Sox need some baseball players, not just athletes disguised as them.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) He's also the kind of guy that can get a GM and a manager an extension. Your glass isn't even half-empty, it's always empty. You talk about Jesse Crain like he's a year away from a senior discount when he's been one of the best relievers in the league. Alex Rios is a good player who, like everyone, wants this situation resolved, but Hahn has to get scouting reports and offers and evaluate and posture, and other teams have to do the same thing, and all the while Rios is twisting in the wind never knowing where he's going to be employed the following day. It's not easy for him right now, but he's handling it like a champ. Maybe relax and let it all play out. Rios has hit 1 homer the last 52 games. I don't think it's accurate to pin all his struggles on trade rumors. I personally think he would be far better off going to a team like Texas, where he could hit 5th or 6th and being really a secondary player than going to a team like Pittsburgh where he will be counted on to be a difference-maker with a spotlight on him.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 07:33 PM) Unfortunately that exists too. I just don't understand the "entertain me" mentality. If everyone had to take steroids to get to the big leagues, then it's just pro wrestling. It would kill the sport because I think most people want it clean, and we're smarter than in 1998. If it's just known that everyone is juiced, that's it for baseball. It hasn't hurt the NFL. I really wonder if they came up with a test tomorrow that absolutely could not be fooled, and every MLB player had to supply a sample, if there would be enough players to complete the season. And don't forget, most MLB players were on greenies for years, and while they won't enhance you like steroids, they do help you a bit during the long season.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 10:55 AM) IF it's true the Biogenesis suspensions will roll out next week you will see a lot of action on the trade front right then. When the story broke a month or so ago and they named several players, they did say there were a couple more huge names that weren't on there. This is going to be interesting. It looks like MLB would be very happy if ARod and Braun never played again.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:48 PM) So your best hitter doesn't even get an AB? Genius. Not only that, but if the game goes on, pinch hitters are done, and you have pitchers hitting.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) I would imagine that $750,000 is going towards the buyout. This was a fine return for Thornton. Hahn said that this was the best piece that was offered. Not surprising given the fact that Thornton is a 37 year old LHP with declining stuff. I am not sure what people expected. Yes. so the Sox get Jacobs and save $2.5 million. I wish it never had to happen, but with some of the comments aboit Thornton on this board the last couple of years, I can't see how at least those people can't be satisfied. If the Sox players were worth all these top prospects, there would be no need to sell them off.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:55 PM) I still disagree with the premise. Our record this year is a testament to what happens when you have good pitching and no offense. Yes, the bad defense is an additional factor, but the majority of our games have still been very low scoring games -- you hear them quote all the time the high percentage of games decided by less than 3 runs. As for a hot hitter versus a hot pitcher: a 3.50 ERA is good, a 4.50 ERA is mediocre. That's a difference of 1 run per nine innings, and it includes the contributions of the defense (in terms of range, not errors). A single hot hitter can always hit at least solo homerun, which is a difference of one run over nine innings. One hot pitcher and some good defense CAN shut down the opposition -- once in five games. Unless you're Chris Sale, and you have a below .500 record despite a sub-3 ERA. Outscoring your opponent has equal parts to do with adding and preventing runs, the ratio is 1:1. The defense has been a huge factor, as has injury. While I think the White Sox have good pitching, the fact is there are 8 teams in the AL that have allowed fewer runs this year and 6 that have allowed more. No one has scored fewer. Some of it is defense and some of it is injury. The Sox have had to have some really mediocre at best guys try to get some outs this year.

QUOTE (staxx @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:32 PM) We werent going to get much more than this for Thornton. Good trade. Why is everyone so burnt out of these type of players? Eventually your bound to hit on one, every system does this. I don't think anyone is burnt, but these are the players the Sox have failed miserably with since Frank Thomas. I think it does make it seem like a longer shot he is ultimately successful in Chicago.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:30 PM) Borchard, Fields, Mitchell ... Frank Thomas. This kid was committed to Auburn. Maybe that was the plan. Don't forget the Bears # 1 pick.