Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 08:12 PM) Would the Bears spend all that money to do that? Especially when they could have just allowed Angelo to retire and to be frank, it probably would make the Bears look better since it would not add so many questions around Lovie's tenure since the only reason they were looking for a GM was related to the retirement (which would be a better explanation for staying the status quo with your coach but not with the GM). That's just it. Who fires their GM and their QB coach and basically fires their OC and keeps the head coach? Despite popular opinion, Angelo has had the Bears in the Super Bowl and NFC Championship game twice the past 5 years. Any other GM in this town does that, they get a close to lifetime pass. It wasn't his fault his top 2 players had season ending injuries. Not many teams are going to survive that. Obviously he has had trouble with the drafts, obviously his team is thin, but when you have several marquee players, NFL teams tend to be thin. He screwed up this year by not having a competent back up QB. An average back up probably gets the Bears in the playoffs, then maybe Cutler and Forte return, but Angelo then wouldn't be fired. I know there's a new sheriff in town, but GM's usually have to mess up a little more than that to get fired. Its just a theory, but paying out Angelo instead of having him just walk away retired (although they probably would have given him something anyway) is a small price to pay for the publicity firing him and going out and saying everything fans want to hear. If there hadn't been rumblings about Angelo stepping down for a couple of years, I doubt I would feel this way, but I really think this was more staged than an actual firing. Obviously Angelo would have had to play along, and I don't know if his pride would allow it. Again, just a theory. There's something about when a McCaskey says something about money being no object that just makes me skeptical.

I have a theory that Angelo was going to retire. Its pretty much been in the news for a couple of years. I think a lot of these rumors have legs. It was reported Martz was out weeks ago. I think the Bears realize how unpopular Angelo was and asked him to let them fire him instead. They pay off the couple of years left on his contract or another agreed upon sum, and the Bears come away looking proactive, they can say all the right things at the press conference and Jerry is basically retired with some extra gas in his tank. It might be totally crazy, but I think there's a chance its fairly accurate. The problem I see is Ted Phillips a non football guy, making this decision. The McCaskeys are forever indebted to Ted, for he is the one who got them Soldier Field redone and made their net worth leap considerably. He has a lifetime contract with them, no matter what happens. It might not eventually be working for the Bears, but the McCaskeys will make sure Ted is well taken care of the rest of his life.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) On the Score he was proclaiming it a Win Win for both teams.... Considering the money is pretty much a wash, what the Marlins would have had to pay their guy they will pay Zambrano, I'm very sorry to have to admit this, but I actually agree with him. It could blow up in their faces, but its worth a shot for the Marlins and Zambrano had to go, and no one was going to take his contract so the Cubs got something that has a slight chance of panning out. I'm no fan of KW, but it is a given had KW made the same deal and got Zambrano, Cowley would have written 3 or 4 columns ripping him for it.

Whats Cowleys take on this? I'm guessing a whole lot different than had KW been the one to acquire bim.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 12:49 PM) How the F*** did he rack up $1.2 billion in debt on a $400 million purchase? Does he know Jon Corzine?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) k nobody cares. George McCaskey says that it was not hard to bite the money owed to angelo. It will not be a decision in finding the candidate now, and in the future money will not be considered for personnel decisions. I hope this is truly the case. He really said that? Forte will be happy to hear that, but you know it can't be true. How can money not be a factor in personnel decisions, especially in a league with a salary cap?

