Dick Allen

From Gammons: • From another scout on the White Sox: "They're a much more energetic team than they were. Orlando Cabrera brings a lot of energy, so does Nick Swisher, and the Cuban second baseman, Alexei Ramirez, is the damndest player in Arizona. His energy is incredible. He's a wild man, all over the field, swings at everything, but he could be pretty good and a lot of fun to watch. John Danks has thrown the ball well, but they still have to decide whether or not to trade Joe Crede or Paul Konkerko. They have time for that."

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 17, 2008 -> 05:01 PM) So Colon got rocked today but he definitely had some zip on his fastball. He'll be interesting to keep an eye on. He got crushed, but struck out 2 in 2/3 of an inning, touching 96. I heard he will start the season in the minors and can become a free agent if he's not recalled by May 2.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 17, 2008 -> 03:29 PM) From the Sun-Times: [/b] I know, I know -- "Spring Training ERAs don't mean anything!" but... He's talking about how he has his mechanics figured out, and Hawk was talking about what happens when his mechanics get out of whack and they were out of whack yesterday according to Hawk.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 06:29 PM) Considering Konerko hit 40 in 2004, I don't think it was that shocking that he hit 40 in 05 also. The one thing that might be different with Crede and all of the other examples you cite is that Scott Boras was involved in none of them. No, my point was since the White Sox let him become a free agent and he did hit 40 homers and had a big year, not many people would have thought there was any chance of him being back, and most likely if the Sox didn't win the title, he would not have been back. A lot of players have been getting rid of Boras lately, and Joe may step in like ARod and take over at some point. Its a risk, especially considering the SS is also a FA to be, but might be worth it. It only will be if the rotation is at least half as good as KW has it cracked up to be. If pitching won't be a problem, like he said several months ago, and he's right, acquiring Roberts without cutting into the line-up makes this team a lot better.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 06:20 PM) Hearing about Colon's velocity, I too am annoyed that the Sox didn't end up signing him on a minor league deal. Worst situation is that Danks starts the season off in AAA. If Floyd doesn't start well, he could be released, and then you call up Danks, if Colon has shown that he can pitch ok. Uribe wasn't very good defensively last season. RZR of below .900, and Orlando Cabrera had something around .975 IIRC. Quite a difference. Just showed how lazy Juan was last season I guess. Richar he is beating out because Richar hasn't been healthy with his back and the visa issues, while Ramirez was always going to start in AAA because of his rustiness defensively. Just seems like Uribe may win 2nd base by default. He's hitting .333 this spring, and he has a slight different approach. As far as Colon, they made him an offer, I just wonder what it was because Boston's offer seemed more than reasonable. If he can't get the job done, he's not going to make much and if he makes 30 starts he gets $7 million, which is $5 million less than Garland. If he's healthy enough to make 30 starts, his numbers should be equal to or better than Garland's.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 06:17 PM) Well there's really not much point of trading Fields unless you could re-sign Crede to a long - term deal (and that itself would be very risky). And Joe and Bora$$ have shown that they won't be doing that. Stranger things have happened. Who would have thought Buerhle and Dye would be back? Who would have thought in April 2005 if told Konerko would have a big year and hit 40 homers that he would be back? I think its something you can worry about later. If Floyd and Danks and Contreras and the bullpen are as good as KW is advertising, this would be a move to make the White Sox a world champion.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 06:09 PM) Well there have been a lot of bad starters on world championship teams before. Just look at Julio Lugo from last season. Hitting for power is Uribe's only asset at the plate. He's certainly not good at making contact and not striking out. He'll be one of the worst 2nd baseman offensively if he starts this season IMHO. His numbers have been decreasing steadily since 2004. I'd say Floyd has earned a chance based on his last 6 starts, considering that the Sox didn't go out and sign a Kyle Lohse type of starter for $7-8M. You could argue he's got more of a right than Danks to pitch in the rotation based on how both guys ending up pitching at the end of the season. And you're right you shouldn't just look at numbers in September, way too small of a sample size to use, but at least you want a guy to finish off the season strong, and that's what Floyd did. It is shocking to me that Danks and Floyd were handed 2 spots in the rotation. I thought for sure they would sign a Colon or Benson or someone, not that they are a lock to be any better but to provide some competition. Back to Uribe, he's been a very good defensive player as well most of his White Sox career, and if he starts he had to beat out Richar and Ramirez.

