Dick Allen

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 11:19 PM) Underachieved. ARow; already mentionned. Uribe; already mentionned. Man we were spoiled with his first 2 months last season. Crede: this dude should be hitting with a higher average. When he gets going, he can hit .350 for a month. If he could just hit .250 when he gets cold, instead of 1 for 20, he'd be hitting nearly .300 on the year. Everett; was fine until this last month or so where his average has plummetted. And aside from ARow, the person who has most disappointed me with the bat is: AJ Pierzynski. I would rather have the .300 hitter version of AJ with 10 home runs than the .255 version of AJ with 19 home runs. Man, what happened to that obnoxious guy from Minnesota who just piled up the hits? These guys may have underachieved according to Sox fans and Sox management's projections, but you really can't say they underachieved when looking at their entire careers. Rowand had a big offensive season last year. For whatever reason he is hitting like the Aaron Rowand before 2004. Uribe is having a career average year. He had a big offensive season last year, but career wise he is exactly where you could expect him. Crede is having a typical Joe Crede season. He may have ability to be greater, but expecting and counting on that would probably make a baseball executive a former baseball executive. AJ is down on average, but the homers up. Everett is really about where you could expect him, except he may actually have more homers than you could have thought using his career numbers, age, injuries etc. Like I mentioned before, I really don't think there is anyone offensively who you could say is playing anything but a hair below what you could expect, as there is no one really having a career-type year. Fathom pointed out the pitching with about 5 or 6 guys maybe overachieving, and I couldn't agree with him more. Its the difference between this White Sox team and the others the past several seasons. Put the pitching performance of 2001-2004 with the Sox 2005 line-up and you have a team battling Detroit for 3rd in the AL Central.

QUOTE(Rally Crede!! @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 09:59 PM) Hriniak got through to 2 of our players in the mid 90s, and the rest of the lineup didn't ever seem to clinch on to his teachings. Its that way with any hitting coach. As a MLB hitter, you aren't going to easily change your swing mechanics after years of self-training. I do think way too much blame gets put at the feet of the hitting coaches. Moreso, I just want Walk to get the right gameplan to our hitters with respect to the pitcher they are facing THAT NIGHT. That's the thing. I really have no feeling on Walker one way or the other either. But it would be nice if they took a different approach at Santana tomorrow night. Taking all his fastballs and swinging aimlessly at his change gets you shutout, and possibly no hit.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 09:48 PM) Well you are right, you can only blame the coaches for so much but when Uribe has to go outside of the team for Hriniak to improve his swing, isn't that saying something? Frank went to Hriniak a few years ago as well. To add more to the irony, Hriniak was fired by the White Sox. Obviously different coaches get through to different players, especially hitting coaches. There may be no reason for it. The thing that looks bad with this particular case is Uribe was pretty much struggling for most of the season, spends a couple hours with Hriniak and suddenly he starts looking more and more like Tejada.

QUOTE(Rally Crede!! @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 09:43 PM) Funny how that works sometimes huh. I hate putting all teh blame on a coach, think its teh easy way out. But seriously, would it have taken THAT much effort as teh hitting instructor to let these guys know Elarton is an 86-89 MPH fastbal lguy who leaves it up ALOT...look for it. You make Elarton get the ball down and its batting practice. The Sox were swinging at fastballs up all night and popping up. I haven't seen so many pop ups since the 2000 playoffs.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) I'll tell you who I've seen enough of and who surely will be back -- Everett. I'm not blaming him for the collapse, I've just seen enough of him. Give me Carlos Lee! Do not give me Carl Everett. Sox #3 hitter .249 23 homers Indians #9 hitter .243 23 homers You are right about Everett, although he was pretty good the first 2 months filling in for Thomas. Imagine if the Sox had a guy like Hafner hitting 3rd. It is imperative KW finds offense, big offense this winter.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 09:29 PM) Every manager makes mistakes, but I would venture to say he has one heck of a lot more game knowledge than anybody on this board ... me, you, whomever. Anyone who thinks otherwise overestimates themselves. Luck has nothing to do with this. I would suggest many of these players have been underachieving all year, not overachieving. Pick out just about any player and for long stretches this year they have underachieved. This is not all about the last 7 weeks, but their underachieving has been magnified because Cleveland is playing so well. Remember, there were also people dismissing Cleveland thru much of this year, saying many in their offense had career years last year, and their pitching wouldn't hold up. I was not one who ever doubted their offense could and would perform as they are, and the difference is not hitting coaches but better hitters. Cleveland took off hitting when they sacked Eddie Murray, who probably has more hitting knowledge than 99% of the people playing or coaching professional baseball.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 09:21 PM) Well that's your opinion and you're more than entitled to it. My opinion is the players have stopped performing well. The same players who were performing better earlier in the year. Last I checked, the game is played in between the lines and to me, that's where most of the credit/blame lies. I agree you blame the players, but this is the team Ozzie wanted, and the team Kenny assembled. If its not good enough, and they still have the edge for a playoff spot, then someone's opinion on what is good enough to win is wrong isn't it? I really don't see anyone on the roster seriously underperforming from what could be expected. Personally, I really doubt either one of them is in any way, shape or form in trouble even if the Sox lost all their remaining games. I do think if the Sox fail to reach the post season, each of them should be shown the door, as I think if the Sox don't make the post season some lesser position will take a bullet. Maybe Walker. Maybe move Harold into another position and bring in a bench coach with managerial experience.

