Dick Allen

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 01:11 PM) I didn't mean go into dick mode. I legitimately thought you were joking. Anyways I don't think the discussion is worth it sincd unless you're Getting Trout back, you aren't getting fair value and the Sox know that. How would anyone know that without an offer being made? Hawk is correct when he said the only guy who couldn't be traded was Michael Jordan, except he can probably add LeBron now.

In 2008, John Danks was a very highly thought of 23 year old, and people around here were comparing 25 year old Gavin Floyd to Roy Halladay. While it would be nice to think the young core of current White Sox starters will be around and effective for a long while, it's probably not realistic.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Agree. You rebuild when your whole team is bad, not when half of it is bad And the half that is bad is the easier half to fix.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) This idea is what frightens me. Sale is exactly the ace-caliber starting pitcher you'd want anchoring your rotation -- but are we in any position to compete in 2014? 2015? If we're holding onto him, Hahn may as well do everything within his power to build the team to compete. It's useless keeping Sale for the next several years and risk depleting his value if Hahn cannot convince himself that we're in no better position to atleast win the division. The longer the team feels until it will be competitive, the less sense it is to not at least listen to offers for Sale. Hahn isn't stupid. If he's not even listening about Sale or at least trying to gauge what a team would give up to get him, he isn't thinking long term re-build. Stranger things have happened. The 1976 White Sox couldn't hit. 1977 they became the hitmen. As long as the Sox have starting pitching, it makes no sense going into a lengthy rebuild. Hitters will be available.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:22 PM) That's his 22nd 2B of the year, putting him on pace for 40. His previous high is only 31. homers are turning to doubles.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:57 AM) Phegley already described Sale's slider as the most wicked pitch he has caught as a catcher. Considering his reputation for actually catching the ball, if you could sit behind home plate today, you might get to know Mr. Phegley quite well by the end of the afternoon.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:31 AM) If he heals quickly, he's back by July or August, and he could be effective down the stretch for a team. If no one signs him, it's not a big deal either. Check his history the first 2 months of a season. If he can get someone to bite, good for him. I think paying him a million or 2 next year is far better spent on a deadline move.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:02 AM) $1-2 mill for 2-3 months of a #3-4 starter and a team option for like $6 million for year 2? I think that'd be a good deal actually. Hell, the Angels might just give him a 3 year deal. They were willing to give Joe Blanton 2 years and $15 million, and I don't think anyone saw that deal working out well for them. How is he going to be a 3-4 starter next year? Next season is a wash for him. 14-19 month recovery time, then it takes awhile from there and it isn't like he is dealing when the season begins anyway.

If Gavin Floyd requires a major league contract next season, if you are a GM and don't say "pass", you shouldn't be a GM.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) Kingham is not a fringe guy. Probably the 3rd best pitching prospect in that system. He's a good get. I'd rather have position players though. It's a moot point because neither Rios or Ramirez is netting the White Sox someone like Polanco. Funny thing is if Bowden was a GM, he wouldn't make that deal from either side.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 09:50 AM) I think you only get 30 days for injury rehab. If Floyd signs a contract for next season, it will be of the minor league variety.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) And you really believe they're going to commit to an additional $30-50 million per year in free agent contracts this offseason to make that happen? Even if they WANTED to spend that money, there's no guarantee they can get that package that makes sense for us to compete from among Ellsbury, Choo, Granderson, Utley, Morales, Lind (he'll probably stay in TOR) and McCann. And this whole concept of trading Santiago for a so-so or decent return vs. a bounty for Sale...they're going to end up regretting it, IMO. Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, Crain off the books. $25 million in additional TV money. There will be plenty of money to spend on hitters.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 08:19 AM) Where did you get the trade part? Because they were hesitating to name him in the future rotation and putting Erik Johnson's name out there as well? I don't understand why they would ever want to hold onto Peavy and Danks ($30+ million per year, 25% of payroll) when they already have Santiago and Quintana...? I read where a scout said the scouts were there for Santiago the other night and this said if he's not dealt after his name. either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt)

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 07:57 AM) Still talking about Santiago NOT being in the future rotation, possibly...c'mon. They need to do more than just trade 3 relievers...otherwise, they'll be forced to spend big-time in free agency, or they're going to punt on 2014 (making the presence of Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Danks and Dunn basically dead weight, and the reason for not dealing them now an enigma). Choose a path though, being in the middle isn't a good place. General manager Rick Hahn paints a rosier picture for the White Sox's future than many observers and fans can see. Hahn believes the team can be strong because its rotation is under contract through next year and ranks first in the American League in opponents' batting average (.244) and third in ERA (3.89). That was before Dylan Axelrod was peppered for seven runs Wednesday night in an 8-5 loss to the AL Central-leading Tigers. Hahn wouldn't address questions regarding potential trades leading up to the July 31 non-waiver deadline before Wednesday night's game. But from his comments to four beat writers after spending most of the afternoon on his cellphone, it appears the Sox are looking for young hitters in return as part of any deals that likely would involve relievers Jesse Crain, Matt Lindstrom and Matt Thornton. Many teams also are interested in right fielder Alex Rios, who could command two bona fide prospects. Hahn has dispatched several scouts to evaluate prospects from minor league organizations, including the Braves, Blue Jays, Rangers and Red Sox. And Hahn emphasized the Sox won't rush any of their prospects just because a position may become open. The 2014 rotation could consist of All-Star Chris Sale, John Danks, Jose Quintana, Jake Peavy (who will pitch Sunday for Double-A Birmingham in a rehab start) and either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt) or Triple-A Charlotte standout Erik Johnson (if Axelrod's struggles continue). “You are going to compete in this league with pitching, and we feel we have the nucleus that is going to help us compete,” Hahn said. “The bulk of our struggles this year have been on the offensive side. That's something we are going to have to improve. “We are not going to rush guys up because there is an opening at position X. We aren't going to put our best guy in the system in the big leagues because there's a need. We have to be careful these guys develop at their natural pace. We tend to be aggressive and give guys opportunities as soon as they prove they can handle it. “But when a guy is going to make that jump is going to be dictated more by their personal development case as opposed to our need.” Offense is a priority because the Sox entered Wednesday's game ranked 10th in the AL in batting average despite their 23-hit attack Tuesday and because of the overall struggles of top prospects Carlos Sanchez, Jared Mitchell and Trayce Thompson. On the bright side, Sanchez, 21, was 8-for-19 in his last four games for Charlotte. “I think he is still the youngest player in the International League,” Hahn said. “You have to judge his performance a little bit through that prism.” The Sox haven't settled on a permanent position for Sanchez, who can play shortstop and second base. “We are leaving things open,” Hahn said. “There's no need to decide yet, so we won't.” [email protected] It's the second time in a few days I've read about Santiago being a part of a trade. The Sox obviously don't hold Hector in as high of regard as many on this board. Maybe they don't think his style will translate into long lasting continued success. Maybe they think he is an injury risk. It obviously is something other than results.

