Dick Allen

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) So which is it, DA? Is it just baseball, or is it "just because you stand next to Maddon doesn't mean you are the next Joe Maddon..."? You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit. The "it's just baseball" line might sit with me better if we didn't just go through a few years of some head-scratchers. I agree that Dave Martinez is probably not going to be Joe Maddon cloned, as the guy's brilliance extends well-beyond just the statistics (I think he's a freaking master motivator), but Maddon also strikes me as someone who would take the responsibility of mentoring a younger coach very seriously (just as he learned from Scoscia). I think the model of mentor/student seems to work pretty well as far as coaching goes and we've seen it work across all sports. Signing Martinez up would probably be a pretty safe bet. I didn't contradict myself at all. A few posts mentioned bench coach vs. first base coach. I said I'd be fine with either, but I guess you missed that. My point was Sandy Alomar Jr. has plenty of experience and background to run a team. Toronto interviewed both last year and like Alomar a little more, but obviously not enough to hire him. Since KW seemingly knows Sandy a little better, I think if Sandy wants the job, unless Martinez blows them away in the interview, its his .

Harold Baines and Joey Cora were bench coaches. This is baseball not splitting atoms. I'm pretty sure Sandy Alomar Jr. has seen just about every situation imaginable. The he was a first base coach thing means nothing to me. He's been around baseball all his life and he's a bright guy.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 07:35 PM) There's a huge difference in experience, neither has been a manager obviously but one of them was a bench coach for 4 years on a team that won 2 division titles, a Wild Card and a Pennant. The other has 2 years experience as a first base coach in the city of Cleveland and 2 years as a catching instructor with the Mets before that. I have nothing against Sandy, I don't think he'd be reserved at all, he could be a fine manager and if he gets the job I won't be upset but the prospects of Dave Martinez just excite me significantly more. It mostely has to do with my love of Joe Maddon, that guy is all kinds of special. I just don't understand how standing next to Joe Maddon is going to make you the next Joe Maddon. Obviously, I don't know Martinez but I'm sure he'll get an interview. If its Martinez, Francona (although if he's available, I think he'll be a little too pricey for JR's taste) or Sandy, I'll be happy, but happiest if its Sandy. I like his background. He was very respected as a player, Thome called him the leader of those great Cleveland teams. According to Stone, he's very respected in the Cleveland clubhouse. Maddon is great, but that doesn't guarantee Martinez will great. Sometimes playing second fiddle is a better gig for people. Sandy could suck too, but the White Sox mentioned Sandy as a future manager 8 years ago. I think KW and JR will be most comfortable with him. Toronto liked him a little more than Martinez last year, although that doesn't necessarily mean anything. But if its close, familiarity usually wins. Who knows maybe one or both take a different job.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:49 PM) Interesting. Cowley is known for bashing Kenny but his latest article does make a good point. Looking at all the homer runs on Adam Dunn’s baseball card, rather than doing some homework on a guy who never had to play with expectations, is career suicide. That is just about Dunn but you look at the Teahen acquisition as well. Rosenbloom had an article about the bigger the game the smaller the Sox. I always question the mental makeup of this team. If something like this doesn't change with a new staff you have to wonder there is something the scouts and KW seem to miss. Adam Dunn has had to play with expectations.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) Second baseman Gordon Beckham, whose struggles sparked a spat between Walker and general manager Ken Williams last month, also was sad to see Walker depart. "We’re good friends, you know, away from baseball," Beckham said. "He lives in Georgia and we spend some time together in the off-season, so it’s sad to see him go. "But I think it’s his decision and his time in terms of what he thinks and what he wants to do. I respect it 120 percent." GB it was not his decision, no matter how many players say it in the paper. Nice editing to try to make a false point. Here's AJP's quote, and I know, what is he going to say, but Walker is gone and AJP is supposedly the world's biggest asshole: I think sometimes - not sometimes, all the time - he doesn't get the credit he deserves," said Pierzynski. "I've know him for seven years. He's taught me more than I ever knew about hitting. I think because certain guys haven't done what people expected out of them I think he's got a bum rap and he deserves to credited with a lot of really good people and lot of success. "And it 's a shame. I hope people remember what he did and what he taught people. And moving forward whoever is the next hitting guy here is going to have big shoes to fill because Greg Walker did a lot of really good things here and he deserves a ton of credit. And hopefully now that he decided to step away, he'll get that."

