Dick Allen

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 05:25 PM) More good, definitive news: Chris Rongey Kenny says that Buddy Bell is not in the mix for the manager position. The case for Alomar is looking stronger #whitesox 5 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Alomar has everything the Sox are probably looking for. They loved him as a future manager when he was on the team 3 or 4 times, so familiarity, he's well respected around the game and it would be his first managerial gig, so the price is right, plus not that it matters, I still think he has a place here.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 04:29 PM) That's a relief. Every other name I've heard mentioned so far, I'd be fine with. There's a long list of things that need to be fixed beyond the manager, and we at least need to get this move right. I think anyone other than Alomar Jr. would be an upset.

Ballantini or whatever his name is, the CSN White Sox insider said KW is not Ozzie's boss, something many have suspected. Is KW turning into the least powerful GM in baseball?

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) Cowley's got quotes... http://twitter.com/#!/cst_Cowley Ozzie should just start packing now. He's done wearing a Sox uniform in 48 hours. The best one: cst_Cowleycst_Cowley Oz on no deal, "Things will have to change. My wife will have to shop less, I will have to drink less, Oney will have to get a job ... "

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 06:49 PM) The one thing that never gives you real knowledge is the stat column or wins and losses. The stat column says that this offense has been below average, average, and terrible the last 3 years, especially when you consider that they're in a hitters park. What about the talent level? Does that play a role? The offense isn't very good this year, but there are 3 guys that didn't do the job. Next time you're at a game sit next to the dugout. When a White Sox strikes out by swinging at a pitch over his head or pops up just think about how a guy sitting in the dugout is the guy who is totally at fault. I'm extremely confident if the Sox don't change personnel on the field the results at the plate no matter who is coaching them next year will have a familiar look, if not worse.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) Good point. So we can dismiss what players say about the coaches, I'm all for that. You get your real knowledge from the opinions of talk radio hosts and call ins, and message board posts.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) Usually, yes it does. Bad attendance issues, poor performance, bad client relationships. We arent talking about a guy getting laid off by a company that is downsizing, we are talking about a coach that is not being retained. And as we already learned, KW did not want him, a few times. And Jerry flipped it on him Joe Torre was fired a couple of times and he's going into the HOF as a manager. He's only had one issue with Kenny and that was a few weeks ago. Kenny fired him just like Kenny fired Ozzie last year. He gets mad at a subordinate because he was called out for being unprofessional. He didn't "fire" him because he thinks he a bad hitting coach.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 06:31 PM) Where the hell was the hold? Completely impacted the wagering there. It does make you wonder.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 06:26 PM) I am curious DA, when Walker inevitably is let go this offseason, what are you going to attribute it to? You obviously do not feel his performance in his position is worth letting him go, so will it be due to outside pressure(ie. internet, fans, media)? And try to answer that question without bringing up another coach. Guys get replaced. I really don't think he wants to be here anymore. Plenty of people in baseball and all over life are "let go". It doesn't necessarily mean they are bad at their jobs. You probably know someone personally or even yourself who has been let go from a job. Does it mean they were among the worst employees at their company? If the Sox thought Walker was as bad as the average Soxtalk poster thinks, he would have not been brought back a long time ago.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 06:16 PM) This is extreme grasping for straws. Turner was awful. So is Martz, but he's a genius if he has good players. Turner wasn't bad with decent players either. 3 games into the season and the Bears playoff hopes are dwindling.