Viciedo is finally heating up again.

It appears Axe's fairy dust has finally worn off. For his talent, he did provide the Sox with several good outings.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 06:21 PM) 100 percent agree....he did however mention Peavy going forward btw. Which also could be for show. If he is set on dealing Peavy, letting the other teams know isn't going to help the bids. Might as well let them know you consider him a big part of the future, it will at least cut down on some bulls*** conversations.

I'm sure a package for Sale would also include a successful major leaguer or 2. It all depends on how long the team thinks it will be before it is competitive again. If its next year, you should keep him. 2015, most likely keep him, but if its any longer, Sale is no guarantee to be the pitcher he has been 3, 4 or 5 years from now. 5 years ago John Danks was looking like a 23 year old future ace, and now people question why he was given an extension last year. Sale has missed games last year and this with soreness. I doubt that will improve. It never hurts to see what a team might be willing to give you. There is no obligation and you might be wowed by the package.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks. Lillibridge, Marquez, Castro and Molina were probably considered major-league ready or near ready when acquired.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 12:19 PM) KG/Pau they definitely should have done something there. Those guys were both better than anything currently available. It might not have put them over the top, but it clearly would have made them better, probably taking them from a 45-50 win team to a 50-55 win team depending on the exact deal. To be fair, they supposedly tried on KG. I forget the exact deal, but supposedly the Bulls offered something big and got turned down a year or two before he was actually traded, so maybe that wouldn't have worked (something like Chandler and the Tyrus and Noah picks). The Pau deal was a joke, but it sounded like they traded him before really evaluating the market (I seem to remember a ton of GM's bewildered at the trade and how little he went for). You can blame the Bulls there, but the same is true for a lot of teams. Dwight and Melo are moot because they weren't signing here (at least that was the situation at the time). OKC moved Harden a year too early for the Bulls. Had they made a decision THIS off-season (which would have been smarter, he was still cheap last year and he'd be a restricted FA this year), the Bulls would be in a much better position with Butler looking like a serviceable piece and Deng having an expiring deal now. Then again, they might have had to pay the tax for a year, which seems to be a deal-breaker for them... If they would have picked up KG or Pau, I'm thinking they probably don't get Rose or win a title anyway. Kind of like when they lost the coin flip and wound up with David Greenwood instead of Magic. It did eventually lead to MJ.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 09:42 AM) But if they were worried about Rios's recent slump, those worries may have ended yesterday., I agree. One game probably doesn't really make a difference, but a good week definitely could. It is important he look like he can contribute right away and for the rest of the season. There is no sense acquiring him if he is in a slump and looks like he could struggle for a while or looks like he doesn't feel like playing when you are doing it for this year, so there is a tighter window to evaluate and project than normal.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) It's the 21st century. Do they really need to have a "closed door" meeting? There are so many means of communication to get your point across, it's not like addressing a whole team. They probably were just discussing Peavy.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 06:40 PM) Walker has been too aggressively promoted. Sometimes the White Sox push guys to age appropriate levels while (I assume) fully knowing that they don't have the track record to warrant being there. There is some chance that Walker catches up age-wise and becomes a contributor, but it will wind up being more like Jordan Danks, who needed to repeat AAA until he became a hair on the older side for that level. Danks is another guy where you can look at his year-by-year stats and find yourself thinking, "huh? why did they send him to AAA so fast?" He was 23 when he first appeared in AAA. That isn't out of line at all.

As bad as the major league team has been, some of the Sox top hitting prospects are making this season an even bigger disaster. Mitchell is probably close to done. Sanchez has been pretty bad. Keenan Walker a disaster. Hawkins obviously was in over his head, and is very youngbut has anyone ever had as tough of time as him making contact and then gone on and become a productive major leaguer. Trace Thompson jhas had flashes, but nothing seems to indicate he is a sure thing either. As caulfield would write....sigh.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) The team is NOT competent, though. It's not even CLOSE to competent. Our winning percentage is below .400. I'm not saying that tanking is the key, but do you really think it makes sense to keep him and add 2-3 more wins to next year's team? They have some pitching. If they could get just some hitting, it could be a totally different story. BTW, I read the guy who was really being scouted yesterday from the White Sox was Santiago