Dick Allen

If the Sox were to trade Jenks, I doubt Thornton would be the closer. If they didn't acquire anyone, I think it would be Dotel. Don't laugh. For the majority of his outings in 2008 he was unhittable. For several he was meat. He hadn't pitched that much in several years. I think he'll be more consistent in 2009. With Poreda on the horizon and Contreras when and if he comes back moving to the bullpen, I think if KW can get a huge return, he would deal Jenks. There are too many things pointing against KW wanting to risk huge money on Jenks, who is suddenly going to start making money. Screw in the elbow, declining K rate, expanding waistline. While he still gets things done at a great clip, he seems to make it more interesting now. To get 3.5 years like he pitched out of a waiver claim and then turn that into a nice package before you really had to pay him anything isn't all bad. KW has done a good job getting rid of pitchers. The only one to really bite him in the ass was Foulke. Hawk always talks about how Ozzie might have had another WS title if Maggs and Frank stayed healthy in 2003. Ozzie may never have been the White Sox manager had Manuel had Foulke closing games instead of Koch for most of 2003

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) Dye being a future DH really doesn't hinder his value, seeing as he is only signed for one more year. He will make a very solid one year stop gap piece. There's also a mutual option for $11 million or $12 million I believe for 2010

If the Cubs get Peavy, Dempster will not be re-signed. I heard that yesterday.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 04:27 PM) Daniel Cabrera sucks. He has serious health concerns right now. If anything, he'd be a throw-in instead of the main piece of a trade. There's been a lot of talk the Orioles will non-tender him. He is junk that is maybe salvageable but certainly not worth giving up anything of even slight value . I like the comparison of him to MacDougal as a starter. KW has had an eye on him for years though.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 01:23 PM) How exactly are gold gloves awarded? Like the voting process, who actually votes? This has turned to the most overrated award in baseball. I think managers and coaches vote. Considering the flak fans get for their ASG selections, I don't think these guys have done any better with their GG voting over the years.

There is no way the Orioles would trade Roberts in a deal that is anchored by Javy Vazquez. The Orioles are a million miles away from being contenders. 2 years of Javy Vazquez won't do crap for them. Although, pitching for a bad team, Javy may thrive and become decent trade bait, but that's not worth the gamble of alienating the few die hards you have left and trading the face of the franchise for a journeyman pitcher. If Roberts doesn't sign, they'll either trade him for young players, or let him Robin Ventura it and walk when the contract expires.

QUOTE (TCQ @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 10:15 AM) Penny/Pavano might be a good idea but it has been said that penny is a bad work ethic guy, which is something we dont need. Anyone know if pavano is actually healthy? If he is, chances are it won't be for long. He's another guy it makes no sense to sign if there really is any risk taken by the team. If he's willing to work cheap with incentives, give him a shot, but no guarantees.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 10:13 AM) Are we willing to pay what Marquis got a couple of winters ago from the Cubs for Penny (3 years $21 million) or more? No way. If he would take an incentive laden deal one year deal, fine. Maybe with some kickers that guarantee 2010 if he reaches some performance standards, but the Dodgers could have exercised the option and traded him. Obviously, there wasn't much interest at $6.75 million (assuming the Dodgers would eat the $2 million they ate) for one year. Why stretch it to 3? He's fat, lazy and injured. Maybe he's got something to prove and works hard in 2009, I have no idea about his shoulder, but it would be a mistake going multiple years.

AL picks P Mike Mussina, C Joe Mauer, 1B Carlos Pena, 2B Dustin Pedroia, SS Michael Young 3B Adrian Beltre, OF Torii Hunter, OF Grady Sizemore and OF Ichiro Suzuki. Cabrera's calls to the press box didn't pay off, although Young is a horrible selection for a GG.

Penny's option was $8.75 million. Considering the buyout was $2 million, the Dodgers were only saving $6.75 million which would be a steal if he pitched anywhere near where he did before the shoulder problems. Considering the Dodgers have a better idea than any of us about his physical condition in the shoulder, the buy out tells me they must think his regaining his form is not very likely.

What was the deal with the woman who sang the National Anthem at the rally last night? Someone should have made her practice using the correct words.

