Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell says hello, Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon, Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz, etc. 1990, 1998 and 1987 called and said they were bad trades. MLB traderumors has a list of prospects that were moved last deadline. One guy is making an impact and that was for Greinke, a guy who would at least net the other team a draft pick which Crain won't. The great return was when Baltimore got Davis and Hunter. But they weren't for a 2 month rental, and let's face it, No one saw this current performance as a possibility for Davis, although he had been highly touted.

Geddy Lee is front row behind the Sox dugout.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:12 PM) I thought he was the next head coach for the Hoosiers as it was his dream job. He still may be the next head coach of the Hoosiers. The Celtics are probably going to be bad for a while. I think the odds are good Stevens winds up back in college at some point.

It is bad luck but anyone who really thinks 2 months of Jesse Crain is going to get you a huge piece of your future is in la la land. If these players were as valuable as some believe, there is no way the Sox would be in last place.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 07:45 PM) +1000 to this Rios has had a reputation among scouts for being "indifferent". A month of "indifferent" play isn't going to help Rick Hahn. I was act the game Saturday when he jogged down the first base line, as were the scouts from the teams mentiomed in this thread.

I have been to 10-15 games. It isn't a perfect experience everytime, but nothing like they make it out to be. If it is so awful, stay home. I would say if I had to b**** about what is wrong with gameday experiences at USCF 95% would be directed at other fans who think people don't mind they stand in the aisle during the games talking to someone or taking pictures. As far as concession stands, they do close them early, but from what I have read, that isn't the Sox call.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 05:39 PM) If clutch was a myth, Joe Crede would not be one of the most celebrated members of that 2005 White Sox team. Yogi Berra wouldn't be a hall of famer and one of the most beloved Yankees of all time if it wasn't for his clutch hitting. I understand you are sabr guy and all into stats, so it would be easy for you to be shocked by me not viewing an .800 OPS as good. But for you to completely deny the idea of clutch hitting? Who's the one saying stupid things now? And by the way, I don't really care about OPS, or mainly OBP, when it comes to 3-4-5 hitters. To me, I look at AVG, SLG, extra base hits, RBIs, and their stats with runners in scoring position and late/close situations. You don't need your number 3 hitter up looking to walk like Dunn does so much, you need him up there driving in runs. Dunn is 9th in the AL in RBI. So if driving in runs is what he needs to be doing, there are only 8 guys in the AL driving in more. He isn't worth what he is being paid, but he has been pretty decent lately, and he has produced runs both last year and this. Also, Dunn isn't hitting 3rd. You must have hated Frank Thomas batting third walking more than Dunn.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 05:32 PM) Define gut....Ramirez, Rios and Peavy gone? Or also the likes of Beckham and Viciedo, to the point where the entire starting line-up is different for 2013? If Ramirez Rios and Peavy are gone with Crain, Thornton, Konerko, there is a good chance the Sox are going to be bad for quite a while unless somehow they do spectacularly well on the return. What is left and what is coming up? Who in the world is going to play SS? I have never been a vpbig Ramirez fan, but he is all the Sox have, and SS aren't easy to find unless they are bad. The Sox would be one Chris Sale elbow blowout from being a 100+ loss team.

Rios was pretty bad in June. As we all know, it could linger with him. I would be really surprised, especially if he doesn't pick it up soon, if you could get one of a team's top 5 prospects for him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 1, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Then you are ignorant and there's no point in discussing this. Robin Yount played in the postseason only twice during his illustrious 20 year career. Is he a loser? On the contrary, David Eckstein played for in the postseason 4 times and won 2 World Series rings, which quite clearly qualifies him as a winner, correct? That Dunn has played on last place teams is circumstantial and has little to do with him. Oh, and BTW, this "he hasn't been the man until this June" is BS too, unless you, for whatever reason, consider the .953 OPS on June 16th of last year chopped liver. He fell of precipitously after that, as I have mentioned, but he was an incredibly valuable player for the first half of last year and, due to injury and whatever else, fell off in the second half like everyone else on the team. Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus never played in a playoff game. Losers.

