Dick Allen

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) Not really. Unless you really believed a broken down, 5 years past his prime Rip Hamilton would've been the difference between losing in the conference finals in 2011 and getting to the finals in 2012. If you really believe that, maybe Reinsdorf really is a genius. The Heat almost blew it against a very old Boston team. I agree, counting on a Bulls team to be healthy is about as crazy as saying they are a lock to win a title, but if they were healthy, they had a decent shot. People just mention Rose being hurt, but Deng was hurt, Noah was hurt and Rip was hurt. Basically the only guy who remained healthy was the guy who always gets hurt, Boozer.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) I keep seeing people saying Floyd is the trade chip, but I can't help thinking its Quintana. Q has been great for us this year, but if you were the Brewers which would make more sense to you. A guy getting paid $9m with one year left before free agency... Or a 23 year old (lefty) at league minimum they could control for the next 5 years. And for us... Q is in the same dangerous territory that Sale is reaching innings wise. One of the main reasons for us to get another starter is to cover innings Sale and Q may not be able to pitch. What good would it do us down the stretch if we give up a 200+ inning guy like Floyd and then still be forced to dip into the minors to get coverage for Sale/Q when they max out? My guess... Quintana and Beckham are being offered along with one or more minor leaguers. This is pretty logical, but all the Sox are gaining is the upgrade to Greinke which, with his concerns, may not be an upgrade, plus you lose Beckham's defense and please don't any mention Escobar, although I'm sure Hudson would become the second baseman.

Someday the Sox will pay $23 million a year for a pitcher, but if they won't come close to giving Mark Buehrle $14 million a year for 4 years, they aren't going to offer anyone $23 million a year for even longer in the near future.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) That seems like robbery on the Sox's part. I agree that if this deal goes down, it's Floyd + a prospect for Grienke...at a minimum. I am afraid that the Sox may overpay. If there aren't talks right away of extending him (Grienke), the Sox may/will way overpay for a 2 month rental. If the Sox trade Floyd for Greinke, even if Greinke walks, that should be an upgrade this season, even if its only one or two extra wins, they probably are needed, and it frees up almost $10 million for next year for some kind of replacement. That part of the trade makes a lot of sense. Its what else that is the concern, because there has to be something else.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) When Gordon Beckham is our September/October (post-season) MVP, then we can talk. Crede was... 1) A much better power hitter 2) A much better clutch hitter, for example, getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, Uribe and Crede were awesome 741 (2003) and 717 (2004) were his OPS numbers heading into 2005... Gordon's about 100 points below that. KW was also saying the same things about Torii Hunter and Brian Anderson...or about Josh Fields. Been there, done that. As I said, July of 2005. People wanted Crede gone. 2006 Crede actually became quite the hitter until his back blew out. He was a .300 30 homer guy, but a injured Sept. ruined his numbers and although he had flashes, he was never the same. Gordon just needs some confidence. The talent is there, and it shows once in a while.

People were saying the same things about Crede in July of 2005 they are saying about Beckham now. He'll turn it around just like Joe did, only he'll be able to maintain it since his back actually works.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) Name any set-up guy in baseball making $5.5 million or more who has been less productive the last 24 months... I don't think you can come up with more names than K-Rod. Liriano-------------too easy. Thornton after a horrid April last year finished with a 3.32 ERA and 63 k's in 60 IP. This year he's at 3.70 with 37 k's in 41 innings. Not the Thornton of old but definitely productive and valuable.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) I would seriously put Liriano in the bullpen and dump Matt Thornton. Liriano throwing all-out for just an inning or two would be devastating. He can get K's, he has the two pitches that Matty doesn't. Liriano in the bullpen in 2012 7 1/3 IP 7 H 4 R 4 ER 7 BB 9 K 5.07 ERA Your hatred of Thornton makes you not see the truth. I'd take Liriano, I've seen enough of Humber, but you really undervalue Thornton. I think Hawk is the last Sox GM to make a trade with Minnesota, and it was extremely minor.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) Then you give up anything positive about having Beckham on the team. He would be just an average ML SS. And his bat, as it's trending the last 3 years, would be below average. Unless you go with the magical formula...move Gordon to SS or hit him 2nd or never make him bunt again and he'll morph into an All-Star player after struggling for 3+ years. We heard he'd be average at best at 3B, but he was pretty good after a few weeks. We heard he'd be decent at 2B, he's GG calibur. His arm is strong enough to play SS and he has some nice range. I don't know why anyone would say he'd just be average, at least defensively. And he hasn't struggled for 3+ years. He was pretty awesome the second half of 2010 before he broke his hand. Ramirez is good for 3 or 4 months of the season. It would be hard to let him go, but, even if Beckham doesn't hit next April and most of May, he'll still be even with Ramirez's production up to that point. I don't think its in the cards, but it would be a consideration.

I wonder if the Sox would be willing to trade Ramirez. Milwaukee wants a SS, and eventually move Beckham to SS.

