Dick Allen

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ May 29, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) The White Sox may not score a run this series. 4 minutes and 2 batters later...Please say they are done scoring this series.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:00 PM) One of the ESPN bloggers had a good "Man the Mariners suck at developing hitters" article last night. Seems very familiar. For Pineda, Garcia and Lee, the return was less than stellar. Just think, however, if the Sox traded Peavy, Rios and Ramirez and got back the equivalent of Smoak, Montero, Reed, Morse and Olivo when they were acquired by the Mariners. The re-build would be declared complete, and the team might lose 100 games for a while.

Stone and Hawk have definitely been doing more selling during telecasts from USCF this season. Anyone catch Stone the other day when he had to promote the raffle for the Smart car painted in White Sox colors in CF? He said second prize was 2 smart cars. I bet he was scolded.

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ May 29, 2013 -> 11:12 AM) dont mind seeing Dunn in there for PK today. Feldman seems like the typer of pitcher that AD should be able to handle. Lets get this one today boys! Dunn also has had some big success at Wrigley.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 29, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) Does trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees get you back Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, Mark Montgomery or Ramon Flores? Secondly, other than Austin Jackson, when's the last time a Yankees' prospect made a big impact? Here you go taking both sides. The Sox have to trade these guys, but when is the last time any of these prospects actually was worth it? You keep mentioning the "Cardinals model", the "Tigers model", the "Rays model", yet the model that most closely resembles what the rebuilders here want to do is the Mariners model. The Mariners have been selecting dud minor league hitters for years. Remember Jeremy Reed. Smoak and Montero continue the tradition.

If the Sox traded Ramirez, who would play SS, not just this season, but moving forward? It is one of the most vital positions on the field.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) Then what players have "Youkilis-esque" contracts that are that unique combination of 1/2 year commitments, where the veteran player is blocking a youngster and/or that veteran is having a hard time with his current manager and it's best for the team to part ways....almost, to give him away to kill 2 birds with one stone? Because I haven't seen anyone on here advocate trading, let's say, Erik Johnson, to fix the three biggest problems for the current team, which are catcher, Dunn/Konerko/offense from the middle of the line-up, and the bullpen (and that's assuming there's a "smooth" transition to Gordon at 2B and he doesn't hit in the high 500's OPS-wise coming back from that wrist problem) Other than taking on salary, or making Liriano trades that don't affect the core (Escobar/Pedro Hernandez...which would be trading Axelrod, and even many consider him more valuable to the Sox than as someone who could fetch a trade return)...how do you intend to do that? It seems the only way would be to trade either Johnson or Santiago. Are you willing to take that risk? If you look at it from another perspective, we "went for it" last year at mid-season and still came up short. We didn't have a player (Escobar) who could have entered 2013 as the starting 3B, so we he had to overpay on Keppinger...which isn't a HUGE contract, but it was brought about, once again, because of lack of minor league depth. (And, no, we can't say that ANYONE would have predicted Gillaspie could be the starter against both LHP and RHP before the season). Are we honestly going to be closer to getting to the playoffs this year than last year? How can you make that case, if we're 5 games back, let's say, rather than 3-5 games ahead? Why is trading Santiago or Johnson a big risk, but trading a former Cy Young award winner who is healthy again, and has been performing tremendously, not? Seems to me trading guys who actually have shown they are great major league players is far more a risk than trading maybes. I understand I am on Soxtalk and Santiago is a guy who is going to win 5 or 6 Cy Youngs if he is just handled properly and Johnson is can't miss, but success in the minor leagues does not equal success in the majors. Go to baseball reference and check out Rod Bolton. First, look at his minor league stats prior to his White Sox call up, and tell me how much Soxtalk would be raving. The Sox wouldn't have needed Black Jack. Then look what happened when he got his shot. I hope Johnson and Santiago pan out, and are at least 25% as great as some around here think they are, but until it really happens, Peavy is the safer choice. And if Eduardo Escobar was the Sox starting 3B, you still would be arguing the same things about him. If you play a bunch of rookies, chances are, you aren't going to win. Not everyone is Mike Trout.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) Let's say Reyes to the Blue Jays didn't materialize...you really believe they would have taken Alexei's contract obligations on and given us, let's say, Hechavarria straight up for him? Just looking at his year over year declining OPS numbers (especially homers and XB hits), his age...his high error totals this year (part of that's on Ventura and by association, Hahn, for not being able to rest him), I just don't see that as being a sure thing that he's going to fetch a consensus Top 50 player back. Cardinals, same thing...do you believe we could actually get Carpenter/Adams, etc., or would we be speculating on minor league pieces (and not one of their top cadre of minor league pitchers)? What is the fascination posters have with downgrading the SS position? How does dumping Ramirez for zilch like Marty suggests or getting Hechavarria make the White Sox better now or in the long run?