The thing that concerns me with this team is there appears to be a lack of fire right now. Think about it, a huge win last night, a sellout crowd, your biggest winner on the mound against the opponents #5 starter. I was at the game and if you looked at the White Sox players between innings, between pitches, there was no look of intensity. To a man, this team looked absolutely bored. Tomorrow doesn't look good, but maybe something crazy will happen. Maybe they will try a different approach against Santana, and hopefully, they'll try something different against Haffner next weekend.

Less partying maybe. If he had problems with fluids before, why is he having problems with lack of fluids against Cleveland on Sept. 20th?

Lou Piniella is being bought out by Tampa. It is still unclear if he must sit out a year. He would look great in the 3rd base dugout of USCF.

QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:29 PM) I was in the club level for a Sox game in Baltimore (granted, different stadium, but still) and it was great. You didnt have to miss a minute of the action of you wanted some food I talked to someone who was in the club level in Baltimore and supposedly when the White Sox upgraded their club level , it was patterned after Baltimore's. Supposedly, they are almost identical.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) Was I the only one who thought DJ had absolutely no idea what he was talking about in the 9th inning last night? He kept saying that it was better to let Perralta hit a bullet off the wall, rather than walking him leading off the inning. Did DJ know it was a one run game? If it's a two run game, that's a whole different story. However, a walk in that situation is much better than a leadoff double. I saw some people saying that they would have rather seen Jenks give up a homer than a walk? I know there's a big sense of doom with this team now, but YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! I still vehemently disagree with Ozzie playing the infield back after the Rowand debacle. Oh well, we won....but DJ still has me shaking my head. DJ's stupid sometimes, and when he made that comment that was one of the times, although I must admit he is a far better broadcaster now than he ever was, which really isn't saying much. I actually agreed with Ozzie playing the infield back, although the corners appeared to be in at least halfway. The infield in increases the chances of a hit, a hit that would have given Cleveland the lead. If there was no runner on second he would have had everyone up.

I have season tickets in the club level. I like it for several reasons. You can go to the bathroom and not miss a pitch. A rain delay can be spent watching a plasma tv in air conditioning or heat, whatever is necessary. There aren't as many people getting up during a key pitch and getting in your way going to get their 5th order of nachos. The view is great as well. Wait service is nice, but if you're on a budget be careful.

QUOTE(Clarkdog @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 03:03 PM) Lest anyone forget this team has won 90 games. Only Steinbrenner would fire someone with that type of success - a likley because they failed to get the 27th WS ring. Cashman - probably gone. KW - no way in hell. If a collapse occurs you simply can't replace the GM immediately. KW had a plan. Bring in a new GM and you'll get a new plan. To put that plan into effect and begin to see results will take at least three seasons. The White Sox will not have that long to kiss and make up with an already dwindling and infuriated fan base. So who pays for a collapse? Reinsdorf and the ownership. Now I noted in another post how the White Sox organization has never had the mindset of a winner. But if this collapse happens (I still think it won't) then they will need to take a crash course or get out of the business completely. A collapse will bring about a fifth season of underachieving capped by the greatest exhibition of underachieving in the history of baseball. If they miss in 2005, then the ownership needs to look at 2006 and beyond as an investment in the future of the franchise. They will need to open up wallets and pay to bring in and develop players to win a World Series regardless of how the bottom line may project out to the end of the season. The fan base held up their end of the bargain in 2005 - they should reach 2.3 million fans come the end of the season. Best attendance figures since 1993. How were we rewarded in '93? With a strike whose primary champion was Jerry Reinsdorf. The fans will have NO goodwill left for this ownership group if the Sox fail to make the postseason in 2005. Reinsdorf and the ownership will have to make good to us. Whatever it takes to fill the holes in the 2005 team that will bring victory in 2006. Signing Konerko to an extension, bringing in bullpen reinforcements, buildling bench depth, aquiring Manny Ramirez, etc. They will have to do this until they either win the World Series or are forced to sell because they can no longer afford it. To me - it is that serious for them. I doubt they see it that way, but if they "die trying" in 2005 and then trot the same club without seeking to significantly improve it in the offseason - it spells doom for attendance in 2006. A White Sox GM got fired in 1990 after his team won a very surprising 94 games. He was GM for 4 seasons. His final season he had each of his #1 draft picks on the roster. I know, the Sox haven't had a pick in the top ten for xxx years. But to be GM 4 years and draft McDowell, Ventura, Thomas and Fernandez back to back to back to back not to mention getting Ray Durham in round 5, acquiring Lance Johnson for Jose DeLeon, getting Roberto Hernandez for nothing. Trading Baines for Fletcher Sosa and Alvarez. ...So firing KW after winning a lot of games wouldn't be a total shocker. But as fathom says, if Ozzie is still in the dugout running the pitching staff the same way as he has this season it won't matter who the GM is. One big difference between 1990 and now is JR apparently likes KW. He couldn't stand Larry Himes.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) Success is not measured by the number of changes a GM makes. Success is measure by the number of rings, playoff games won, playoff series' reached...Show me KW's mantle of success. Empty! 5 years... Exactly. For all those saying it wasn't KW's fault there was nothing of significance done at the deadline because the price was too high, KW's options were to overpay and improve the team's chances, or acquire Geoff Blum and hope the Sox got real lucky. Its beginning to look like he made the wrong decision. I'm sick of waiting till next year, JR should be too. If the collapse occurs and the Sox miss the playoffs, KW and OG should be sent packing. They won't obviously, but if this season turns into failure, it won't bode well on the White Sox immediate future. Also FWIW,KW has been given the luxury of the highest payroll in the division, so money isn't an excuse