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) Ditka wanted to stay with the Bears, and even though McCaskey wanted to fire him for years (since '84 actually), Ditka never publicly said anything against McCaskey either himself or through a proxy. JR wanted Ozzie to stay but Ozzie quit on the organization. He said today he and his family discussed doing this for years. There obviously was a difference in their departures, but everything else was almost exactly the same. As far as what Ozzie says, he's like the weather in Chicago. Wait 10 minutes and you'll get a different story.

I read something today comparing Ozzie to Ditka, and it was eerily similar. They also said they wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie's tenure in Miami goes a lot like Ditka's in New Orleans. What's also peculiar is the Marlins obviously tampered. The fact that the Sox don't call them out on this just shows how much they really care Ozzie is gone. Also read where Ozzie's contract is 4 years $10 million. Not bad, but not the $4 million a year many reported. Still its a $700k raise from 2011. If I got a $700k raise, I'd be pretty happy about it.

I want Sandy to come back. Martinez can grow a sweet beard, but I don't know why being Maddon's bench coach automatically makes you a great candidate. He was kind of quiet as a player. I do like the fact Sandy was a catcher and a real big guy. I think he's a no BS guy who players would still find cool. I think he has most, if not all of Ozzie's good traits, without all the garbage that comes with it. He's a classy guy. I don't think he believes in having guys bunt who can't bunt, and if a guy isn't hitting, I don't think he'd be against hurting their feelings by either moving them down in the order or let them sit on the bench.

QUOTE (onedude @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 07:33 PM) Further evidence, I believe, looking at Nick Swisher can tell you right away. Good offensive player was brought in by KW(his job). Swisher proceeded to have a bad year...on/off the field. Kenny then trades Swisher(being a liability offensively after the bad year), who then goes back to career norms. I would say coaching has more to do with how a player succeeds or fails far more than the GM. Swisher didn't work with the Sox hitting coach. At all. He's pretty much the only player since Walker has been around that went put up better numbers elsewhere. A couple of guys had big seasons after they were moved on, Rowand in 2007, but the numbers pretty much matched his 2004 numbers and he did consult with Walker in the winter of 2006/7. Uribe had a nice year in SF, but that matched his first year with the Sox. Thome had a nice year in Minnesota, but he had nice numbers with the Sox and Minnesota picked his spots. So really, you can blame the hitting coach, but the real problem is the hitters. If the Sox went with the same line up next year they have gone with this year, it wouldn't be long before the new hitting coach would be considered a buffoon by most.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 07:32 PM) Griffey too. And Manny. That only cost Uncle Jerry $4 million.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 01:39 AM) Amen. Post more often. Some of us blame players; some blame managers/coaches. It's to each his/her own. Ozzie didn't get fired. He refused to work the last year of a contract he signed. In a nutshell, he quit.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 05:09 AM) The Sox can wait for the Rays to do whatever. If time is really that much of an issue, then hope Boston somehow wins tomorrow and Tampa loses. Dave Martinez is 20x the candidate Alomar is. So I take it you have spoken with both. I really don't understand how any of us could know who really is the better candidate. Basing everything on one guy being a first base coach and one guy being Joe Madden's bench coach is akin to selecting NFL players the draft based soley on what school they attended, without any regard to anything else. Last year Alomar and Martinez were both interviewed for the Toronto job. Neither got it, but Alomar was the runner up.

