Dick Allen

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:04 PM) Saw this on MLB tonight. 23 of the 49 runs Greinke has allowed this year have come in 5 innings. Also GB% OF 53.7% to go along with 8 k/9, perfect for the cell. 14 of the 22 runs Quintana has allowed have come in 5 innings.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:49 PM) And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed? Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you. I don't think you would find anyone disappointed in the job he's done or thinking he should be fired based on this season...you can point to 10 positives and only a few negatives (Beckham, Humber, Morel, Danks)... If they didn"t fire him after last season, they weren't going to fire him after this season even if the lost 95 games. They cut the payroll $30 million. Now that they are in contention, he's not going to get fired after 2013 either. Rick Hahn better take a GM job if he gets offered one, because the White Sox job isn't opening up unless KW quits.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:46 PM) Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4. And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy. Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham. If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago. Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters. That makes the rotation (theoretically): Sale Danks (maybe?) Floyd Humber Castro/Axelrod There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014. A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most. If Peavy leaves, even with the buyout, the Sox have 8 figures to play with. They could exercise Floyd's option and trade him and have more to play with. AJ is making $6 million, if he goes more money to play with. You're making it sound like these guys will all leave and will only be replaced by current Charlotte Knights. If the Sox continue to draw, even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they should have an opportunity to put a real competitive team on the field next season, although I agree, there is a price that is too high for a guy who is going to make 10 starts.

Whatever the Sox do, it has to be to get Humber out of the rotation.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) I've a feeling that KW is toying with the media. KW said he wanted a guy who is " Chicago Tough" and Greinke doesn't fit that at all. My idea is that KW will get Matt Garza. KW knows to get Greinke will put us in the hole next season but Garza is signed through next season. Stone was on televison last week and said the Sox wouldn't get Greinke, he's a small market pitcher. You may be right. It could be gamesmanship for another deal.

Its all going to come down to how badly the Rangers want him. The Sox can't match their offer if they want him enough. If the choice was Quintana/Reed/another prospect for 10 Greinke starts or Castro for 10 Dempster starts, which one do you choose?

I'm with you. I don't see how you give up on a talent like Beckham. Even if he's hitting .230 he helps you win. Haters gonna hate and they will always suggest he be replaced by the Chris Getz's of the world, just to change, but I think he'll hit.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:47 PM) 31.5 mil owed the next two years(not including this years salary) 4-9 4.57 era, good luck to them trying to move him Maybe they could get a nice sponsorship from KFC to defray a little cost.

This is for 10 starts. It will be interesting how much more it costs to get Greinke than it would Dempster.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) Not really. Unless you really believed a broken down, 5 years past his prime Rip Hamilton would've been the difference between losing in the conference finals in 2011 and getting to the finals in 2012. If you really believe that, maybe Reinsdorf really is a genius. The Heat almost blew it against a very old Boston team. I agree, counting on a Bulls team to be healthy is about as crazy as saying they are a lock to win a title, but if they were healthy, they had a decent shot. People just mention Rose being hurt, but Deng was hurt, Noah was hurt and Rip was hurt. Basically the only guy who remained healthy was the guy who always gets hurt, Boozer.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) I keep seeing people saying Floyd is the trade chip, but I can't help thinking its Quintana. Q has been great for us this year, but if you were the Brewers which would make more sense to you. A guy getting paid $9m with one year left before free agency... Or a 23 year old (lefty) at league minimum they could control for the next 5 years. And for us... Q is in the same dangerous territory that Sale is reaching innings wise. One of the main reasons for us to get another starter is to cover innings Sale and Q may not be able to pitch. What good would it do us down the stretch if we give up a 200+ inning guy like Floyd and then still be forced to dip into the minors to get coverage for Sale/Q when they max out? My guess... Quintana and Beckham are being offered along with one or more minor leaguers. This is pretty logical, but all the Sox are gaining is the upgrade to Greinke which, with his concerns, may not be an upgrade, plus you lose Beckham's defense and please don't any mention Escobar, although I'm sure Hudson would become the second baseman.

Someday the Sox will pay $23 million a year for a pitcher, but if they won't come close to giving Mark Buehrle $14 million a year for 4 years, they aren't going to offer anyone $23 million a year for even longer in the near future.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) That seems like robbery on the Sox's part. I agree that if this deal goes down, it's Floyd + a prospect for Grienke...at a minimum. I am afraid that the Sox may overpay. If there aren't talks right away of extending him (Grienke), the Sox may/will way overpay for a 2 month rental. If the Sox trade Floyd for Greinke, even if Greinke walks, that should be an upgrade this season, even if its only one or two extra wins, they probably are needed, and it frees up almost $10 million for next year for some kind of replacement. That part of the trade makes a lot of sense. Its what else that is the concern, because there has to be something else.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) When Gordon Beckham is our September/October (post-season) MVP, then we can talk. Crede was... 1) A much better power hitter 2) A much better clutch hitter, for example, getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, Uribe and Crede were awesome 741 (2003) and 717 (2004) were his OPS numbers heading into 2005... Gordon's about 100 points below that. KW was also saying the same things about Torii Hunter and Brian Anderson...or about Josh Fields. Been there, done that. As I said, July of 2005. People wanted Crede gone. 2006 Crede actually became quite the hitter until his back blew out. He was a .300 30 homer guy, but a injured Sept. ruined his numbers and although he had flashes, he was never the same. Gordon just needs some confidence. The talent is there, and it shows once in a while.