I think it makes more teams players for free agents, but I really don't think it will raise salaries as much. I don't know if the luxury tax is going up, and I don't think teams want middle relievers making eight figures a year. Plus, I think some teams have already dipped into that money.the Sox are in good shape to field a competitive team next year if that is their plan, as long as they don't totally gut the team. They can sign some free agents or make trades that take on cash. If they gut the team except for Sale, it is going to be a while.

Shane Spencer. I really don't know if any rookie has been this awesome for this long beginning his career. He is obviously going to tail off some, but while not willing to compare him to the all time greats yet, you have to think this guy's future is pretty bright.

Puig probably won't even hit .400 this season.

What is the Sox record since Hahn and Robin had those individual meetings and told players something would happen if they didn't pick it up and they haven't picked it up? This past winter the Sox really wanted Jack Hannahan as a left handed hitting 3rd baseman. He signed with the Reds so the Sox got Gillespie instead. If Hahn had his first choice, this offense would even be worse. Rick is on the clock. Time for him to generally manage. These next moves will be important. The pressure of being a GM much longer probably isn't on the line, but its about time he make his mark.

Rogers uses teams that have been bad or were bad forever as models. Thank God he isn't running the Sox.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 30, 2013 -> 09:25 AM) I don't know what you're argument is here. I didn't even mention the draft. My post was about why you shouldn't trade all your young core pieces, namely Sale. If the Sox make a bunch of moves then they lose a bunch of veteran players, but if they do nothing then they also lose a bunch of veteran players at the end of the year due to FA. If you don't think the Sox can find someone to replace Alexei's on-field value (much less factoring in cost) in 2 years when we could be good again then I think you are being difficult at best. Rios is still a potential headcase and I would argue that keeping him is still a risk. What would the Sox trade that would really hurt their chances of becoming good again? They don't have to deal Peavy, they can hold onto him & use him in a deal later if they want after they've had some of their questions answered. They can trade him for need/fit at a later point than just talent at one of many possible positions. The Sox have shown the ability to work with less than this ala 2007. The 2008 club was a composite of Chris Carter the prospect, a FA UT player signing out of Cuba, the McCarthy trade, and the Freddy Garcia deal, both pitcher trades occurring after 2006, meaning both Floyd & Danks took a year for the Sox to develop at the MLB level. You're throwing s*** at the wall I think, or posting without thought. The Sox have done all this before and there are absolutely no indications that they are preparing for a Cubs style trade everyone rebuild. That's why Sale is not available, because they actually know what they are doing. The point is trading all of your veterans is not going to work out so well. It isn't like the Sox have 4 or 5 guys ready to go in Birmingham or Charlotte. People have visions of Crain netting huge prospects, but that isn't going to happen. A team will take Rios' money but thinking they are going to give up someone who is going to be great in 2 or 3 seasons is unlikely. I don't think his trotting to first helps Hahn's cause.. The only guy the Sox really have that can get you superstar prospects is Sale. Sure, get rid of the guys that won't be around next year anyway. Crain included. But I would be very leary of dealing guys like Peavy as he is worth more to the Sox than the prospects he would net, unless its a full blown rebuild, which considering the Sox system , is at least a 4 or 5 year project. Minimum.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jun 30, 2013 -> 08:53 AM) Because it doesn't matter who you are, what Viciedo pulled in the 8th inning of game 1 of the DH was almost as bad as what Beckham did with the infield pop up in the 9th, regardless if you are still in the game or not. The better question is why has Viciedo been the only to be put on the bench for one game when other players continually make terrible, sloppy, and undisciplined mistakes? It isn't like there are a ton of options. If the Sox were to bench players after dumb plays, they would only have 3 or 4 guys in the field. I am pretty sure Bud wouldn't allow that. Everyone gets talked to, the Sox are still working on fundamentals. Gonzales even tweeted a photo from a baserunning class they were having before a game earlier in the week. I will say, I thought the defense had its finest game on Saturday, but it still was a loss.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2013 -> 09:02 AM) It has to be a collegiate pitcher or reliever. Ventura/Thomas, from a hitting perspective, are once-a-generation anomalies. Beckham got up to the big leagues about as fast as possible for the present day-and-age. Chris Sale, obviously, fits here too. But look at someone like Porcello, who is still struggling...a lot like Jon Garland, too good at too young an age for the minors but not refined enough for success at the big league level. Then you have the relievers who move in a hurry, guys like Scott Radinsky, Boone Logan, Santos, maybe Daniel Webb will be the next. Ventura offensively didn't really contribute until 1991. Frank was great from the start, which is rare. Beckham started fast, but many have wanted him gone for quite a while. To think the Sox can get rid of all their good players except Sale and think in 2 or 3 years they should be contenders or someone isn't doing their job properly is BS. It's not like they have MLB ready guys in the minors right now, and once players get here it takes time to get their wings if they get them at all.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 30, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) If they do their jobs properly, yes. You acquire a ton of prospects/unproven MLB players and you add that to what you have in-house. In the end you look to pull out 4-5 position players including the likes of Viciedo/Flowers/Gillaspie who are already here trying to stick, you get 1-2 starters including Johnson, and 2-3 guys in the bullpen. You supplement that with FA signings, some of the bargain variety, and then you take some of your prospects and look to trade them off for proven players on good contracts to round out your team. If you can't pull that off in 2-3 years your whole FO should be fired. Expecting that to take 5 years is not only expecting a massive failure, it's also inviting and allowing that massive failure. You get dumb & start dumping all your good young players for prospects and you end up like the Mariners, the Orioles forever until last year, the Pirates for years, the Tigers for years, the Royals forever until they finally tried to improve themselves last year, etc. Name a team that has bottomed out, traded their best players and were back in contention in 2 or 3 years? This isn't the NBA. Draft picks rarely provide immediate help. The Sox will be lucky, incredibly lucky,if the guy they pick next June , even if they get the first pick,is really contibuting in 2016.