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 09:41 AM) I would expect Cespedes to play in the minor leagues in 2012. If he is on fire and the Sox have to make a spot for him in the lineup, then I think Rios would be the guy to go. Either he would be traded with the Sox giving cash because he is playing well and has value or he is outright released because he is not performing and would be a distraction on the bench. He could also move De Aza to the bench if Rios actually plays very well. I really would love for the Sox to sign Cespedes. Even if it doesn't work out, it is a ballsy move that could add a superstar the Sox for the rest of the decade. The guy is at least 26 years old. If a team gives him the money they are talking about, its to play in the major leagues, and the Sox owe Rios close to $40 million. No way they release him.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 07:14 PM) my bad. got two of the guys mixed up. we got four new pitchers, don't have em all straight yet since they're no names. how bout this: a young flamethrowing lefty AND a guy built like Jose Contreras who started the futures game 2 years ago. I'm ok with it Yet neither was able to crack SD's top 20 prospects. I know SD has a pretty decent system, but not being in the top 20 would seem to indicate future success in the major leagues is a longshot at best. Correction, Castro was #20 I believe. I find it hard to believe Carlos Quentin isn't worth something a little more than that, and really I have no problem with KW moving him along. Let's see if KW spends some money soon. If he does, this obviously was a dump, he settled for less because he needed to free up money. That's not a shot, that's just reality and understandable. If he doesn't spend money soon, it indicateds he shopped Quentin around and he was worth nothing, and this was the best nothing KW thought available. These guys are longshots at best, nothing to get excited about.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 07:08 PM) It isn't 2008 Greg, Carlos Quentin is literally a mediocre hitting DH (his hitting stats are equivalent to that of an average DH) that can play the outfield (poorly I might add). What kind of value does that really bring to teams, especially NL teams? Of the full time DH's, Quentin's OPS would have been second in the AL, over 100 points higher than 3rd place. I would imagine that isn't average, but again, let's not let facts get in the way of saying Quentin sucks.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 07:09 PM) i did no such thing. I didn't say these two guys are going to pan out at all. I'm just saying that nobodies CAN turn into somebodies. That's it. And Castro was a highly touted prospect until he had a bad year. You'll cut CQ a break on his s***ty seasons but not a young flamethrowing lefty build like Jose Contreras? I want these guys to be good so, so badly. Mostly just to pull this thread back up in a couple years. A young flame throwing lefty built like Jose Contreras. Dude, you need to read up on him then start your argument again.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 07:00 PM) repeat after me: at this point in time, Quentin didn't HAVE value. Quentin. Didn't. Have. Value. There you go. What do you mean he didn't have value, you just compared the prospects received for him to Konerko, Danks, Thornton, Buerhle, Garland. 3 of which were Ron Schueler's doing. KW fleeced SD.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 06:56 PM) hahahahaha and you think every OTHER teams' prospects have all panned out huh? Yeah this is definitely unique to KW and the White Sox. 95% of ALL prospects don't pan out. Exactly my point, although I would venture to guess KW's percentage is a little lower than average. You're the one basically guaranteeing these not even top 20 prospects in their own organzations are going to turn out like Danks, Konerko, That's why trading proven players for prospects is dangerous and most of the time stupid, unless you are doing it for financial reasons. For winning it doesn't work out much anymore as teams are more reluctant than ever to give up their top guys.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) it's just greg and DickAllen - and it's because we traded him for guys they've never heard of. Kind of like that no namer we drafted in the 38th round in '98, or that third base prospect we got from the Reds, or that kid we traded Matt Karchner for from the Cubs, and that lefty we got from Seattle for the next cant-miss prospect AKA Joe Borchard, or that southpaw we've got replacing Buehrle who we got from Texas a few years back... forget his name too... OH WAIT NOW I REMEMBER ALL OF THEM! Mark Buehrle Paul Konerko Jon Garland Matt Thornton John Danks we didn't know their names either. Actually knew everyone but Buerhle but its nice to know the guys KW acquired for Quentin are guaranteed to turn out like the above. 4 out of 5 were first round draft picks. It is interesting you didn't list all the other players that have been acquired that we didn't "know" and never will, but that would be accurate and ruin your post. Trading Quentin isn't wrong, trading him for garbage is. Just call it a salary dump and leave it at that. Expected anything out of these prospects is silly. All you need to know about the Quentin trade, David Kaplan loved it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 01:10 PM) But this isn't what you said at all in the post I replied to. You said if you didn't like trading for Jackson, then you should want to trade Floyd immediately. Those two things are not even close to the same thing. One involves acquiring a player you have to spend valuable assets for, and another involves trading away an asset you already have. Completely different things. Wrong. Jackson is better than Floyd. If you don't want his services for 1.5 seasons, which was the complaint from day 1, why would you want Floyd's services for 2 seasons? It seems to me if you didn't like acquiring a guy for that length of time and would rather have what it cost to get him, you would rather have the return on Floyd than have him with an almost identical if not more expensive contract.