If Danks doesn't pitch a gem and gives up 4 or 5 runs, how many posts saying his days as an effective pitcher are over will there be?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:18 AM) See I would normally agree with you but I think the future is more important than rolling the dice on this season. Look at our middle of the order for Christmas sake. We're not far away IMO. We really have some pieces. We have tons of starting pitching, a couple pieces in the pen, a couple position players.... we just need to finish the job. A gigantic chunk of regular SoxTalk conversation is either 1) b****ing about how "going for it" at the wrong times hurts the organization, 2) b****ing about lack of sustained success, 3) b****ing about lack of organizational depth, 4) b****ing about fans not showing up, and 5) launching totally unprovoked veiled "baseball criticisms" i.e. character assaults on the likes of Kenny Williams, Mark Buehrle, AJ Pierzynski, and Hawk Harrellson. Now we can't do much about #5, but the other 4 we may actually be able to address at least in part by finishing the job and putting the future first by building around this core. And if we're going to do that we need to do it now. If the Sox aren't that far away, why trade guys like Peavy and Rios for prospects who are farther away, if they even get there at all? Even Marty said the rotation is shaping up. How long do rotations stay together? The time to try to win is while Sale's elbow and shoulder are intact.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2013 -> 07:45 AM) ROFL - SIGN JERMAINE DYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You live so much in the past. You're right Marty. The signing of Dye was horrible. They should have tanked the 2005 season rather than sign him. They could have seen what Borchard could do. You mentioned earlier Flowers catching is a sign the Sox aren't trying to win. Good news, Avila is worse than Flowers. The Tigers aren't trying to win either. ROTFL. I don't live in the past. I want the Sox to win. I enjoy White Sox victories a lot more than the opportunity to say how bad so and so is, how hopeless the situation is, how so and so has to be fired, how the White Sox don't deserve any of my money after they lose. That's one huge difference between me, the vast majority of people on this board, and you. I think you are the only White Sox "fan" and I use that term very loosely describing you, who is unhappy the White Sox signed Dye.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 08:55 PM) Can I have the players ages? Age means nothing when you talk about Viciedo.

