Dick Allen

I don't understand picking up the option if you are planning on dumping him for basically nothing. At the very least, you are risking Frasor getting injured in the interim. The only thing that makes sense is something has now presented itself and the Sox wanted the extra cash to spend on that. If not, its a real head scratcher picking up his option in the first place.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) It's bizarre to me that competing in 2012 is so important. The goal is sustained excellence. Its also bizarre to me that a guy like you who says all the Sox players are worth about nothing on the trade market still wants to get rid of them and lose 100 games a year so you can have better draft picks. Everyone wants to be the Tampa Bay Rays. They had 10 years straight of 90 loss seasons before they turned it around. 10 years averaging 95 losses a season. There is no one here, not J4L not the milkman and not you that has patience for that.

Quentin, besides 2008, was an under appreciated hitter. Chances are he'll come up lame with something but if he plays 130 games he's a 30 homer 100 RBI guy. Those guys aren't as plentiful as they used to be. He improved a little bit defensively last year as well. Viciedo should have been playing in 2010, they needed a spot for him. I'm just dissappointed the return for Carlos Quentin is a couple of guys who will eventually be 6 year minor league free agents.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 06:08 PM) KW on trade. San Diego came back and obviously put something on the table that attracted us,” White Sox GM Ken Williams said. “Both of these guys are guys that we can ultimately see, and we can see them very quickly here.” He said the same thing about Marquez and Nunez.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:33 PM) Not to mention how can the difference between something like say $40 or $50 million even make sense to someone who has lived their life on rations? The majority of the NBA and MLB and NFL have lived the majority of their lives "on rations".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) If you look at the fangraphs world, last year he was worth about $12 million, so the surplus value if he repeated his 2011 season would be about $4 million. However, the 2 previous seasons, he was a negative value player, with his weak/injury riddle offense not offsetting his bad defense. Over the last 3 seasons, Carlos has averaged a $3.5 million player value, and he's getting paid $7-8 million. He had that 1 season, 2008, wehre he put up a $20 million value, but that was 4 seasons ago now. So he was worth $12 million last year, that's not bad, although fangraphs "worth" I have never taken too seriously. I think the only reason KW settled for this return is Viciedo. If he wasn't in the organization, KW would have held out for more or just kept Quentin.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) Just like it did when the Marlins signed Wilson and Pujols? A little different situation. Chances are if Wilson and Pujols both had bank accounts that resembled the Cuban's current one, they are Marlins right now. Wilson was going home and Pujols wanted a no trade.

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) I don't see this team returning to the playoffs while KW is still GM. He's NOT the GM to rebuild this roster. If Viciedo gives you what Quentin has given you, and De Aza can play everyday, it won't hurt the Sox winning percentage in 2012. Even if he gets $7 million to $8 million for 2012 and isn't signed beyond that, its seems hard for me to believe you can't get at least one top 10 prospect from somebody. Trading Quentin I can understand, I just don't like the haul.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) Well, no s***. I'm looking at factors outside of money. I'm saying money is the most important, all that other stuff is way down on the list, but if he does sign with the Marlins he will point out the large Cuban community, the latin manager.......its just lip service.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) Well, if he doesn't like them then we don't have a shot in hell. People do a lot crazier things than work with people they don't like in exchange for more money than others are willing to pay. I don't know what this guy is thinking, maybe he thinks of Alexei like a brother, but I don't think having Cubans on the roster or a large Cuban community gets him signed unless you are at the top or very close to the top bid.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) Agreed, but that also is probably why the Marlins are in the driver's seat for him (Cuban presence in the community) All the points are valid, but its still probably coming down to the team that gives him the most money.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) And wouldn't our strongest selling point to Cespedes be the strong Cuban presence currently in our starting lineup? I'm fairly certain that's our only strong selling point. It depends. I'd imagine he knows the Sox Cuban players. There's always a chance he doesn't like them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) If he stayed healthy, he'd never have been traded to SD. He was going regardless. Viciedo is playing RF and KW wasn't going to pay Quentin if he was healthy.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) I'm not playing your silly little Cooper/Walker game. And I'm pretty sure you don't "count" on projects (that's what Castro's looking like right now) to do much of anything, there's typically a lot more hoping and praying going on than there is expectations. As I said, the rebuilders should be thrilled with this trade. Just thrilled. Of course in a couple of years they will be pissed off. One thing is for sure, KW just f***ed Quentin out of at least a few million. Going to SD isn't going to help him cash in on a contract.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:15 PM) You really will never get over Walker, will you> This has nothing to do with Walker, it has something to do with guys like Aardsma and Sisco and MacDougal..................despite the Soxtalk consensus, Coop will fix him really doesn't apply to the vast majority. There usually is a bigger reason why guys suck more than a slight adjustment.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) I'd rather see Floyd go. But I'm one who would be selling most of the roster. I think he'll go for sure. You might actually get something for him. I still find him highly overrated on this site. Very inconsistent.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) Good luck moving that money. They will have no problem moving the money, especially if they don't care if they don't dent the other team's top 15 prospect list.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:00 PM) Or maybe he sold his sole to the devil or made a wish on an old fairground wish machine or just tried really, really, really hard after making a promise to a relative on their deathbed. The bottom line is for every pitcher you can say Cooper helped throw strikes, there are probably 25 or more you could say he couldn't help. Counting on Castro suddenly throwing strikes is something no one should really do.

It was obvious to everyone Quentin wasn't going to be a White Sox in 2012. KW's asking price certainly bottomed out considering he was supposedly asking for the moon for all his guys earlier. I'm not too thrilled with this move. This seems like Jhonny Nunez revisited.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) Gavin Floyd's walk rate with the Phillies: 5.3, with the Sox: 2.7. I'd say halving your BB/9 is a positive move in the control department. Could be, could be his age, could be sample size, could be the Sox AAA pitching coach as his BB/9 was 3.0 there in 2007 before he was called up. I can think of several who were beyond help. Maybe Castro is one of those, but he was a B+ prospect, so all the prospect guys should be thrilled.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) I know it's cliche...but you know who's pretty good at helping guys with control issues? The Chicago White Sox pitching coach. Besides Thornton, who has he turned from a guy who can't throw strikes to one who can?

QUOTE (Crash73 @ Dec 26, 2011 -> 06:56 PM) C'mon! Very few sports people in HISTORY, have wanted to see his own team fail. Are you telling me Oz wouldn't have been happy with another WS ring? What's very interesting is Cowley himself implied Ozzie was batting Dunn cleanup just to make KW look back. Ozzie denied it, but considering how little it takes for a Guillen to hold a grudge, its very interesting Oney and Co. are still letting Joe pick up their takeout.

The Bulls need more athleticism. f*** the wins. Bring back Tyrus Thomas. He's an athletic freak.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 14, 2011 -> 08:34 PM) Thanks, Tex. Those early 90's teams will always be my favorite. Which is shocking considering those teams didn't win anything and your current position being that just winning a division or making the playoffs and not winning a title is total failure.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Viciedo=Bobby Bonilla Forget the Vladimir Guerrero comparisons, a HOF career is pretty unlikely. Didn't Hawk the GM get skewered for trading Bobby Bonilla a guy he picked up in the rule 5 for Jose DeLeon?