Dick Allen

Poreda has done pretty well but temper the expectations. He lasted 2/3 of an inning in the AFL last night giving up 5 runs.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 10:09 AM) Yeah, cause boy did he look good in September on into the playoffs. Wakefield makes $4 million a year. Last year he was 10-11 4.13 ERA. Its on par or better than what Javy does with a contender at 1/3 of the cost. The whole argument about Javy being so valuable is innings eating and strikeouts. Wakefield has eaten a lot of innings and he's $7.5 million cheaper. Strikeouts instead of pop outs or grounders isn't worth that much is especially for a starter, is it?

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) Evened out?? Shirley you must be joking. Vazquez had a grand total of 1 game where he gave up more than 4 runs and got the win. One game. All season. And he only had 3 wins all season in games where he gave up more than 3 runs. Meanwhile he got 5 losses and 3 no decisions in games where he gave up 3 runs or less. Not.even. Through 8/10/2006, Vazquez was 11-6 with a 5.13 ERA. The White Sox had scored 159 runs in his 21 starts. Pardon me while I don't shed a tear feeling sad that his record should have been much better than it was. Last year, he had 16 starts he gave up 4 or more runs. 12 starts he gave up 5 or more. In the 4 starts he gave up 4, only once did he pitch 7 innings. Cherry pick all you want, but his record is clear. He is a below .500 career pitcher with an ERA higher than his talent level. I think there are 11,500,000 ways to better spend the money paid for , in the end, very mediocre results.

He can throw and if he gets to a ball he will catch it. He's not what Hawk and DJ talk him up to be, but the worst is a huge stretch IMO, although it is over 3 seasons. I'd have to see the competition.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 08:51 PM) Simply.not.true. Go back and look at the game logs. In late 2006, Javy pitched EXTREMELY well. His late season losses had nothing to do with pitching poorly. The Sox simply could not score runs because several key hitters disappeared the last two months. Again... in 2008, Javy pitched extremely well in several games where he got losses or no decisions because of lack of offensive support. Want dates? - Toronto on May 5th - Angels on May 15th - Tampa on May 31st - Oakland on July 3rd - Texas on July 21st - Toronto on September 9th In his 3 regular season games against Tampa this year, he pitched well enough to win all of them. But in the 2 games he lost, the Sox scored a total of 3 runs. The two games he pitched against Toronto and lost... he pitched well enough to win both of those. But the Sox scored a TOTAL of 1 run in those two games. He beat the Twins in two of his 3 regular season starts against them. The game he won against Cleveland on September 3rd was HUGE, because they were hot and Javy kept us from getting swept. So... you have to look at what happened in the games rather than using W-L or what happened this September to put a label on his term with the Sox. His stretch run has been stated before. What about earlier in the year when he was getting lit up but getting wins? It all evened out. The overall body of work was 11-12 with a 4.84 ERA for a team that won 90 games. He wasn't good. Certainly not $11.5 million a year good.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 10:20 PM) Ok this pisses me off... are you guys serious? really? Wakefield doesnt hold a torch to Vazquez Sonnanstine only recently became reliable, but he did it for 1 year, 1 YEAR! He's just as likely to turn into Brian Bannister next year as he is to stay solid, but he's far from reliable Kyle Davies? WHAT!? Slowey is not Minnesota's 4th guy, he's their 3rd behind Liriano and Baker, I'd call Blackburn their 4th and Javier is surely more dependable than Blackburn, and more reliable because of health than Slowey Wellemeyer is terrible, absolutely terrible. he's only ok because dave duncan is a genius Joe Saunders is solid, i'll allow you to say he's CURRENTLY as good, but again he only did what he did for one year, so you cant call him dependable Kershaw, he's not Javier good... yet, but he should be Harden, yea when he's healthy he's a top 5 pitcher in baseball, but how often is he healthy and how much does he tax a staff with his absence People need to realize that $12 a year for what Javier does is absolutely fair market value. 100% fair market value. if you want an ace, go get sabathia at $20+ mil a year. Javier isnt an ace, and the reason people piss on him is because they think he should be. temper you expectations and you'll learn to love him because he does what he does every year, and every year he helps a staff stay fresh and keeps the team in more than enough games. i sure as hell hope we dont give Javier away for anything less than 2 very good ML ready piece (i.e. Daniel Murphy, Aaron Heilman esque). I am not ready to move on if we go into next year with anything less than a very dependable starter in the 4th slot, and none of you should be either. I would say yes, very serious. The White Sox have been good in 2 of Javy's 3 seasons and his results were: 2006 White Sox 4.84 11-12 2008 White Sox 4.67 12-16 Strikeouts are sexy, but ultimately winning is more important. Ozzie himself has said Javy hasn't shown he can win a big game, and when you are in contention, your 4th and 5th starter needs to win some big games.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 05:40 AM) I can't even believe this is a conversation now. There is NO WAY you trade this guy unless you want to have TWO DANNY WRIGHT 5th starter situations again like we did a few years ago. I don't like relying on Javy for any big games but he's not a bad #4 and certainly a decent (yet expensive #5). The good news is our 2 & 3 starters (if you want to make MB our #1) are both on the cheap right now... We're going to need to take a flyer with someone for the #5 spot until Jose is ready (and God only knows when that will be) so I feel much better having him there unless we can get someone who can give us 200 IP and 12-14 wins in that spot....which will be extremely difficult Danny Wright looked like Cy Young compared to Javy the last month of the season. I will agree that if KW wants to put together a bad team, it apparenty is a situation where Javy thrives, and he would be much more valuable in the trade market if he was held on to. If he plans on having a good team, Javy is a problem, and he has shown his 2 years with the White Sox when they were good and his year in NY.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 07:31 PM) I agree with Neyer. Javy is a guy who can get a team to the playoffs. He's not a salary dump. But he likely won't be on the sox next year. He can? He's been on 2 playoff teams in his career and they made the playoffs not because of him, but despite of him. And when he got into a playoff game, he was almost immediately lit up. He's going to have stretches every year when he is good. Maybe cherry-picking stats is a reason someone might actually agree to pay him the money despite the overall results on a career that is more than a few seasons old. I really worry about baseball if paying someone $11.5 million a year to be below .500 with an ERA higher than league average is considered reasonable. The White Sox owe a guy who hit .219 with a ton of strikeouts, who doesn't steal bases, and gets pinch run for, $24 million over the next 3 seasons. That too to many on this board is considered "reasonable." Seems to me, with these 2 non-performers, the White Sox are wasting $20 million a year. What you're paying for and what you are getting are very different. I don't think its reasonable.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) If Atlanta doesn't end up with Peavy, I could see them maybe making a run at Vaz as a backup option. Wow. That's a huge drop-off for consellation prize .