I'd be shocked if the Sox could get Roberts for guys with potential but pretty weak major league stats. Roberts is one of the few reasons fans will go watch the Orioles now, and they aren't going to be very good for a while. Trade him for Anderson, Richar, Uribe and whatever, Oriole fans aren't going to be happy even if it probably in the long run is a decent deal for the Orioles. I think if the Sox want Roberts they would have to include Fields in a package, which I wouldn't oppose.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 05:28 PM) I love the amazing irony in the fact that you think Floyd sucks and use stats to bone up your argument. Yet according to you the tub of goo that plays 2nd is a talented guy, who is just motivation and heart away from a 30 homer season. And you think that guy will shine this year, not based on declining peripherals and stats but on the fact that he is a FA after this year. Floyd may suck, in fact any of the young players may suck. But at this point, we need to see what we have. I would rather give these kids the benefit of the doubt and to give them an honest opportunity. If they suck or dont work out, they are cheap enough to get rid of. I mean you preach the patience of sticking with an overpaid overweight not so good 2nd baseman that we had to trade our best chip to get his replacement. And for those quoting Keith Law, this is the same Keith Law who stated the Fields needs to work on hitting the curveball because he can hit the fastball already. That doesnt pass the smell test as Fields can hit the breaking pitch, but had problems with fastballs above the belt. He watched one game, and wrote an article based on that. I like the fact that we are going into this season with Floyd and Danks. I only hope we can see Ramirez at 2nd soon, and some of the other younger players. Juan Uribe was the starting SS for a world championship team. He has had some success in the majors and is among the leaders in homers and rbi at that position in all of baseball since 2005. All the other numbers suck, I'll give you that, and they might suck again this year. All of Gavin Floyd's numbers suck, but he is gushed at so much it makes me sick. Listening when KW and Hawk and DJ were talking yesterday, you would be amazed if anyone were to ever reach base against him . I've never posted Uribe would have a 30 homer season, I've just said he's capable. Giving Floyd a rotation spot based on his September is foolish. They have mentioned his 2 gems against Detroit last year, emphasizing Detroit's "tough" line-up. When Floyd faced Detroit's full line-up he got lit up. When he was basically facing a split squad line-up he shut them down. There is really no back-up plan. At least Uribe has to earn his role.