Ron Turner was clearly the problem with the Bears offense.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 04:32 PM) Then blame KW for that. Not Cooper. Cooper did his part. Just like with Thornton. Thornton to many now is overpaid. But that's based off of the pure domination that he was from '06 through last year. You keep referencing Gavin Floyd and his god-awful 4.50 ERA or whatever it is. What have the Phillies gotten from Freddy Garcia since the trade? What did Floyd provide for a more than reasonable cost from '08 through '10? Again, projects aren't the same. It's like going to Little Ceasers and expecting the same quality as you would from a much more mainstream establishment like Giordanos or even Pizza Hut. Don't ever blame Cooper for anything, and make sure Walker is blamed for everything with hitters. That must be part of the White Sox fan oath. I'm just saying look at them equally. I'm not calling for Cooper's head. All I'm saying is if it were a hitter and you would say the problem is Walker, you should then say the same about pitchers and Cooper.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) Again, the standard for reclamation projects vs big money FA signings or first-round draft picks are not the same. They're not meant to last. This is what me and Shack got into. Shack claimed that "they're are more ways to skin a cat" then to scout, draft and develop. And he's right. My beef is that if that's your only means of surviving, you're in trouble. Because that's a dangerous game to play long-term. That should be a supplemental way of staying afloat. Not the only way. This organization's biggest failure without question is the blatant inability to produce from within. Contreras was given a rather lucrative extension. He also struggled when he came over and struggled a bit at the beginning of 2005 enough that a lot of Soxtalk wanted him traded for AJ Burnett which would have been a disaster.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 04:09 PM) Mainly, IMO, because that's the only stretch he was healthy for. So how do you know Dunn is fully healthy?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) If he did, then he's nuts. He overthrew Williams. Knox would have had to be 20 yards down the field to catch that. Well he did make some slashing jester and then put up a 1 and a 3. It could mean anything.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 03:57 PM) Because Jose Contreras snapped off one of the best 25-30 game runs anyone has seen. I was Contreras' biggest backer on this board. You don't have to give me a history lesson, but if its all Cooper, what about all the other games Contreras pitched for the White Sox? Why weren't the magical musings of Don Cooper working then?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) DA, that's some borderline elrockin' s*** right there. I'm disappointed in you. You said he started 3 series so there is no way anything Greg Walker has done that could top that. His prized project was a bigger reason for the title and you know it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) I was thinkin' Damaso Marte. Funny thing is, DA, along with Shack, were probably the two biggest Jose supporters on the board while he was here. Now DA is doing everything in his power to discredit Contreras (to make Cooper look worse) and in turn build up the resume of his fake god Walker. I've never encountered a fan that wanted to be a martyr for a hitting coach. I'm not discrediting Contreras at all. What is funny is how trashed Jose Contreras was on this board for years, and now he's a feather in Don Cooper's cap.