QUOTE (Jbabs34 @ Jun 29, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) I'm with Bernstein on this one. Look at it rationally...if the Sox go with a complete rebuilding mode, the EARLIEST they would be relevant would probably be in 5 years, and that's being generous considering how thin the farm system is. So, let's say in those 5 years Sale averages 190 innings a season - that's almost 1,000 innings pitched. Do you think his mechanics can hold up that long and still be as effective as he is today? It's certainly possible that he can, but I wouldn't put my money on it. So, if some GM called Hahn today and is willing to overpay - say 3 or 4 very solid prospects - how do you not entertain that idea? I agree, but it all depends on what exactly they are planning. If they are planning a Cubs-like rebuild, It makes zero sense not to trade Sale. What is the guarantee Sale will be a stud in 4 or 5 years when they would play games that mattered again.? Just look at John Danks. 5 years ago he was a 23 year old stud pitcher. Now, people don't understand why the Sox extended him. I would think Sale has just as good of a chance of getting hurt. Cash him in for studs if you are tearing it down. If you are planning on competing, then you don't pay attention unless someone wants to blow you away. As Hawk said, except for Michael Jordan, everyone is available in a trade.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 05:03 PM) Pardon me guys as I haven't been watching a lot of games this year and I have a few questions about Beckham: 1) Is Gordon's .309 batting average in roughly 100 AB's anything to get excited about? 2) Has he lost some of his power with the new stroke (0 HR's so far) 3) Dare we consider some team friendly extension and hope he continues to progress? So far he has been fime. His power is going to be down with the wrist injury.

Tony Snell

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) It's not about trading pitching or hitting or whatever, it's about trading assets that don't have long term value. Like it or not, this combination of players blows and they won't win. You need to find the weakest points and replace them with something that will good for more than a few months. I cannot grasp the desire for people to argue that the team should stay committed to "winning now" by continuing to run the same s***ty players out year after year as they get older and worse. This thread is about Addison Reed. If he doesn't have value, why trade a guy who has a WHIP below 1.00 and strikes out more than one an inning, while making next to minimum?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 11:58 AM) That's when *you* show up with a bag over *your* head & the knowledgeable fan next to you laughs at you because it's a great trade. Then he probably stands up and makes makes funky gestures with his arms, pretending to be an ape, making ape noises and going "Derr Addison Reed ERERER" and so forth. How anyone who suggests the Sox second round pick who just graduated HS and has not thrown a pitch in professional baseball be the closer this year, tries to tell someone they are not a knowledgeable fan is beyond comprehension.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) When do you start attending games simply to wear a paper bag over your head? And I thought we had an emoticon for that, maybe not? When they trade Reed for Garcia.