Dick Allen

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:11 PM) The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later. What is the point of KEEPING Rios? If 2014 is a year the Sox are trying to win, his 1.5-2.0 WAR average he has had the past several years in a White Sox uniform is probably better than anything you will get trading him. It all depends on what teams are willing to give up for him.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:42 PM) And Frank Thomas That could have been an issue but Frank was with the A's. Supposedly, Rios had to be stopped from attacking KW.

Alexei being traded is risky. The Sox don't have another SS, and the good ones aren't cheap financially or what they will cost in terms of talent to acquire.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) Who didn't KW have a problem with, besides Buehrle, Konerko, Dye, Peavy and Thome? Then again, he probably had issues with Jake as well...trying to remember, probably about the way he became injured. Rios is only one I know where it almost came to blows.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 03:03 PM) This is a fallacy -- there are dozens of variables that are different now than back then. The two biggest are (1) the risk -- regardless of age, he is signed for 1.5 years with a team option now versus 5.5 before, and (2) the market -- he's the best OF available in a very thin market where there are more contenders and fewer sellers than ever before thanks to the second wild card. You could say its a fallacy, we will only truly know if he gets traded. Scouts reporting lack of effort and a big slump especially since neither are new and could last a while, doesn't help Hahn if he really wants to move him.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:19 PM) I'm on the same wavelength with most people here. I don't believe we'll move him at this point because it seems unlikely that he'll fetch the talent that he's worth to us. Rios is a guy we can build around if we want to and if we change our minds, I'm betting he has more trade value at that time in the future than he does now. He has certainly been one of the more enigmatic players we've had, though. As far as 2011, I still don't understand that season. I rarely think the manager has much to do with anything, but it sure seems that Ozzie has infected a few players over the years with bad play. Rios, Dunn, and Swisher come to mind. Ozzie and Rios are buddies. Rios had a problem with KW, and it almost got physical.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) Frankly, yes he was worth his contract at the time. Here's Fangraphs about him when they were trying to move money away: Why couldn't they get anything for him? That has nothing to do with Wells. I think it was his numbers declined a little bit and he was getting the reputation of not really caring. The 2010 BP when discussing Rios mentioned "the gaggle of scouts who think he just doesn't give a damn".

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) He also had 5.5 years remaining on his contract at an average annual value north of $10M. Now he has 1.5 years left at a reasonable rate and an option year. Far different circumstances. I have said this several times regarding the possibility of moving Rios - the SOX are not going to trade him if they don't get a meaningful piece back. Why on earth would they? No one is knocking on the door the minors in RF, he is paid what he deserves to be paid, if not less, and he is one of the guys that actually improves this team. If he a mental midget? Yes. Is he soft? Yes. Does he always play hard? No. But Rios is a very solid everyday player that is signed to a reasonable contract. If they can't get a very good prospect for him, keep him in RF until 2015, or until someone gets desperate and overpays. There is ZERO point in trading him off for nothing more than salary relief. If he is worth the contract now, he was worth it back then when the average per year was even less, and he was entering his prime. It is interesting Gonzo had that quote from a scout, because the same thing was being said at the time the Sox acquired him. Maybe there is something to the theory he is bothered by trade talk, although he has loafed when he was untradeable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 01:08 PM) Part of the Blue Jays motivation to do that though was that they were having to cut salary due to the enormous extension they gave to Vernon Wells and the fact that any other GM in the league would have to be a complete idiot to ever take that contract on. Obviously the Sox don't have to get rid of him, but regardless, it isn't likely they will be able to get a significant prospect for him now. They eventually did find the complete idiot, and he is no longer a GM.

When Rios came to the Sox, he was basically having the same year in Toronto that he is having now, and all the Blue Jays got for him was salary relief. The question will be do the Sox want to pay him to play here the rest of this year or next, because the return probably isn't going to be a highly rated prospect.

The role is playing very infrequently. While Wise isn't a regular player, chances ar Tekotte isn't developing into anything useful. Wise could be useful as a respected veteran helping the younger guys. He seems to be highly thought of by his teammates.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 09:20 AM) Always be willing to eat salary if it gets you better talent in return. You aren't adding to your payroll at all in 2013 and probably not very much in 2014 so there's not much point in saving money for those two years. Now if somebody is interested in Danks or Ramirez then I'm a little more hesitant to eat any of their money in 2015-16. Being willing to eat salary also brings more teams into the bidding. It depends on the talent. It makes no sense to eat $5-10 million for a guy who is not a surefire starter. It is still a business and every penny you don't spend now can be spent later. Maybe a guy like Castro will eventually work out, but acquiring 10-15 similar guys for all the Sox veterans would set this franchise back many years.

