Dick Allen

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Back in the days of the old park, and when Robert Taylor homes were still there, there was very good reason to be scared of it. No way I would have gone there. But now? Works great, and I feel no less safe than at the Red Line stop. The green line 35th street stop was the red line 35th street stop through the 90 or 91 season. Then they switched.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 09:40 AM) Good thing you are not a Cardinals fan, then....can't imagine what you would be saying about Pujols. At least Albert HAD the option to come back for something like $40-50 million less in total dollars, and he was offered more by the Marlins. Mark never was offered by the Cardinals or the White Sox, to our knowledge. As far as grading the Winter Meetings, it's way too early. Most of baseball has been waiting on Pujols and Wilson. Fielder's still out there....I just read an article praising Boras for not striking too quickly, so the same thing has to be true about holding onto Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Thornton and potentially AJ/Ramirez/Konerko. There are 7 teams out there (at least) still looking for a 1B. I would actually rather they traded Konerko and stuck Dunn/Viciedo/Quentin at 1B and let DeAza play everyday. Now that Buehrle's gone, they aren't so much better off waiting for Konerko to recede back to norm/mean. They could actually get something decent back in return and clear more contract space for 2012/2013. Frasor was all about KW's ego and having to prove the value of that Jackson deal. But with Sale, Santos and probably Thornton gone, they thought he was needed for additional depth. In reality, the pen will probably be Reed/Crain/Frasor/Ohman/Santiago/Molina or Stewart. The only expensive pitchers in that pen are Crain and Frasor, the two veterans. Ohman's 'meh' as far as contract dollars, sure, a bit of an overpay, but he's going to have to earn his money this year. But there's just no way to possibly grade KW at all until we see what our final roster is heading into April. That's 4-7 players who could all be traded, which is obviously a significant portion of the payroll going forward. Considering all the missteps that have occurred since 2005, the White Sox are in this mess because of 2 moves. Picking up Rios on waivers and not re-signing Thome when he was willing to do so for pennies. They sign Thome, he has a decent year like he did when he first went to MN, he gets resigned . Adam Dunn, even with all his consistent numbers doesn't even enter the equation.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 09:08 AM) The first clear sign that the rebuild is going wrong, I think KW will finally be moved upstairs. He was owed the chance to at least try to fix his own mess without Ozzie around to sabotage things. Everyone knows the history of first round draft picks, and our barren minor league system. Just a year ago, Beckham looked like a future All-Star, and Sale a future rotation fixture, if not Randy Johnson Lite. Mitchell was doing great the year he was drafted....unfortunately, that ankle injury set him back 1 1/2 years. There's nothing KW could have done to prevent that one. It's not like everything he's done has been horrible recently. They got more than anyone in the majors could get out of both Humber and Santos. Have nurtured Dayan Viciedo along quite nicely. Selected a future closer in Addison Reed. Picked up DeAza for nothing. Morel showed lots of promise the final six weeks of the season, if only he can continue to build on that. Tyler Flowers finally showed some signs, Lillibridge even moreso. We're we saying the same kinds of things about KW after 2001, before 2005, after 2007 and again now? One way or the other, we have to live with JR's decision, so I've decided it's easier to think optimistically rather than just be upset about the last 3 seasons. The NBA is all about superstars, and everyone knew that Jordan and Pippen were 60% of the reason for the Bulls' success. That's so hard to replicate in baseball or the NFL. None of the players you have mentioned have actually proven themselves as of yet. If all goes perfectly, which is highly unlikely, the Sox still would need some top of the line guys who also panned out. I also don't understand the idea of "kicking him upstairs". I guess it was because Paxson was kicked upstairs but that's only because he wanted to still do GM stuff without having all the GM responsibilities like dealing with the press, and JR wanted him to still be part of the decision making process. I don't know how anyone would call the Sox GM job a good one knowing JR's boy KW is still around carrying a voice. You'd be a fake GM just like a lot of the GM jobs in baseball.