One thing to keep in mind when trading someone because you don't think their value will ever be higher. It is a 2 way street. The guy you get may have inflated value as well. If someone here said the Sox could trade Peavy for the 2011 version of Jesus Montero, a lot of posters would think that was great. It would have turned out horribly. Casto and Molina are a couple of guys who have declined in value as well. The value that is most important is the value to the White Sox, and as long as the Sox are trying to win, trading Peavy will most likely backfire. Marty's best deal available may not be available for a year or 2.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) How much money is that compared to the other teams in MLB? Don't have the slightest idea. But the White Sox generally spend money the public knows is available. They will be able to bid with anyone on any player they choose. That doesn't happen often. They will have as much payroll flexibility has they have had in our lifetimes.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series? The Sox have about $20-30 million coming off the payroll and an additional $25 million to work with through the new TV package. It seems to me, some tinkering can be done. The Sox have won one WS in our lifetimes. I always get a kick out of the impossible to win a WS with so and so or so and so won't be on the next WS team as a reason to get rid of them. Using that critieria, the Sox should have traded Frank Thomas after 1993 or 1994, because the amount of postseason series won with Frank on the active roster was 0. Carlton Fisk was a waste of money signing. Amount of postseason series wins with Fisk as a White Sox...0. Dick Allen was a bad trade. No postseason.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) You get the best trade possible and that's that. It's not like going down the 2014 free-agent list and saying I want this guy or I want that guy. How do you know the best trade possible improves the team even theoretically?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:10 PM) I think it's stupid to get specific on trades as none of us know the offers. When names start appearing I will give my opinion. Then it's pretty stupid to say they have to be traded if you don't have any idea what they can get back for them.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) If Phegley keeps hitting anywhere close to like he has, he'll easily be a top 100 prospect. He's a 25 year old catcher who is currently second in OPS in the International League. There's plenty of room for regression with him still being a great offensive catcher. The problem is no one really knows what to expect out of him going forward. He's never hit anywhere close to this good in his entire minor league career, but at the same time he was a 1st round supplemental draft pick because of his bat and he's been unhealthy for the last several years. Maybe he's finally at full strength and reaching his potential, or maybe this is just one long hot streak. Most likely it's somewhere in the middle, but the closer he is to the player we are seeing this year, the more likely he is to become a legit starting catcher in the majors. The real problem here is that we're still working with a small sample size. In a perfect world, you'd give Phegley another couple months in AAA to see if this is just a hot streak. Unfortunately, Flowers and the offense have been so bad, that we're almost forced to make the switch sometime soon. If this happens, hopefully Phegley starts off fast, because any struggles will make the decision on a starting catcher for 2014 even more difficult. Ideally, I agree. If the Sox wanted to make Phegley the #1 catcher in 2014, they should find out exactly where he is on the major league in 2013, and not just a September call up.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Do we dare trust this organization with others' prospects unless they are pitchers? It depends, Gillaspie seems OK. But your point is well taken. If they are almost fully developed, they can escape the White Sox curse. Molina looks like a huge bust. Castro a bust, all the guys they got for Swisher, pretty much busts, the guys they got for Vazquez... Lillibridge, bust, Flowers, trending towards bust.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:51 PM) Trade value correlates very closely to on-field performance. That's part of the equation, but this isn't fantasy baseball. Guys get paychecks, and with the new rules with the draft, stud minor leaugers are going to be more difficult to pry away. You need to find a team that will take on the money that also has top prospects and who are willing to trade those prospects. Many times it is easier to do that with someone who has multiple years left on his contract during the offseason when they are formulating their roster. That is why if you don't know the offers, you cannot say their trade value has peaked. So you still aren't ready to go out on a limb and tell us what type of prospects the Sox should expect in return, just make it an auction, and best bid wins. No reserve. Correct?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) It's best when you don't get specific. Smardijza is "hot garbage" ROFL!! ROFL is right. You really need to check out the original post he was referring to,. But good to take things out of context to try to stop the attention to the lack of specifics you post.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) Really, it's preposterous to say well player A and player B is who I want back when no one is privy to the offers. Point is in wanting them traded is that their value will never be higher. If you don't know the offers, how do you know their trade value is at it's peak? And if you are running a baseball team, what is more important, value of a player to your team, or value of a player to someone else?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:36 PM) The only time I've known Dick Allen to be wrong is when he writes in specifics. Is that why you refuse to write in specifics? You may want to go back and look at what he is referring to anyway.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) Careful, you don't want to go too far out on that limb. He's set up for his Monday morning QB gig. If they trade them and it works out, he told you so. If they trade them and it doesn't work out, the Sox screwed up. There were better packages to be had. Ask him what they were, either crickets or "not my job".

There is ivy at USCF, and padded walls.