Poreda has done pretty well but temper the expectations. He lasted 2/3 of an inning in the AFL last night giving up 5 runs.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 10:09 AM) Yeah, cause boy did he look good in September on into the playoffs. Wakefield makes $4 million a year. Last year he was 10-11 4.13 ERA. Its on par or better than what Javy does with a contender at 1/3 of the cost. The whole argument about Javy being so valuable is innings eating and strikeouts. Wakefield has eaten a lot of innings and he's $7.5 million cheaper. Strikeouts instead of pop outs or grounders isn't worth that much is especially for a starter, is it?

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) Evened out?? Shirley you must be joking. Vazquez had a grand total of 1 game where he gave up more than 4 runs and got the win. One game. All season. And he only had 3 wins all season in games where he gave up more than 3 runs. Meanwhile he got 5 losses and 3 no decisions in games where he gave up 3 runs or less. Not.even. Through 8/10/2006, Vazquez was 11-6 with a 5.13 ERA. The White Sox had scored 159 runs in his 21 starts. Pardon me while I don't shed a tear feeling sad that his record should have been much better than it was. Last year, he had 16 starts he gave up 4 or more runs. 12 starts he gave up 5 or more. In the 4 starts he gave up 4, only once did he pitch 7 innings. Cherry pick all you want, but his record is clear. He is a below .500 career pitcher with an ERA higher than his talent level. I think there are 11,500,000 ways to better spend the money paid for , in the end, very mediocre results.

He can throw and if he gets to a ball he will catch it. He's not what Hawk and DJ talk him up to be, but the worst is a huge stretch IMO, although it is over 3 seasons. I'd have to see the competition.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 08:51 PM) Simply.not.true. Go back and look at the game logs. In late 2006, Javy pitched EXTREMELY well. His late season losses had nothing to do with pitching poorly. The Sox simply could not score runs because several key hitters disappeared the last two months. Again... in 2008, Javy pitched extremely well in several games where he got losses or no decisions because of lack of offensive support. Want dates? - Toronto on May 5th - Angels on May 15th - Tampa on May 31st - Oakland on July 3rd - Texas on July 21st - Toronto on September 9th In his 3 regular season games against Tampa this year, he pitched well enough to win all of them. But in the 2 games he lost, the Sox scored a total of 3 runs. The two games he pitched against Toronto and lost... he pitched well enough to win both of those. But the Sox scored a TOTAL of 1 run in those two games. He beat the Twins in two of his 3 regular season starts against them. The game he won against Cleveland on September 3rd was HUGE, because they were hot and Javy kept us from getting swept. So... you have to look at what happened in the games rather than using W-L or what happened this September to put a label on his term with the Sox. His stretch run has been stated before. What about earlier in the year when he was getting lit up but getting wins? It all evened out. The overall body of work was 11-12 with a 4.84 ERA for a team that won 90 games. He wasn't good. Certainly not $11.5 million a year good.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 10:20 PM) Ok this pisses me off... are you guys serious? really? Wakefield doesnt hold a torch to Vazquez Sonnanstine only recently became reliable, but he did it for 1 year, 1 YEAR! He's just as likely to turn into Brian Bannister next year as he is to stay solid, but he's far from reliable Kyle Davies? WHAT!? Slowey is not Minnesota's 4th guy, he's their 3rd behind Liriano and Baker, I'd call Blackburn their 4th and Javier is surely more dependable than Blackburn, and more reliable because of health than Slowey Wellemeyer is terrible, absolutely terrible. he's only ok because dave duncan is a genius Joe Saunders is solid, i'll allow you to say he's CURRENTLY as good, but again he only did what he did for one year, so you cant call him dependable Kershaw, he's not Javier good... yet, but he should be Harden, yea when he's healthy he's a top 5 pitcher in baseball, but how often is he healthy and how much does he tax a staff with his absence People need to realize that $12 a year for what Javier does is absolutely fair market value. 100% fair market value. if you want an ace, go get sabathia at $20+ mil a year. Javier isnt an ace, and the reason people piss on him is because they think he should be. temper you expectations and you'll learn to love him because he does what he does every year, and every year he helps a staff stay fresh and keeps the team in more than enough games. i sure as hell hope we dont give Javier away for anything less than 2 very good ML ready piece (i.e. Daniel Murphy, Aaron Heilman esque). I am not ready to move on if we go into next year with anything less than a very dependable starter in the 4th slot, and none of you should be either. I would say yes, very serious. The White Sox have been good in 2 of Javy's 3 seasons and his results were: 2006 White Sox 4.84 11-12 2008 White Sox 4.67 12-16 Strikeouts are sexy, but ultimately winning is more important. Ozzie himself has said Javy hasn't shown he can win a big game, and when you are in contention, your 4th and 5th starter needs to win some big games.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 05:40 AM) I can't even believe this is a conversation now. There is NO WAY you trade this guy unless you want to have TWO DANNY WRIGHT 5th starter situations again like we did a few years ago. I don't like relying on Javy for any big games but he's not a bad #4 and certainly a decent (yet expensive #5). The good news is our 2 & 3 starters (if you want to make MB our #1) are both on the cheap right now... We're going to need to take a flyer with someone for the #5 spot until Jose is ready (and God only knows when that will be) so I feel much better having him there unless we can get someone who can give us 200 IP and 12-14 wins in that spot....which will be extremely difficult Danny Wright looked like Cy Young compared to Javy the last month of the season. I will agree that if KW wants to put together a bad team, it apparenty is a situation where Javy thrives, and he would be much more valuable in the trade market if he was held on to. If he plans on having a good team, Javy is a problem, and he has shown his 2 years with the White Sox when they were good and his year in NY.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 07:31 PM) I agree with Neyer. Javy is a guy who can get a team to the playoffs. He's not a salary dump. But he likely won't be on the sox next year. He can? He's been on 2 playoff teams in his career and they made the playoffs not because of him, but despite of him. And when he got into a playoff game, he was almost immediately lit up. He's going to have stretches every year when he is good. Maybe cherry-picking stats is a reason someone might actually agree to pay him the money despite the overall results on a career that is more than a few seasons old. I really worry about baseball if paying someone $11.5 million a year to be below .500 with an ERA higher than league average is considered reasonable. The White Sox owe a guy who hit .219 with a ton of strikeouts, who doesn't steal bases, and gets pinch run for, $24 million over the next 3 seasons. That too to many on this board is considered "reasonable." Seems to me, with these 2 non-performers, the White Sox are wasting $20 million a year. What you're paying for and what you are getting are very different. I don't think its reasonable.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) If Atlanta doesn't end up with Peavy, I could see them maybe making a run at Vaz as a backup option. Wow. That's a huge drop-off for consellation prize .