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 08:21 AM) Because we won our only World Series in most of our lifetimes with him as the GM, Rick Hahn's still around and we've added some experienced guys in scouting and development. I get it....the last 3 years have been brutal and it's easier to look at the glass as half empty rather than half full, but we've been fooled before when we had high expectations (2001/2006/2009/2011) and we've excelled when we were the underdogs and nothing was expected out of us. The Bulls won 6 championships with Jerry Krause as the GM. At some point it becomes obvious that people lose their touch. No one came knocking at Krause's door to build them a winner. I doubt any team wants a guy who has a $127 million payroll in the AL Central and finishes 3rd. Now you want to trust KW to rebuild your team. Lets look at the first round picks since Kenny has been calling the shots: SEASON PLAYER POS SCHOOL/HOMETOWN PICK 2010 Chris Sale LHP Florida Gulf Coast University 13 2009 Jared Mitchell OF LSU 23 2008 Gordon Beckham SS Univ. of Georgia 8 2007 Aaron Poreda LHP San Francisco 25 2006 Kyle McCulloch RHP Texas 29 2005 Lance Broadway RHP TCU 15 2004 Josh Fields 3B Oklahoma State 18 2003 Brian Anderson OF U. of Arizona 15 2002 Roger Ring LHP San Diego State 18 2001 Kris Honel RHP Providence HS, New Lenox 16 You really think it would be a 2-3 year process with this bozo? He needs to go, pronto. Say thanks for 2005, but we actually want to win, not come up with excuses and catch phrases like "Chicago tough". How JR can't see through all his BS, especially his Ventura story, and make no mistake, I actually don't mind his hiring, but the whole BS about interviewing for a managerial position while he was playing, is beyond me. Trying to make himself actually be what most erroneously think he is, a Stanford educated intellectual who happens to have a background in baseball is more BS. The reality was he was there on a football scholarship and lasted one semester. He's a phony. If JR was only going to get of one, he did the right thing and launced Ozzie. Ozzie would have been a huge problem if he won out over his boss. But he really needed to get rid of both.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 07:32 AM) I'm glad they didn't too. What happens if they came up with an offer just below the Marlins. Then it puts Buehrle in the position of looking like the bad guy signing with the highest bidder and abandoning the "home town discount" crap every team hopes their fan favorite players sign. Of course, he may have returned -- but I don't feel it's right for Buehrle to have his last big contract for this team when we'll probably have some tough years ahead. Let the White Sox look bad in the eyes of the few who can't see this team for what it is. I think to have a pitcher of Buehrle's calibur, one where it was reported there were 14 teams on him, to NEVER even make him an offer looks bad. Not before he became a free agent, not at the end of the process when from what he said and I was watching, he wasn't looking for a match. Buehrle signed a 4 year $58 million contract and he called it a sad day. What's even sadder is where the White Sox apparently are at right now, and the people most responsible for that are still making the decisions. I can't fathom why anyone would be optimistic with a rebuild with KW at the helm.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:47 AM) MLB has done exactly this many times before, without owning a team. Go back and research when the Oakland A's literally tried to sell of their world series teams in the 70's. Many thought the reason those particular deals were cancelled was something personal between Kuhn and Finley. IIRC the last time the commissioner blocked a trade or major league signing which didn't involve illegal contact or something like that with a foreign player was 1990, when the White Sox were denied adding Minnie Minoso to the roster. The league owning a team is so wrong in so many ways IMO.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:39 AM) Speaking of giving it a rest, the dude is already better than Lance Broadway ever was. Check Lance Broadway at Birmingham as a 22 year old vs. Doyle at Birmingham as a 25 year old, then pop off.

Buehrle just on CSN, called today a sad day. Said he never received an offer from the Sox, said when things were going to go down, went back to the Sox for some sort of offer, not neccessarily a match, and the Sox declined. So he confirmed the Sox never made him an offer. I think its pretty hard to call a guy a hypocrite when the team apparently didn't want him.