McCain's plane made an aborted landing in Colorado today. I was on a plane that made one of those before, you think your landing but there's traffic on the runway and you pull up again. Its pretty scary.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 03:12 PM) 1) Cheney did not expand the powers of the VP. It's up to the president how much influence a VP has. 2) Biden was a sucky VP pick too. I still don't see why Democrats think this guy is so great, it's obvious he's an incompetent idiot. Didn't Palin say she was looking to have the powers of the VP expand? Considering she thinks the VP is "in charge of the Senate" and I suppose that would mean if the GOP can win today she believes she would become Obama's and Biden's (if he wins re-election) boss, I wonder what kind of power she would be looking for.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 12:57 PM) She outdraws Biden and McCain at rallys, but it was a slap in the face to the American people? presidents pick vp's usually to offset somethig they are not good at or experienced at. Obama took Biden for his supposed 'gravitas' at whatever it is he is supposed to be good at. About the only thing he seems good at is inserting his foot into his mouth. McCain took palin because she is younger (to counter his claims of being too old to be in touch) and because she compliments his 'maverick' image. Nitpik all you want but she has taken on corruption in the party before, and that plays well with alot of people. So its a bad thing that Mccain took Palin because she was a woman? Give me a break. Was it a bad thing that Obama took Biden because he was white? There are several other black politicians he could have chose. or Hispanic. They each chose someone opposite of themselves. Mccain gets s*** on for his pick, while Obama is praised for his pick. All i am saying is that if palin is the tipping point in you voting against McCain, you were going to do that anyway and are just using her as an excuse. Why do you think she outdraws them at rallies? Do you really think its her politics? I think if Obama went across the aisle and picked her as his running mate, you would have a totally different opinion about her. Obama draws more than she does at rallies, and you don't have much nice to say about him.

Just got the election night ticket in my email.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 08:59 AM) What do you think the odds are that the waitlist fills for my Obama tickets today? I got the email confirmation before the waitlist began and I didn't get tickets. So I'm thinking slim.

I don't like Javy, never did, but I wouldn't trade him for Rolen. While at one time he was quite a player, he makes too much cash, plays too infrequently and doesn't play anywhere near the level he once played. It would be like signing Joe Crede but doubling his salary.