Phegley looks good. Of course 3 or 4 games into this season, Flowers looked like an all star. Hopefully, Phegley can keep Flowers glued to the bench.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 06:43 AM) Setting a tone Sveum: A. Ventura: D. With his trademark stubble and steel worker's eyes, Sveum sometimes looks like the dirtiest guy in the dugout. Ventura cleaned up well as a player and still does, which isn't great when his team is going down in flames and he seems headed to a cookout on his cul-de-sac. There was no visible sense of urgency during the 8-23 slide that took the White Sox from 24-24 and third place in the AL Central to oblivion, and that rests as much on the shoulders of the laid-back manager as the clubhouse missing its sandpaper guy, A.J. Pierzynski. Ventura missed a chance to make an example of Dayan Viciedo after a game last weekend when he threw to the wrong base and twice failed to hustle running the bases. This was in the first game of the doubleheader against the Indians. Viciedo didn't start the second game, but when quizzed by reporters Ventura explained that it was more about matchup numbers than punishment. Nobody yells in baseball anymore, and sometimes it's a shame. Sveum did a remarkable job by keeping the overmatched Cubs playing hard all last season, even after pitchers Ryan Dempster and Paul Maholm were traded away at the deadline. That will be tougher this time around, with Jeff Samardzija's comments after the Scott Feldman trade an example. COMMITMENT Sveum: A. Ventura: D. You know Sveum is in it for the long haul, working to hang on to his job until the better teams are built. Ventura turned down a one-year contract extension last winter, saying he wanted to serve out this three-year contract before deciding if this is the life he wants for the long haul. "I wonder if Robin is motivated to be a part of a complete rebuild,'' an MLB executive said. "Maybe that's why he did not take the extension. They'll be bad for an extended period. He's such a winner, this might not be something he wants to endure'' Given the job demands that require 12-hour work days and the relentless nature of a 162-game schedule, it would be easy to understand if Ventura walked away. But White Sox GM Rick Hahn needs to resolve this question as soon as possible, not after the 2014 season. If the manager is taking a wait-and-see approach, it's easy for fans to follow that example. Final grade Sveum: B. Ventura: C. That's a high B for Sveum and a low C for Ventura, who probably didn't get too many of those while attending Oklahoma State. [email protected] http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...3.column?page=3 Judging managers mostly based on Pythagorean is SILLY and outdated, Phil. You've been doing it for more than a decade now. The other thing is the quote by the executive. The Sox weren't in rebuilding mode when the extension was rejected, and an extention being rejected doesn't always mean someone doesn't want to be there. No one reported the terms being offered etc. also Viciedo did sit out the game Rogers wanted him to sit out, and while Robin told the press it was match ups, how does Phil know that it isn't Robin keeping team business in house? Maybe he did bench him for his transgressions, let him know that but didn't sell him up the river to the press. And if Phil has a problem with how Robin handles Viciedo why doesn't he have a problem with how Sveum handles Castro?

Gonzo reported an NL scout questioned Rios' effort Saturday when he again jogged down the line. He hasn't hit a homer in a month either. His stock certainly is falling.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 10:56 AM) Maybe you are right. That team should not be getting money back in deals though. I'd like to see the offers from San Francisco and the other teams involved. I agree they are nasically going to be pocketing money they will necer spend, but it is what they have always done with the exception of last season. I would like the Sox to make a play for Logan Morrison. He seems like a douchbag, but I still think he can be a good hitter.

Maddon bunting with no outs in the first inning.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) With the payroll that Miami has, they should have paid the rest of the salary in order to get better prospects. It's a joke. I doubt they had that option. I think a GM would be risking his livelihood if he gave up a significant prospect for a couple of months of Nolasco.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) Obviously everyone knows this already but that Miami franchise is a joke. I am all for selling off talent but they got a pile of crap in return. Dodgers picked up the salary, traded 3 less than mediocre prospects, and received international bonus money. What a joke of a franchise. What do you think he would bring back? They save big money not having him around the second half, they weren't bringing him back, and he wasn't going to be offered anything so they could get a draft pick. It is exactly what the Sox would get back for most of the names mentioned to be headed elsewhere. I have no problem the White Sox picking up lottery tickets for the guys that won't be coming back, but for those who could, they better get something useful, not something that could be useful, or the only thing that is accomplished trading them is padding JR and Friends' bank accounts.

Hernandez's issues in college were well known. There were several teams that wouldn't have taken him under any circumstance. Meyer spoke up for him with NE which got him drafted, and for the most part he and the Patriots were good at hiding the trouble he was still causing until this. While Meyer probably didn't do enough in retrospect, he did about as much as any coach does with troubled players that help them win games. Putting any blame on Meyer for Hernandez's behavior is silly. Florida could have trumped Meyer and done something. The Patriots could have done something, but would that have stopped him from ultimately doing what he did? There may have been a different victim or victims, but they still would have existed.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2013 -> 07:43 AM) http://blogs.seattletimes.com/hotstoneleag...syndication=rss A cautionary tale from the Mariners and Jack Z about what not to do at the trade deadline over the last 4 seasons. Amazing he still has a job. That said, the White Sox will be somewhere in between the M's approach this off-season (adding Morales/Morse/Bay/Ibanez) and that of the Indians (adding Bourne, Swisher and Reynolds, although they're still short in their starting rotation). If Phegley turns out, that will be one less FA they have to go after. It certainly doesn't look that bad. He traded expiring contracts for prospects that didn't pan out. Something that is exactly what the majority of this board wants Hahn to do except they think these things usually work out. The fact is dumping soon to be free agents for minor leaguers turns into a virtual salary dump the vast majority of the time. Even the good prospects fail.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 08:27 PM) His debut for the Sox but has spent time in the bigs . Nothing since 2011 though. I didn't know that. Take everything I posted back. He is a bum.

I don't know if Purcey is much of a prospect, but you have to think he is very nervous making his debut.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 04:56 PM) I'd call it a 2013 thing. Funny thing is that happened about a week after Gonzo tweeted a photo of Daryl Boston holding a pre game baserunning seminar for the team.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) This exact strategy is about to get Jack Z fired this offseason. No one is buying tickets now because the team sucks. Jason Bay isn't going to bring them back. The Sox need to get good as soon as possible to bring ticket sales back. Giving at bats to old, bad players instead of developing young, high-upside players will only slow this process down. No one will come see a 65 win team just like no one will come see a 70 win team just like no one will come see a 75 win team. BS. Jack failed with Smoak and Montero and Ackley. Bay was a guy who he brought in for close to the minimum. The guy had to make the team in spring training. The other old guy he brought in this year, Ibanez is doing better than any of them. Will the article put an end to the erroneous speculation on Soxtalk that Ventura doesn't want to manage because he doesn't have a fit when things go wrong?