BTW, they have the biggest hot dogs at TEP.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 04:14 PM) Anyone who writes him off after today is an idiot. He looked brutal today. End of story. I don't think anyone is writing off Floyd because of this outing. I think people who have written him off, like myself, wrote him off long ago, and today is just some icing on the cake, sort of like your post after Jerry Owens dropped a flyball.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 04:35 PM) Danny Wrong: 14-12 with a 5.18 ERA in 2002 John Snyder was 9-12 with a 6.68 ERA in 1999. I think he started out 7-0.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 04:31 PM) Jeremy Bonderman lost 20 games his first season Greg Maddux lost 14 games and posted a 5.61 ERA in his first full season (this was in the mid 80's, so it isn't ridiculous to say if you had that Maddux pitching in this era that you would have had him post something similar to Floyd) Robin Ventura was absolutely brutal to start his major league career Point being, most young baseball players don't experience immediate success. They go through the motions, make adjustments, and the good ones pull out and become something, the bad ones falter. Gavin Floyd has overcame his piss poor showing in Philly and came to Chicago and instead of wallowing around, he got himself back in track and earned a lot of respect based on the way he took the ball every time out down in Charlotte and had a positive attitude and eventually impressed Ozzie/Kenny/Cooper late in the season in Chicago and has came in this spring and continued to impress (sans today start). Bottom line, the history of baseball shows that most young players fail or at least struggle at some point very early in there career before coming through. Floyd clearly has tools, find me a scout that doesn't believe that and I'd be shocked (now i could see a scout saying he's a risk or that he isn't the lock he once was, but I don't think you'd see a scout, who based on stuff alone, didn't think Floyd was worthy of being a major league starter). Whether it pans out or not, I don't know, but he's going to get his chance to open the season and show what he can do. If he sucks, the Sox will call someone else up or go with Masset or trade for someone. They probably will be in a tough spot when it comes to competing if a few of the starters fail, but we all know that the pitchers will have to pitch and Danks/Floyd will have to grow up in a hurry if the club plans on beating Detroit & Cleveland and winning this division. You can't compare Floyd to those guys. He's spent parts of 4 seasons in the majors, and his best success was when he came up in 2004. I read a scouting report when he was drafted. He threw 95 in high school with a wicked curve. One scouting report said he was major league rotation-ready. He doesn't throw 95 anymore, and if Keith Law is to be believed, his curveball isn't so wicked anymore.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 04:23 PM) Bottom line is he's the Sox starter, whether you like it or not. I think its pretty petty for people to rip him on one start in spring training as opposed to seeing what he does at the major league level. Plus, if any of you had a clue, you'd realize that pitchers tend to go through a dead arm period during spring and this isn't some typical Hawk BS that he will ocassionally spew to make excuses (I've heard it countlessly from analysts and current/former pitchers over and over and that includes Steve Stone who isn't the type of guy that makes excuses). Yes, Floyd had some bad starts last year, but he also had some good starts against the Tigers and like it or not is the starter. b****ing and moaning isn't going to change it and making stupid comments after he's had multiple starts this spring where he's thrown consistently above 90MPH (well at least based upon what I've read and your right, maybe there is some major conspiracy by the Tribune/Southtown and every highlight I've seen this spring which has shown him at times throwing over 90). Oh and Ozzie has always been the type of manager that kisses a players ass and follows the company line, oh wait, last I remember he has at many times ripped the s*** out of guys (including Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens at times last year who he called too scared to play in the majors). I'm honestly sick and tired of the negative nancy bulls*** and when the season starts I'm just going to start one massive thread to keep stupid whining to (cause I know at times we all need to whine and b**** and get crap out cause all of us are very passionate about this squad). Its one thing when we want to discuss a players skillset and make projections, but its another when I have to see a new thread every time someone has one bad day (especially in the case of guys like Konerko/Dye, etc who have proven themselves to be pretty freaking good players throughout there career). There's a lot of people who thought Gavin Floyd sucked long before spring training and this one particular outing. Maybe he does have a dead arm, but he pitched 7 innings up until today and gave up more runs than strikeouts. For a guy who supposedly looks so great, and has top-of-the rotation stuff, its not so impressive.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 16, 2008 -> 04:18 PM) And a few bad outings, especially if it's in Spring Training, does not make you suck. How about a career 6.30 ERA with 37 homers allowed in 178 innings?

Carlos Zambrano in the Suntimes: ''I told my family and my friends that before my career ends, I want to play for the White Sox. Right now, my priority is helping this club. That's what I am trying to do. But I used to be, when I was growing up, I was a White Sox fan. But every time I say that, the Chicago Cubs fans get jealous and pissed off.''

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Mar 15, 2008 -> 04:36 PM) I think the expectations are based on the fact that things could not possibly be as bad as last year. I expect them to be better too, but to say last year's team was better than 2006's and 2006's was better than 2005's is inexplicable.

He's hitting the buffet before Uribe and Jenks arrive.

So Hawk said KW has put together a better team than the year before in each year he's been GM. I love Hawk, but has he paid attention the last year and a half?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 15, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) Oh, Kenny. We have depth at every position? How about quality depth? It's fun listening to him talk, honestly -- but that stood out to me as a you can't be serious moment. I do give him some credit for saying he was saying some of the same things last year and was wrong.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Mar 15, 2008 -> 03:32 PM) Hawk "Brian Anderson having a great spring." Ozzie "Ya, it's about time." I guess Ozzie missed the .308 he hit last spring.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Mar 14, 2008 -> 05:42 PM) count knocked around, Thornton dinged up, lineup anemic. not good, sox fans, not good. Contreras' spring ERA is now the same as Floyd's and 0.25 higher than Vazquez who was going to be the opening day starter. I think its way too early to panic about him.

Now 670 is reporting Buerhle is back to pitching opening day.

There's more to this than what they are letting on. His arm was sore earlier. At the end of the season last year, they were easy with him even skipping a start. How exactly is skipping one spring training outing of 4 or 5 innings going to preserve him for the season?

I'm shocked Joey didn't say they would suck. We heard that Erstad was bringing the same thing. I just hope this year they are correct.