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 03:40 PM) I can still see Chambliss bulling his way thru the crowd on the field after a playoff walk off homer. He is managerial insurance with a winning backround and Gary Ward waiting in the wings to be hitting coach again. A player revolt is what caused Ward to get canned in the first place. He won't be the hitting coach for the White Sox again, even if the team is hitting .220 in June. Chambliss on the other hand............................but these are Buddy Bell hires, and he really isn't hiring for potential replacements for the big league team.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 04:31 PM) Why should she have to though? What if she has herpes or something? Should she have to reveal that to everybody? I know it sounds like I'm being facetious but I'm not. While I agree most times medical records should be private, she is the one running for office and could be in a position to have the most powerful job in the world. Voters should know the medical histories of all candidates, just like baseball teams should put players through physicals when signing them or trading for them. If there is something seriously wrong with them, or a possibility of serious issues that could either prevent them from being able to serve or affect their ability to do the job, voters should know. If they have herpes, while it may show a lack of judgement at one time and maybe not, it probably isn't something that everyone needs to know.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 06:58 AM) You know, I understand that Chicago people dont like Rex for his inconsistency and his maddening swings between really good and really, really bad. But the manufactured anger towards bullsh*t stuff just doesnt make sense. Some douchebag called into the score this morning and took personal offense towards Rex' spike after the sneak-in touchdown because he said it was towards Chicago fans, and fans started calling in agreeing with him about it. Are you kidding me? What the hell is wrong with people, let the guy live a little after scoring a touchdown. Obviously, Rex is very inconsistent and probably will never be a Pro Bowl QB. But I agree with you. Face it, the guy was the QB when the Bears made it to the Super Bowl, and has probably received as much crap from Bears fans as any player in history. Even if his spike was directed at some of the naysayers, which I doubt, good for him.

John McCain's healthcare plan will "blow up" the employer-based system and healthcare experts are not so hot on that idea. Experts, however, fear that eliminating the tax advantage of employer-based coverage would prompt younger, healthier workers to leave their office plans. If that happened, costs for the remaining workers could skyrocket. Companies may drop coverage altogether. But the McCain campaign fought back that idea with an even stranger defense: Younger, healthier workers likely wouldn't abandon their company-sponsored plans, said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain's senior economic policy adviser. "Why would they leave?" said Holtz-Eakin. "What they are getting from their employer is way better than what they could get with the credit."

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Nov 1, 2008 -> 09:32 PM) Find where Ive defended McCain for me please I'm sure if people defend him, you would have zero objection. Very different from defending Obama.

The question I have is what type of responsibility is Obama supposed to take for his aunt? An aunt who is a half sister of his father who has been dead for 26 years, and a guy Barack saw once the last 17 years he was alive. For all we know, he may not have even spoken to her since he met her 37 years ago. Should I be held accountable for my aunt's actions? Should you?

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Nov 1, 2008 -> 09:00 PM) I think its message board worthy and I also think its a bigger deal than a lot of the bs posted about McCain. The thing that bothers me about it is how blindly some people will defend this stuff and then go and post garbage about McCain. So, its right to post garbage about Obama, but defend any criticism of McCain. Its just wrong if its the other way around.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Nov 1, 2008 -> 07:39 PM) The s was a typo I couldnt change because it was a thread title, but Im getting the responses I expected. Im sure if it was McCains family it would be a huge deal. I know its not as big as a private jewish groups opinion on Obama but that seemed to really ruffle some feathers. Really? Where's the individual thread that has to be made about McCain's brother's 911 call? Is the s really a typo? You know he was supposedly paling around with terrorists. The republicans had another guy with Ayers that supposedly tudored Obama, but when they found out the guy died when Obama was 10 and even the Ayers stuff wasn't doing what they hoped, they backed off a bit. Its just campaign talk is what McCains said.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Nov 1, 2008 -> 04:51 PM) Do you think other GM's don't know you are looking for a 3B? Kenny makes a couple of calls asking about 3B's and every GM knows it. This has nothing to do with leverage or trying to smokescreen the other GM's. It's all about saving face if nothing comes through. And that is not a criticism of KW as all GM's have to do that. KW probably wants other GMs to at least entertain the thought that while he may be looking for a 3B, he's more than willing just to let Fields have the job. It could lower an asking price if they don't believe he's totally desperate. Its a poker game.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Nov 1, 2008 -> 05:11 PM) So, Obamas aunt has been living illegally here for 5 years in government assisted public housing. She has also donated money to his campaign, and for those who dont know, arent allowed to accept donations from non citizens. Obama wrote about her in his book and now claims he had no idea this was going on. I'm sure Obama and McCain both know every single name on their donation list. It was $265. It will be returned. He wrote about meeting her in 1971. 37 years ago. He was 10. Considering he never saw his father again, he may never have seen her. But don't let facts and common sense get in the way for some last ditched effort BS. Also your thread title says family members, who are the additional people?