Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:58 PM) If the Dodgers keep lowballing the Cubs, you definitely go after Dempster if you're KW. At least you try, even if there's not a match. Why do you have to wait. Just make an offer. I'd bet he wouldn't mind staying in town. The only question is do the Cubs really want to help the Sox win? That said, I'd be fine with KW acquiring a lower rung starter, but please not Vargas. He gives up way too many homers. If he made half his starts at USCF, it would be souvenier days in the bleachers.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) Just like how many have argued this is a career year for Dempster, Greinke's fantastic CY season looks like a career year as well. He's never come close to matching that season. Dempster is incredibly underrated on here if you're looking for a 10 game stretch run from a pitcher. That's what I'm thinking and shopping for him is like going to Marshall's while shopping for Greinke is like Sak's.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:51 PM) Dempster and his fragile self has never been out of the lowly NL central, furthermore has never been out of the national league. Zach on the other hand has won a Cy Young award in the American League and has a great history against the teams we would have to get through to make the playoffs/WS. And that's not saying the night and day difference in quality of stuff the both possess. Ryan Dempster isn't in the same category as ZG and we all know that. Please stop acting like Grienke is just some ho-hum pitcher. What happened to Greinke in the AL the year after he won the Cy Young? You make it seem like this guy is just automatic. He blew in the playoffs last year as well.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) I don't think KW will blink so the Brewers have to drop their price. It is pretty entertaining to read all the speculation on here. Looking like a back end rotation starter at best. That's what they need. Someone to get Humber out of the rotation when Danks gets back. Preferrably before Danks gets back if they can go to 4.

If KW was willing to trade Sale right now for prospects, the White Sox minor league system wouldn't be ranked near the bottom anymore.

The only way it made any sense for the Sox to give up their top young guys for Greinke is if he would have signed an extension. That won't happen, and the Brewers want prospects, probably whose arb clocks haven't started. Other teams are better a better match for that. There are other guys who will make the Sox better and not have such a high cost. Out on Greinke could be a blessing in disguise.

The price tags are very high right now, but no one is buying yet. It will be interesting to see when the prices start falling.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:48 AM) In that instance, I could make a case that Flowers is about as good of a prospect as Conger. Some might not agree, but Flowers has more power potential and quite frankly is better defensively. Neither Conger/Flowers have proved much at the major league level. Flowers did show he can put up a solid OPS (last year). Hard to judge him this year since he's had limited at bats, but if I were the Rays (and having watched both players), personally, I'd go after Flowers. Physically, Flowers looks more like a young Greg Luzinski every day. Too bad he doesn't hit like him.

He's Aaron Rowand's cousin. Grindy.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) If Reed is in the deal, K rod has to come back no? Why?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) He's been an "ace" one year in his entire career. He might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball given his career stats. In many ways, he's very similar to Javy Vazquez.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) And that's why a handful of posters on here hope the Braves go out and land Greinke. If the Braves or Texas wants him as badly as KW has been reported to want him, they will get him. If not, KW will have paid a huge price, and dug the 2013-2018 White Sox a bigger hole. For the first time in a while or maybe ever, KW would actually be trading youngsters who have shown they can play at the major league level.

How happy is anyone going to be if the Sox trade any of the mentioned for Greinke and his issues either cause him to be average or the Sox don't win and he walks? KW has been grilled on this board for giving away crappy minor leaguers for major leaguers. Now many people want him to give up his top young players for a guy who is very talented, but a head case, and for 10 starts. If he doesn't lead to Sox to where they want to go and he skates away, it would be a huge error. I'd love the Sox to add Greinke, but it seems there is very little chance he'd be retained and I don't think 10 starts is worth Reed and more.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) I really hope the Sox aren't about to acquire one of these guys. I think the cost is way too severe. I like the currently assembled team and I'll take my chances on getting Danks back in August. IMO, they need to replace Humber. If they can get one of the big names without getting rid of Reed, Quintana or Viciedo, I'd be all over that, but if not, get a lesser guy who can take Humber's spot. He's an automatic loss at this point unless the team scores 10 runs.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 07:12 AM) That's not necessarily true. He removed Thornton from the closer's position in May last year for Santos, and Matt was being paid something like $5.5 million. Maybe it wasn't a FA deal or $27 million (like Heath Bell)...but he removed Takatsu as well, in early 2005. Guess Shingo also didn't have such a big contract, compared to Bell or Jenks his last couple of seasons in Chicago. I know you like to equate Thornton's performance with his paycheck, so you might as well know that he actually made $3 million last year, a little over half of what you think he did.

One he hasn't used in a while but used to always be used would be when a foul ball was hit into the empty seats down the corners and people would chase after the ball, "The race is on."

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:04 PM) Saw this on MLB tonight. 23 of the 49 runs Greinke has allowed this year have come in 5 innings. Also GB% OF 53.7% to go along with 8 k/9, perfect for the cell. 14 of the 22 runs Quintana has allowed have come in 5 innings.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:49 PM) And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed? Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you. I don't think you would find anyone disappointed in the job he's done or thinking he should be fired based on this season...you can point to 10 positives and only a few negatives (Beckham, Humber, Morel, Danks)... If they didn"t fire him after last season, they weren't going to fire him after this season even if the lost 95 games. They cut the payroll $30 million. Now that they are in contention, he's not going to get fired after 2013 either. Rick Hahn better take a GM job if he gets offered one, because the White Sox job isn't opening up unless KW quits.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:46 PM) Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4. And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy. Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham. If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago. Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters. That makes the rotation (theoretically): Sale Danks (maybe?) Floyd Humber Castro/Axelrod There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014. A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most. If Peavy leaves, even with the buyout, the Sox have 8 figures to play with. They could exercise Floyd's option and trade him and have more to play with. AJ is making $6 million, if he goes more money to play with. You're making it sound like these guys will all leave and will only be replaced by current Charlotte Knights. If the Sox continue to draw, even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they should have an opportunity to put a real competitive team on the field next season, although I agree, there is a price that is too high for a guy who is going to make 10 starts.

Whatever the Sox do, it has to be to get Humber out of the rotation.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) I've a feeling that KW is toying with the media. KW said he wanted a guy who is " Chicago Tough" and Greinke doesn't fit that at all. My idea is that KW will get Matt Garza. KW knows to get Greinke will put us in the hole next season but Garza is signed through next season. Stone was on televison last week and said the Sox wouldn't get Greinke, he's a small market pitcher. You may be right. It could be gamesmanship for another deal.

Its all going to come down to how badly the Rangers want him. The Sox can't match their offer if they want him enough. If the choice was Quintana/Reed/another prospect for 10 Greinke starts or Castro for 10 Dempster starts, which one do you choose?

I'm with you. I don't see how you give up on a talent like Beckham. Even if he's hitting .230 he helps you win. Haters gonna hate and they will always suggest he be replaced by the Chris Getz's of the world, just to change, but I think he'll hit.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:47 PM) 31.5 mil owed the next two years(not including this years salary) 4-9 4.57 era, good luck to them trying to move him Maybe they could get a nice sponsorship from KFC to defray a little cost.

This is for 10 starts. It will be interesting how much more it costs to get Greinke than it would Dempster.