He's 26 years old. Give it a rest. The Sox most likely will be able to buy him back for $25k. The chances of him turning into anything better than Lance Broadway are slim.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) Looks like the Knicks got a bargain on Tyson Chandler at 4 years and 58 million. Thrifty SOB's. That's Mark Buehrle money.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) It may not be rocket science but are looking at it from a very narrow point of view. His defensive stats are awful but does this outweigh the fact that he will hit better when he plays in the field? you need to look at both sides. also your your point about 75 pitch Peavy is short sighted. If he doesn't pitch more than that he will never build up strength thus he would never be able to pitch more than that. He was coming off a major injury and needed to build up the strength. You can quote stats all you want and most have some validity (but not reliability) to them. However you also need to look at the player as well and there may be a better way to look at it. As any researcher knows I can create any statistical model to say what I want, it doesn't mean it is generalizable to every case. Dunn actually hit better as a DH than he did playing the field. He was 14-122 when playing the field with 60 strikeouts. That pencils out to a .115 average. It truly is amazing how bad he was in 2011. I think he's a lock to improve, but he can improve a bunch and still be bad.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 1, 2011 -> 12:52 PM) 2011 Full Season ticket package price vs. 2012 Full Season ticket package price. Level 2011 Price 2012 Price Premium Club Box 3682 3682 Club Box 3439 3439 Prem. Lower Box 3682 3682 Lower Box 3034 2918 Lower Reserve 2710 2432 Bleachers 2548 2270 Prem. Upper Box 1900 1865 Upper Box 1738 1460 Upper Reserve 1414 974 Parking remains the same. $1458 for 81 games. $18 per game. Did you get the email about buying parking before 12/31? There's a new $2 city tax or something. I never had parking so it just glanced at it, but if you don't buy before then, I believe the parking is increasing, although the Sox won't see any of it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Where's Greg Hibbard when needed, haha? This whole thread is ridiculous. Buehrle has said the same types of things that EVERY ATHLETE IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS has said about money. It would be the corollary to an athlete saying, "F--- my family, I'm going where the union and my agent tell me to go, for the most years, and the most dollars." Buehrle leaving was the right business decision for the Sox, there's no question about it. It just seems pointless that we kept the likes of Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel on the team for as long as we did...but I guess most of that can probably be blamed on Ozzie, right? Buehrle will always be a favorite...and the lack of reaction is more of a generalized acceptance that our team is returning to the 1985-1989 and 1998-1999 mode of rebuilding and patience. That KW is still around absolutely sucks...when all we can do is hope if things go wrong next year (again) that it's so uncomfortable for Williams that he has no choice but to fall on his own sword. Seriously, it absolutely sucks when you expect that you're more likely to compete for the #1 overall draft pick than first place, and yet you have zero faith the White Sox will actually select the right player. I guess because Ozzie and Mark will be together, that does cause more of an emotional reaction on the part of fans...that he picked Ozzie over the White Sox/KW. Anyone is free to see it that way...but the same thing will happen to the future Marlins as happened to the 1997 and 2003 teams, eventually. I prefer to HOPE that everything that can go wrong won't continue to go wrong forever...otherwise, I won't be watching any baseball games for the next 2-3 seasons, except to watch Dayan Viciedo and Paul Konerko hit. They might as well just send Konerko, Danks, AJ, Thornton, Ramirez, Quentin and Floyd packing. With the possible exception of Ramirez, none of them will be around for when the White Sox are capable of contending again. I do think the fact Buehrle is back with Ozzie does make this whole thing chap my ass a little bit more than it usually would.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:48 PM) Yeah, those s***ty fake fans, supporting the team at their lowest! Well you didn't support them this year when they were "all in". I guess you owe them one. Will you be wearing a paper bag over your head.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) There is a reason why Loria refuses to offer no-trade clauses. There's huge danger if the team fails and/or the people stop coming to the games. If guys are owed too much money, their contract is their no trade clause. If Reyes averages 100 games a year, he doesn't need a no trade clause.