Congratulations to Adam Dunn who set a White Sox single season record for strikeouts. His 3 whiffs tonight bring his record breaking total to 177 and he had a lot of time off. It appears .160 will be the new Dunn line. .200 already the Mendoza line, .160 seems like a good number. Adam will need a hit in the season finale to finish above it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:09 PM) Winning will bring the kind of relevency that actually matters. The relevency Ozzie brought was that the White Sox were a reality tv show gone bad. Not once, in the many, many articles written about Ozzie and the Organization was it referred to as a class or model organization. The only thing in and apparently staying in Chicago that will now become irrelevant is Cowley.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) What will be more interesting would be if they ever did something, anything, to honor Williams. It would be pretty unprecedented. It's not like the guy is Branch Rickey or even Theo Epstein. Yet with how we erect statues and put pictures and names on the walls, anything is possible. As long as JR is the owner, it's 98% certain there will be something for Ozzie unless he does something reprehensible while managing the morals...the managerial equivalent of Alomar spitting on Hirschbeck. (And yes, in the end, that didn't prevent him from making the HOF). JR hung a Jerry Krause banner in the United Center.

QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) Could this be true? Thoughts? Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgeL...esox-afterozzie Article: CHICAGO (AP)—White Sox general manager Ken Williams says he offered to step aside or take another job in the organization after some of his offseason moves failed to pan out and the team floundered. Williams made his comments in the dugout the day after manager Ozzie Guillen was released from his contract with one year remaining. Guillen is expected to become the Marlins’ new manager. Williams says he made the offer to owner Jerry Reinsdorf and would have understood if the White Sox wanted to put someone else in his seat. Chicago will miss the playoffs for a third straight season. Williams reiterated Tuesday he has a short list of candidates to replace Guillen and already has started to work on finding a successor KW said as much in a CSN interview. He also mentioned the "as long as I sit in this chair" line about 10,000 times. It sounds so pompous. He was talking like he and Ozzie had some disagreements, but no big deal and he was sad he was gone. I think the truth is halfway between what KW says and Cowley writes. And the major revelation was he was going to be the Sox GM for the next couple of years at the very least.

QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:46 PM) To me that is where KW went wrong after 2005. Many (myself included) were excited about the possible improvement in 2006 when the Sox acquired Thome, Vazquez, and Mackowiak. However, in hindsight, the sudden influx of cash may have been better spent on ground up development in the DR, Venezuela, Asia, Cuba, improved scouting dept., etc. They still would have competed at a decent level over the next 2-3 years and the results likely would have been no less disappointing. They could have used the money to improve the stable of talent a la the Braves building on their success in 1991 primarily via player development. KW could have continued to do what he does best with reclamation project FA signings and lower profile trades such as McCarthy for Danks/Masset rather than always going for the big fish. As they say, hindsight is 20/20. Spending money in Latin America at that time would have been a waste. See Wilder, Dave. How KW got out of that unscathed is beyond me.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:34 PM) I'm glad a lot of people on this board despise KW. They may hate Ozzie but at least they hate KW as well. I wanted KW gone as well. I was extremely dissappointed when he said he and JR will discuss his status "in a couple of years".

I hope its Alomar Jr.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 06:16 PM) This is terrible news if true. It is true and it is terrible. He said in a couple years, and it did sound like he was planning on doing some form of rebuilding, he and JR will sit down and discuss his future.

KW just said on CSN he's on board "at least a couple more years". So he's going nowhere.

Oney saying he's thinking about bailing on the Twitter. 18 months too late.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 05:37 PM) JR? True that's his real boss, but I'm sure they have let him and Harold know what is going on, and I'm sure if they have been told the likelihood of who it will be.

Kurtjian was on the radio and said he talked to a Sox player who said the players talked more about Ozzie/KW than the game.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 04:16 PM) If I was Coop, I'd turn it down until I knew who my new boss would be. He probably has a pretty good idea.