When Cutler left the field after the last incompletion to Roy Williams, did he make a jester to get Williams out of the game, and then put up a 1 and a 3 for perhaps Johnny Knox?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) Sorry, dude. Contreras started game 1 of three consecutive playoff series after being banished by a club that had won a mega bidding war for his services (i.e. they gave up on him). That accomplishment >>>>>>>>> anything positive Walker has done. OK, we will forget the pair of first inning 3 run homers Konerko hit in the ALCS, to get the Sox going and his GS in game 2 of the WS. BTW,Contreras was the only losing pitcher for the Sox in the 2005 postseason.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) And what is the park adjustment factor for losing 20-30 hits per season in Oakland on foul balls and balls that don't carry over the fence in night games or in April/May/September in the Bay Area? I didn't realize that Dice-K was quite that good for one year...but that only supports the notion that Cooper did a superior job with Contreras because he didn't ever come close to that level of success with the Yankees. It's the same thing with those Cooper critics blaming him for Jake Peavy this season. If he was the same Peavy who had a devastating slider, 95 MPH fastball, pitched half his games in PETCO and against mostly lousy offenses in the NL West AND WAS 100% HEALTHY, then you would have the right to criticize Cooper for Jake's 2011 season. So, once again...if we do a poll question, will you have any doubt that more would agree that Cooper helped Jose significantly more in 2005 than Greg Walker helped Jermaine Dye? I agree with what the results would be but that's not based on reality. Contreras had a little success with the Yankees in 2003. In fact, one of his most impressive performances was against the Sox, and of the 4 organizations he has pitched for, his highest ERA is with the Sox. He wasn't so great with the Sox for a while and I believe, as do others, El Duque had a lot to do with his White Sox success, but as is par for the course, any pitcher with success is because of Don Cooper. Any pitcher who isn't successful with the Sox is because either they weren't good or ballpark factors. Any hitter who struggles with the Sox is because Greg Walker is an idiot. Any hitter who is successful with the Sox is because they are just a good hitter. Walker has zero to do with it. We will see if the same line of thinking sticks with the new hitting coach.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) 1) Ozzie's being brought to South Florida as much as a PR move...to be the new "face of the franchise" and help to sell tickets to the Hispanic population of South Florida...nobody would accuse the Yankees of hiring or wanting to hire Cooper having anything to do with selling tickets or bringing back to his roots, etc. 2) Jermaine Dye had a much longer track record of success with the Braves, Royals and A's. It's not inconsistent to say Cooper would get MORE credit for Dice K. Dice K hasn't even had one completely successful year with the Red Sox compared to expectations. In fact, no Japanese pitcher in history has had sustained success over more than a 2-3 year period as a starter. Hideo Nomo is the benchmark there. You will turn around and compare him to Contreras, but I'd still guess MORE fans of the Sox would give Cooper credit for turning around Jose than Greg Walker turning around Jermaine Dye in 2005. That's not to mention the fact that a pitching injury like Dice-K has/had is usually a career-killer, whereas NUMEROUS players (especially power hitters and not slappy speed guys have recovered from broken legs). Should we have a poll question about it? 3) Mazzone and Cox were also something of a package deal, like Guillen/Walker. I hardly doubt Mazzone at his age is hurting for money or desperate for a job. JD had a 100 pt higher OPS with the Sox than with OAK. Dice K was 18-3 with a 2.90 ERA in 2008. If that's not successful, then how many White Sox pitchers have been successful under Cooper? Mazzone's last job wasn't with Cox and according to the articles isn't exactly voluntarily retired.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) Is he actually looking for a job as a pitching coach? He was last winter http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/...pitching-coach/ And when he was fired http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3060643 If he's the reason guys shave 0.62 off their ERA its puzzling he's still looking for work. I think the study may be a little off.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) Mazzone agreed to join the Orioles staff because he and Sam Perlozzo were best friends. He obviously struggled to get the young Orioles arms to succeed in the vaunted AL East. That certainly doesn't diminish the staffs he presided over in Atlanta for so many years. As I said if you really want to be known as a great pitching coach, you are going to need great pitchers. Mazzone was as highly thought of as any coach in baseball. His last 14 years in Atlanta the Braves led the league in ERA 12 times. Even Don Cooper can't say that.Now he can't find a job. He wanted the Yankee job, but Rothschild was more impressive to the Yankees. Amazing how that works. You're a genius when you have Maddux and Glavine and Smoltz, but an idiot when you have Baltimore's staff. BTW, it didn't hurt the Orioles offered him a big bump in salary.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 09:54 AM) What were they at the time of the Jackson trade? I would guess they were somewhere between 4th and 6th. Why would you expect the pitching to do so much better than the hitters? Are you suddenly expecting the same results as the Padres, Mariners, Tigers and Giants get because of their pitch-friendly outfields? Your facile comparison of ERA isn't adjusting AT ALL for the park they play 81 of their home games in. Why were we 10th or 11th in the American League for most of this season in scoring runs, the number that is much more relevant than batting average (sorry Greg and Juan Pierre). Why don't we hit well in one of the easiest parks to hit a home run in? Why have we been far below average at home compared to the rest of the AL from 2009-2011? How many runs have been charged to the pitching staff that were plays which/could should have been made by Juan Pierre or Alex Rios but weren't ruled as errors? Are you taking that into account, as well? Rios and Pierre have been atrocious in the outfield for much of this season. Now what, you're going to argue they were first in the AL in offense after the first week of the season? Rudy Jaramillo is one example. And it's not like the Cubs' offense isn't better than ours. I'll just leave you with this. You said Walker should get no credit for Jermaine Dye because he was successful earlier. On another post you said if Dice K came to the Sox and was effective you would have to give Cooper credit. Dice K has had success before. How is that consistent?