Dick Allen

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) Meh, he hasnt exactly sucked. .279 .392 .889 10 bombs. He has also been raking in May. Personally, I think Fields is going to be a strikeout machine, but I think the Sox should see what they have with him pretty soon if they aren't going to trade him. You might as well do it now. Its not like they'll be losing much, Crede has been awful.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) Now I'm actually kinda worried that this trade might happen. Sounds like the organization is pissed that Dye said baseball is a business, and if he gets traded, he'll go play hard somewhere else. Only in this organization can someone say the politically correct thing....and get in hot water for it. The very same organization that said he owed it to his family to test the market. If KW is willing to do this deal, make the Sox even weaker against LHP and pay Abreu $16 million next season, he would be a dope. I'm not a KW guy, but I cannot see him doing anything this ridiculous.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) Actually if Jose Mesa gets one more out, Thome would have a ring already. The Tigers just released him.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 02:33 PM) 1983? yes

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) What would lead anyone to believe that adding one player to this team is going to turn this season around ? We probably need to add 2 more excellent relievers and atleast 2 more solid bats. Should the Sox bother or just rebuild toward next year ? Adding the right player could spark the offense. Remember what Julio Cruz did for the 2003 team. I'm afraid its going to take a lot to fix the bullpen fully, but if the starters can continue to take the games into the 7th and 8th and Jenks has the 9th, they still have Thornton, the Sox need a couple of guys to be average, and it should be at least competent. Cleveland's bullpen blows and Detroit is banged up a little. Maybe they'll fade a little bit.

Can't complain. The Sox would not have won the WS if Maggs was still on the team in 2005, and probably not with CLee either. They were able to sign some guys with the money trading him freed up. They can hit. Too bad the Sox can't produce any more of them.

QUOTE(briguy27 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) can somebody give me prinz and bukovich stats? and does anybody know what pitches they have and how hard they throw? and are they both righties? These pitchers are basically crap. They should do better than Aaardsma and MaaacDougal have done, but worse than what you would have thought would have been average for them.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:55 AM) From watching him start. I think he will do well in the bigs as a starter. He started 1 game and it was about 45 degrees with the wind blowing in 25 mph. The way the Urinal is set up, that was about as cold of wind as I have felt in a park. He did look good though. I just don't know how you can come to the conclusion he'll be a good starter from that. I don't know how you can say a guy is going to be good pitching 6 innings, but will really suck when you ask him to pitch 1 or 2 especially when Masset now has a history of relieving with the Rangers and the Mexican league or wherever he was dominating this winter. I wonder if the winter work is the reason his velocity is down or if it is just the curse of the lost velocity God that seems to infect almost every pitcher when he puts on a White Sox uniform.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) With the Rocket not pitching it will give the ESPN announcers more opportunity to talk about how bad both the Sox and Yankees have been this year. Maybe their great insight will tell us something... I wonder if Rick Sutcliffe will be doing the game. He usually starts his next sentence when he's speaking about halfway through the last word of the previous sentence.

I have no idea why you would want to pay a guy $16 million next year who current is hitting .240 with 2 homers. If they did a Dye/Abreu trade KW would need to be committed.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 11:03 PM) I wasn't claiming you personally praised Shapiro for the bullpen he assembled. I'm pointing out to you that Cleveland's bullpen sucks at the moment, and they have historically sucked, and yet, the Indians are in first place and I doubt there are too many people calling for his head on the Indians' boards. On some level the players have to produce, and ours aren't. And when they don't, the best answer isn't simply to criticize the GM or expect him to be fired. When you have had the lead in games as much as the White Sox have, and the bullpen gives them away, the lack of improvement from a weakness the previous season becomes even more magnified. The team may not be hitting, but there are so many games lost where if the bullpen was half as good as what the GM said, the Sox would have won. Shapiro I am sure understood his bullpen was a weakness. KW was preaching his was a strength. Its a big difference. If he really expected this particular group to be lights out, his judgement has to be questioned. Of course we don't know if he really truely believed that.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) I suppose we should have signed Joe Borowski and Roberto Hernandez instead. And yet, with the Indians terrible bullpen, they are a first place ballclub. I find it extremely ludicrous to crucify KW about the way this team is performing but praise the job Shapiro has done in Cleveland, considering your barometer is bullpen assemblage. Do a search and see if you can find me praising Shapiro about his bullpen. He doesn't have $100 million to spend on the roster though. The funny thing is the board was laughing about the Indians bullpen while posting how dominant the White Sox is, what are their stats? It appears you are one of those guys who thinks KW can do no wrong. That's fine. I disagree with you, and think winning the title has gone to his head.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:42 PM) I'm not buying this bs that Aardsma can't handle pressure. The guy was a top closer in college. He looked awfully good at the beginning of this year in quite a few pressure situations. He obviously is experiencing difficulties right now, but I'm not giving up on the guy yet. Sisco was an obvious project and we all damned well knew that coming in. Macdougal is a complete mystery. Massett has performed extremely inconsistently- but that's what young kids do when they come up- they are inconsistent. Our bullpen problems are being exacerbated right now because the offense isn't performing. Look at Cleveland's bullpen- they have the same number of bullpen guys as us worth a damn- two. But their offense is clicking on all cylinders and so it isn't as big of a deal as ours is at the moment. The difference between things going right personnel-wise and going wrong is incredibly more slight than one would think. That difference is exaggerated exponentially when your personnel isn't performing. That's not Kenny's fault. That the fault of the players. That's 3 guys in the bullpen that you just said we all could of and should have anticipated having problems. And another who has had control and injury problems in the past. That's fine for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays or the KC Royals, but its not a good thing if you are in the business of trying to win a championship. You don't have to buy Aaardsma not being able to handle pressure, but his pitching coach is questioning it. There are a lot of guys who were great in college but were awful professionals, even in lower levels.