McCain's plane made an aborted landing in Colorado today. I was on a plane that made one of those before, you think your landing but there's traffic on the runway and you pull up again. Its pretty scary.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 03:12 PM) 1) Cheney did not expand the powers of the VP. It's up to the president how much influence a VP has. 2) Biden was a sucky VP pick too. I still don't see why Democrats think this guy is so great, it's obvious he's an incompetent idiot. Didn't Palin say she was looking to have the powers of the VP expand? Considering she thinks the VP is "in charge of the Senate" and I suppose that would mean if the GOP can win today she believes she would become Obama's and Biden's (if he wins re-election) boss, I wonder what kind of power she would be looking for.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 12:57 PM) She outdraws Biden and McCain at rallys, but it was a slap in the face to the American people? presidents pick vp's usually to offset somethig they are not good at or experienced at. Obama took Biden for his supposed 'gravitas' at whatever it is he is supposed to be good at. About the only thing he seems good at is inserting his foot into his mouth. McCain took palin because she is younger (to counter his claims of being too old to be in touch) and because she compliments his 'maverick' image. Nitpik all you want but she has taken on corruption in the party before, and that plays well with alot of people. So its a bad thing that Mccain took Palin because she was a woman? Give me a break. Was it a bad thing that Obama took Biden because he was white? There are several other black politicians he could have chose. or Hispanic. They each chose someone opposite of themselves. Mccain gets s*** on for his pick, while Obama is praised for his pick. All i am saying is that if palin is the tipping point in you voting against McCain, you were going to do that anyway and are just using her as an excuse. Why do you think she outdraws them at rallies? Do you really think its her politics? I think if Obama went across the aisle and picked her as his running mate, you would have a totally different opinion about her. Obama draws more than she does at rallies, and you don't have much nice to say about him.

Just got the election night ticket in my email.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 08:59 AM) What do you think the odds are that the waitlist fills for my Obama tickets today? I got the email confirmation before the waitlist began and I didn't get tickets. So I'm thinking slim.