The Sox have dropped their last 5 home games and have been pretty brutal at home the last month and a half. Hopefully they can turn it around tonight.

The Sox play much better in front of a smaller audience. We really would be doing them a favor if we stayed away.

Next time Ozzie starts running out to the mound every batter to get a lefty/lefty or righty/right match-up, you may want to look at the stats of the 5 pitchers he does this for most often: Politte .159 against LH .175 against RH Jenks .089 against LH .273 against RH Cotts .215 against LH .127 against RH Marte .256 against LH .235 against RH Vizcaino .311 against LH .235 against RH Except for Vizcaino all the other guys actually have more success against the guys they are being lifted for than the guys they are going in the game to retire.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 07:03 AM) I still question why Cotts is never used for more than 2 batters. He could have come out for another inning and faced Haffner instead of Marte. Ozzie doesn't want to use Cotts against RH batters despite the fact that when he let him face righties they are 13-102 with 1 homerun. That's a .127 average. So because of his reluctance to have him face his second right handed hitter in a row, he got a righty out who was a switch hitter, he has Vizcaino come in for 1 batter and then throws "Everyday" Marte to the wolves with very predicable results. He is a horrible manager. One of the worst in-game managers of all-time. Terry Bevington was no worse. Ozzie was probably pretty good outside the game. He appeared to have the player's respect for the most part, but a collapse like this if it does become complete, would be very hard for him to overcome. I am not a big fan of KW, and think if the Sox do choke this away he should be put to pasture as well, but if Ozzie doesn't get canned no one else deserves to. They need to get a bench coach will experience who could teach Ozzie how to run a pitching staff, and explain to him players who don't know how to bunt shouldn't be asked to bunt. I hope they can turn this around, but if they don't my dream scenerio would have JR totally cleaning house. This team needs a new thought process IMO.

A great point was made about Dye attempting a bunt when he really has no chance to get a bunt down. How many times have we seen White Sox players attempt bunts who have absolutely no chance of ever succeeding since Ozzie took over. And his biggest apologist, the guy who can't stop taking swipes at a class act in Jerry Manuel, always spouts off a good manager doesn't ask a player to do something he isn't capable of doing. Hey Hawk, are you watching the same games as us?

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Sep 19, 2005 -> 11:00 PM) Politte, Cotts..........they've been getting it done all season, why the f*** should they be allowed to pitch in a pressure situation?!?! Think if Politte and Cotts were hispanic they'd be in there with it all on the line? Its happening again. Politte warmed up when Jenks was in the game. Viz was in for 1 hitter I believe. Maybe he's had more success at getting him out than Politte, although I really doubt Ozzie would do that much research, or have any knowledge of the facts. Also maybe Politte is hurting.

I'll be at the rest of this season's home games, and I am not going to boo anymore. I'm going to gag. Just like the Sox.

QUOTE(56789 @ Sep 19, 2005 -> 10:56 PM) So im at the game tonight and right before Jenks came in Ronny Woo Woo walked down the section next to us (143-144) in all out cubs gear wooing. He sat down in the 2nd row and then Jenks came in and everyone stood up and went crazy, but when it settled down he was gone. What the f*** is this guy doing at a sox game. He's there a lot, and if he is sitting in season ticketholder seats, whoever is the proud owner of those, should have their ticket priviliges revolked.

Ozzie is an idiot. How does a guy go from being kicked off the team to entering every game? What does he have against Cotts facing right handed hitters? Has he bothered to check the numbers? Ozzie was in over his head when he got the job and the way he handles the pitching staff proves it. They are going to win 90 something games this year and they just gave him an ill advised extension, so he won't get waxed. What they need to do, besides telling him its really a good idea to have guys who can hit up and down the line-up, especially in the AL, is privately push out Harold Baines. There has been rumors he really doesn't like the bench coach position, make it good for him to do something else, and bring in a guy like Jim Leyland, who probably won't be available, but might, or another older successful former manager who maybe can teach Ozzie how to manage a pitching staff. As long as things remain status quo in that area, so will the White Sox World Series appearances. Disgusting today.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Sep 19, 2005 -> 04:33 PM) Durazo or giles are the only two real options and i do not even consider giles an option. I see him going to the braves pretty easily to unite with his little brother. They will have the money since they will not be resigning furcal ( very good chance). Looks like they may have to trade for one.