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 12:38 PM) I woudln't offer that as the White Sox either, but the White Sox don't need pitching. He'd be a big addition to the disasters that were those Boston or NYC rotations, and then there are a bunch of others who could use a righty who takes a lot of innings. The White Sox could alway s use pitching but Boras is going to get a 4 or 5 year deal for Jackson and there is no way JR is going to be committing big money to 2 pitchers for that length of time, unless he's getting out soon. So I do agree, no way Jackson comes back to the Sox, at least not now, I really doubt the Sox have even considered it.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) stats be DAMNED???? are you kidding me? and what exactly was he good for all the other times when he WASN'T locked in? You're telling me you're supposed to keep a player who's good only 25% of the time?? I know by now I should just ignore you, but that's up there with one of the dumber things I've read from you. About 95% of MLB hitters get their stats in bunches. The guy who is really consistent week to week is pretty rare. If Quentin hits 24 homers and drives in 80 runs only being good 25% of the time, he's pretty spectacular that 25%.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 11:33 AM) ? Umm, the difference was the Sox already had Floyd on the roster. No one was angry that Jackson was acquired to pitch for us. People were upset about who was used to acquire him (as well as whose spot in the rotation he ultimately took). I don't think anyone disliked Edwin Jackson simply for being Edwin Jackson. However, were a team to offer us a pitcher as effective and with as many pre-arb years left as Dan Hudson when we traded him, I don't think you'd find many people who would complain. Umm, right back at you. A LOT of posters didn't like Jackson then and didn't like him ever with the Sox. The consensus on this board comparing Edwin Jackson and Gavin Floyd would have Floyd the far better pitcher even though Jackson is younger and has been getting better results recently. The fact is, if you think giving Jackson $10-12 million a year is ridiculous, you should think doing the same for Floyd would also be ridiculous, and it makes Floyd's $9.5 million option for 2013 not so much of a bargain as many consider. Its time to deal Gavin if you expect to get anything but the type of return you saw for Quentin.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 2, 2012 -> 08:07 AM) Why would a team trade for Floyd if Jackson is still on the market? The only reason would be if Jackson's demands are outrageous, which would basically eliminate us from the conversation in the first place. So basically, we'd have to sign Jackson and then deal Floyd. I just don't know if I see KW attempting to do such a series of moves. Reinsdorf has never seemed like the type of owner to allow KW to temporarily go over budget to pull off something like this. I like the idea in theory, as I wouldn't mind another starter locked up long-term, and I actually like Jackson more than Floyd (not even including the young talent you'd get for Floyd). However, I think it's clear by the timing of these moves that KW has cleared salary to make a run at Cespedes. Seems like KW waited until to around the new year to make these moves, allowing for offers to improve until he actually needed the cash for Cespedes, who should be a free agent soon. What is interesting is Jackson is actually younger than Floyd and they have been pretty similar overall, Jackson may have even out performed him overall the last 3 seasons. So anyone pissed off the Sox traded for Jackson with a year and a half left on his contract, should probably want Floyd dealt immediately.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) Because he offered to resign and JR said "You can stay" and he didn't quit and throw a tantrum. He really didn't offer to resign. He offered to take another job in the organization. What he didn't say is whether or not he also offered to have his paycheck adjusted accordingly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) $80 million lump sum, $80 million. He said both of them. They don't have to pay a lump sum if the player is released. They pay according to the schedule that is on the contract.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 04:48 PM) If we pursue Cespedes than I am ok with it. I had no problem with the Teahan deal, but it seemed to signal KW's moves to try and somehow recover from some real bad decisions personnelwise on his part. Trading for Teahen was fine. It was the extension that most everyone could see was insane.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) Don't forget also clearing nearly $10 million on Teahen. Esp. if we happen to sign that Cuban guy. That's a good point, although they never would have had to worry about clearing that money if the GM had been more competent.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) The all-mighty AA gave him third round money. He has to be good. Considering it was the same draft the Sox picked a guy who thought he was top 3 round talent in round 22, then had his big mouthed brother say the only reason no one drafted poor little Ozney before the 22nd round was because the Sox said they were drafting him, maybe the Blue Jays announced to the world they were taking this guy so that scared everyone else off. I never knew the draft worked that way until Oney enlightened me.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) Drop the draft pick rankings stuff. Both were guys who went way over slots in the later rounds. Jaye was paid like a third rounder. Then why didn't the Sox draft him in the 3rd or 4th round?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) Carlos Quentin might well have been worth less than Frasor, if you consider how much each of them are getting paid next year. Way off.