I wouldn't call Gio up to be in the bullpen. Call him up in September and let him start a few games that don't matter to let him get his feet wet. You put him in the bullpen now and you will be seeing a lot of walks.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) I agree. You can fault WIlliams for the current outcome, but the way he assembled the bullpen was defensible. The back-end of Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal should have been pretty good. The key really is MacDougal, who if he was performing like he did in 2005 and 2006 (3.30 ERA those 2 years) would be a very good setup man. It's hard to claim Kenny should have foreseen him pitching far worse than he ever has before in the bigs. Williams gambled on Aardsma, Sisco, and Masset and lost on all of them. Its not far worse. He's been awful with KC before and he's always a good bet to wind up on the DL. Thornton was a bust until last season. He wasn't going to make Seattle's roster in 2006. If you go with the theory that relievers are good then bad, how can you rely on him in 2007?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) The problem is what constitutes a "strong" bullpen changes from year to year. Ask the Cubs about that one. You can try and sign some of the few guys that have been able to remain effective out of the bullpen on a somewhat consistent basis. But those guys are few and far between and they often end up closing somewhere which makes them even more ridiculously expensive. This really isn't as simple as people try to make it sound. Actually, I really don't think its that hard, especially with a rotation that is pretty much guaranteed to give you at least 6 innings every night, and a closer who isn't going to be expensive for a few years. Last year he thought he was so smart he signed every 6 year minor league free agent and had them fight for a spot in the defending champions bullpen and they all showed why they were 6 year free agents. This year he looked a radar guns and came to the conclusion that his new bullpen although vastly inexperience, especially in any game of importance, was one of the tops in the league before spring training even started. That by getting a guy with a 7.00 ERA with the Royals and a guy with a 4.00 ERA from the Cubs who both have had a lot of problems with strikes and one a lot of problems keeping the ball in the park. Even Cooper has come to the conclusion Aardsma can't handle pressure. The guy mustn't be too good if he's already been part of a package for a washed up LaTroy Hawkins and part of a package for Neal Cotts, a guy who couldn't get anyone out the last part of last season. The Angels bullpen was vastly superior to the White Sox and they spent money improving it. KW is so impressed with himself he thinks he can judge future performance based on Arizona fall league and a couple of tapes.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) If the Sox put MacDougal on waivers, he'll get claimed in a second. He has a reasonable contract, and teams will think they can fix his mechanics. Good, because obviously Cooper can't. Why pay him for 3 years when he can't throw a strike? BTW, in 2005 KW paid Luis Vicaino and Dustin Hermanson about the same amount he's paying the entire bullpen in 2007. That's before the days of a $100 million payroll. A sea of empty green seats around August may finally get the message through his thick skull that he needs a strong bullpen to win, and picking up Royals and Cubs rejects probably won't get that done.

QUOTE(Jim Spencer @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:37 AM) If it does not rain tomorrow, I'm headed down I65 to Indy to see The Knights play the Indians. Section 117 Row C just to the right of The Knights dugout. Is there anything anybody wants me to ask BA Ask him if he has any room for Aardsma and MacDougal in his apartment.

QUOTE(zenryan @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) I'm blaming 2005. If the sox didnt win the WS then we would be so upset with these losers. If they didn't win in 2005, Ozzie and KW would probably be doing something else.

Space to work DJ? They pissed away a 3 run lead.

Andy Gonzalez has been a good call-up. He's really contributed a lot.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 03:13 PM) it's still ozzies fault, duh. everything is I'm blaming Brian Anderson.

Cintron has been better as of late.

Please bring in a pinch runner

We need a runner