Is this contract backloaded? Reyes' contract is and supposedly so was the one offerred to Pujols. I get the feeling Loria wants a couple of years in the new park and then wants to sell.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:35 PM) Holy f***ing hell in the name of almighty allah most gracious/most merciful - Aaron Rowand f***ing sucks! Do you people not follow baseball outside of the Sox? Teams? Players? Aaron Rowand reminds me of that smell that comes from dirty belly-button. You do not give roster spots to terrible baseball players because, well, there is no f***ing reason. Stop it, people. Adam Dunn was hitting clean up for the Sox a good portion of 2011. Aaron Rowand may be terrible, but if he's on the roster, he's not the worst player on the team.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:26 PM) No, I know your stance. Your stance is blatantly obvious. I can't wait to read you b****ing and moaning for the next 2 years. At least now maybe you can drop the budget conspiracy theories since you're no longer a season ticket holder. Except I was correct about the budget and only complained about the payroll in 2009 when they raised season ticket prices and lowered payroll, when they had season ticketholders captive because of non refundable unused playoff ticket money. If you recall, your boy KW only had $.50 then and everything was priced at $1. The budget was already stretched. Then he traded for Jake Peavy and picked up Alex Rios on waivers. I did say I liked the Peavy move and would never criticize your precious KW for it, and never have. They "found" some money even though attendance was down. The next year they cried poor again. Attendance dropped again, then Edwin Jackson and his bloated salary is acquired and JR must have had some luck with his metal detector on Oak Street beach as KW was able to pick up Manny Ramirez for 1 month and $4 million after a steroid suspension to drive in 2 runs. The next offseason, now remember, your precious KW has always said everything coming in is spend and he only has $.50 when things cost $1, the Sox find some more money for Adam Dunn, bring back Konerko and AJ and have a team record payroll. JR finally admitted the team really doesn't spend every dime that comes in, they "save a little here, save a little there". Say what you want, but the facts show my stance about White Sox finances was far more accurate than yours.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:12 PM) I didn't misinterpret it, I just chose that moment to comment on your stance which I gathered from 2 or 3 different threads, as well as the posters who want these trades done now but also want maximum value. Sorry, I shouldn't have bothered to quote that particular comment. You had my stance wrong, at least concerning KW's current asking price. I'm not faulting him for it. Some team will either panic or the price will come down. He can't f*** up these deals or the Sox will be bad for a long time. I do think KW needs to go, which I'm sure you don't agree with.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:10 PM) Santos Viciedo (the jury's still out) Addison Reed picking up DeAza for nothing Phil Humber The Ohman 2 year deal isn't horrible...in the overall list of worst decisions of MLB GM's, it's just "meh." I'll agree that if Rios/Dunn/Peavy don't perform at all this year and we have to eat all of their contracts (without Rios or Dunn just retiring or giving up), then we're in huge trouble. We all know that. That list of players isn't exactly the heart of a WS contender. Obviously you need complimentary players. For the Sox to develop the core players, that's going to require something different than what's been going on since KW sat in his "chair". He's picked some up, but he hasn't developed many.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:38 PM) Even better then if it's a minor league deal and ST invite. Why not. What the hell. If the Sox signed him, it would be for the minimum with SF picking up the balance. I don't see the harm in it. Chances are he sucks., but if he's decent and the Sox don't contend they could trade him for a 26 year old in A ball with a 5.00 ERA.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:56 PM) All I can say is that one would hope Hahn has been a driver of some of these decisions as well. So we should promote Hahn? Some of you guys are just complaining to complain. The players have not lived up to their end of the bargain by a long shot, remember that too. The guy who acquired these players and created this mess shouldn't be the guy responsible for fixing it. Its apparent there is something missing. His winter ball comments about Molina are disconcerning. He thinks he's playing winter ball now, but hie's not. Then the Sox have Reifert spin something. So if this is KW's trade, he's not up to speed on the player. If its someone else's trade, how about the Sox living up to it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:58 PM) Which is what he should be doing on December 7th. I'm not sure what the f*** you want, Dick...do you want him to get good prospects for these pieces or do you want him to just give them away? For everyone crying about Santos not being shopped more, why the hell are you also crying that there has not been more trades made? Make up your damned minds. You are misinterpreting my post. Again. Please look at what I was responding to and post again. There's nothing wrong for asking for an overpay. He claimed there was no market for these players. There obviously is one, but the bids are currently not anywhere near the offer.

Hopefully this guy isn't Dexter Carter II. 22 innings above A ball, is still fairly raw IMO. KW doesn't seem to know much about him, he didn't even know what he was up to at this time. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. If you are going to totally rebuild, get rid of KW now.

KW's back to his broke quotes. To sign Buehrle he apparently would have to go to the ATM 58 million times. STFU KW, if you don't have any money the reason for that is looking right at you everytime you look into the mirror. He has screwed up royally. I was starting to figure Buerhle was gone, and it bothered me a bit, but now its really pissing me off.