What's funny is the Guillens always talk about the wins with the Sox. How he alone made them relavent. Now on twitter if any Sox fan digs at Oney comparing Sox/Marlins records, Oney's response is always the Sox won't win the WS and that's the only thing that matters. So according to his standard, Ozzie has really only had 1 successful year in his career. Every other season sucked.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:21 AM) My DVR cut off before the last few minutes, but I was expecting a lot worse after reading this thread. It was nothing terrible that the Guillen's said. If anything, it was annoying that 80% of the show focused on Ozzie and his family instead of focusing on the players (which is always the best part of these shows). What was funny was Ozzie said baseball had nothing to do with money, only family. Didn't he go off several months ago how winning a WS doesn't pay for his plane ticket to go watch bullfighting? That baseball was all about money. The one scene where Samson was telling Ozzie he was going on vacation and Ozzie had some comment I think was made about helping him go to the bathroom but I wasn't sure. The look Samson had on his face after Ozzie popped off was not one of amusement. He was seriously annoyed at Ozzie's response. I think Samson is a weasel, but I don't think Ozzie is going to last in Miami. Maybe he moves to the Royals and they will start playing like they did when they had George Brett.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) One thing to consider about De Aza is that he's arb eligible next year. So unless you think he's still going to improve a lot, this is probably his peak value. If he keeps playing like he's played this year, he's going to be a bargain for several years.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) Brewers are interested in DeAza. Interesting. Maybe that's why KW inquired about Ichiro. If they made the trade is there any doubt as soon as Vernon Wells is let go in LA he would be reunited with Rios.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) My biggest concern with trading Q for Greinke is that there's a solid chance Q performs just as good as Greinke does the rest of the way. Q has already dominating some of the best lineups in baseball. That's true. Greinke, IMO, is boom or bust. He's either going to go on a huge roll or will struggle with the giant spotlight.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:37 AM) Why do other teams want Floyd? If the Sox are so willing to dump him at this stage in his career, why would other teams trade for him as opposed to a younger, cheaper player? He's actually shown he can get MLB hitters out. Sometimes very well. With the others, its all projection.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:30 AM) If it's Floyd + spects I have no issue with this trade at all, I'm pretty much over Floyd at this point and view him just as about league average at this point. Giving up 1.5 years of him for .5 of Grienke seems fair from a Sox perspective, but most likely isn't enough for Milwaukee. I wouldn't think its enough, but its a decent start. I just wonder what teams will be offering. We have to remember, you don't get that draft pick compensation if you don't sign him anymore. On one hand you have that, on the other hand you have a lot of teams with a lot of spare highly thought of minor leaguers who are looking for pitching. I think its unlikely the Sox get him, but I also don't think the others offers are going to be as significant as many think. Its possible Greinke comes in and is lights out, its also possible his issues make him not so good. If Milwaukee really offered him $100 million, I can't understand why he wouldn't take it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:20 AM) Completely agree, I hope the Braves trade for him. I don't want to see the Sox give up Reed and someone like Quintana or Viciedo for 10 games of Greinke. If you could get him to sign an extension, that would be one thing, but for a rental with zero compensation, you have to be careful. I would definitely give up Floyd, but Reed, I don't know. I know closers are supposedly a dime a dozen, but all that guy has ever wanted to be was a closer. I think he'll be elite eventually. The elite ones are worth their weight in gold on a good team. If the Sox do trade Floyd, they are going to have some money to play with next offseason assuming they are not dropping the payroll.

JR on MB56 from ESPN.COM: "The only thing I can tell you is when Mark told me he had a $56-million, four-year contract offer, I told him he should take it," Reinsdorf said. "I really told Mark he had to take it. At this stage of your career, it's more money than you're worth. He said he was going to take it, but he'll back in four years."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) Konerko is the only starter without a hit in this game. He's killing us.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) Good. What happened to the Twins in a nutshell? IMO, their pitching went to crap as did their defense. The contracts they gave Morneau and Mauer cost them any shot at retaining guys like Kubel and Cuddyer. Plus Morneau got hurt and hasn't been the same and Mauer is a slight upgrade in the power department from Juan Pierre. Their ballpark is very nice, but hitters aren't going to want to play there.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) So I received multiple texts from people saying Hawk said Beckham's mom turns 39 today? That can't be right... Can anyone confirm what age he said? When women get to be 40 and over, its common to say they are turning 39 on their birthday. Just don't do it when they are turning 29.

2 years ago, if the Sox were 1.5 games out of first and had 11 or 12 games left with Minnesota with around 70 to play, the season was OVA. Minnesota is horrible, and probably will be horrible for several years.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) I'm amazed people can still defend Beckham offensively at this point. What player are you watching? I'm seeing a guy with a heck of a lot of line outs this season who was hitting really well in the 2 hole which should re-open next season.

Beckham hasn't been very good offensively this year, but he has hit better than his numbers. He's definitely worth keeping around.