People were saying the same things about Crede in July of 2005 they are saying about Beckham now. He'll turn it around just like Joe did, only he'll be able to maintain it since his back actually works.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) Name any set-up guy in baseball making $5.5 million or more who has been less productive the last 24 months... I don't think you can come up with more names than K-Rod. Liriano-------------too easy. Thornton after a horrid April last year finished with a 3.32 ERA and 63 k's in 60 IP. This year he's at 3.70 with 37 k's in 41 innings. Not the Thornton of old but definitely productive and valuable.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) I would seriously put Liriano in the bullpen and dump Matt Thornton. Liriano throwing all-out for just an inning or two would be devastating. He can get K's, he has the two pitches that Matty doesn't. Liriano in the bullpen in 2012 7 1/3 IP 7 H 4 R 4 ER 7 BB 9 K 5.07 ERA Your hatred of Thornton makes you not see the truth. I'd take Liriano, I've seen enough of Humber, but you really undervalue Thornton. I think Hawk is the last Sox GM to make a trade with Minnesota, and it was extremely minor.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) Then you give up anything positive about having Beckham on the team. He would be just an average ML SS. And his bat, as it's trending the last 3 years, would be below average. Unless you go with the magical formula...move Gordon to SS or hit him 2nd or never make him bunt again and he'll morph into an All-Star player after struggling for 3+ years. We heard he'd be average at best at 3B, but he was pretty good after a few weeks. We heard he'd be decent at 2B, he's GG calibur. His arm is strong enough to play SS and he has some nice range. I don't know why anyone would say he'd just be average, at least defensively. And he hasn't struggled for 3+ years. He was pretty awesome the second half of 2010 before he broke his hand. Ramirez is good for 3 or 4 months of the season. It would be hard to let him go, but, even if Beckham doesn't hit next April and most of May, he'll still be even with Ramirez's production up to that point. I don't think its in the cards, but it would be a consideration.

I wonder if the Sox would be willing to trade Ramirez. Milwaukee wants a SS, and eventually move Beckham to SS.

What's funny is the Guillens always talk about the wins with the Sox. How he alone made them relavent. Now on twitter if any Sox fan digs at Oney comparing Sox/Marlins records, Oney's response is always the Sox won't win the WS and that's the only thing that matters. So according to his standard, Ozzie has really only had 1 successful year in his career. Every other season sucked.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:21 AM) My DVR cut off before the last few minutes, but I was expecting a lot worse after reading this thread. It was nothing terrible that the Guillen's said. If anything, it was annoying that 80% of the show focused on Ozzie and his family instead of focusing on the players (which is always the best part of these shows). What was funny was Ozzie said baseball had nothing to do with money, only family. Didn't he go off several months ago how winning a WS doesn't pay for his plane ticket to go watch bullfighting? That baseball was all about money. The one scene where Samson was telling Ozzie he was going on vacation and Ozzie had some comment I think was made about helping him go to the bathroom but I wasn't sure. The look Samson had on his face after Ozzie popped off was not one of amusement. He was seriously annoyed at Ozzie's response. I think Samson is a weasel, but I don't think Ozzie is going to last in Miami. Maybe he moves to the Royals and they will start playing like they did when they had George Brett.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) One thing to consider about De Aza is that he's arb eligible next year. So unless you think he's still going to improve a lot, this is probably his peak value. If he keeps playing like he's played this year, he's going to be a bargain for several years.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) Brewers are interested in DeAza. Interesting. Maybe that's why KW inquired about Ichiro. If they made the trade is there any doubt as soon as Vernon Wells is let go in LA he would be reunited with Rios.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) My biggest concern with trading Q for Greinke is that there's a solid chance Q performs just as good as Greinke does the rest of the way. Q has already dominating some of the best lineups in baseball. That's true. Greinke, IMO, is boom or bust. He's either going to go on a huge roll or will struggle with the giant spotlight.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:37 AM) Why do other teams want Floyd? If the Sox are so willing to dump him at this stage in his career, why would other teams trade for him as opposed to a younger, cheaper player? He's actually shown he can get MLB hitters out. Sometimes very well. With the others, its all projection.