Dick Allen

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 16, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) It's to a point where his CS are hurting us more than the SBs are helping us. Eventually, just let Scott get on base and use his speed not in stealing bases, but in getting from first to third on a single, putting on a hit-and-run, or scoring on a gapper. I'm growing tired of all the outs made on the basepaths... He's 4 out of his last 12 with a couple of pick offs. Its time for a stop sign.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Sep 16, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) we're getting 2 hit by a rookie They were 2 hit by a KC pitcher with an ERA over seven last homestand.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 16, 2005 -> 07:34 PM) It might be nice if our hitters would take a pitch and make this kid work. Arow, Uribe and others are swinging at the first pitch. There was an inning earlier where it was 2 pitches and 2 outs. Its an undisciplined offensive team. The manager was the same way when he played.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Sep 16, 2005 -> 07:32 PM) Yes it does. Not if he going back to first. There are between 5 and 10 of those. 8 is pretty close if not exact.

Why do they continue to have Pods run into outs? Either he is hurt or has lost it. Its an upset if he steals anymore. Give up straight stealing him, its giving away outs, something the White Sox cannot afford to do.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 16, 2005 -> 03:40 PM) Marte supposedly in uniform and in Minnesota. According to George Offerman But Bruce Levine said he would never pitch for the White Sox again.

Its funny how when BP has something positive about the Sox its taken as gospel and when they have something negative they are full of s***.

Ozzie himself said it many times, this was the team he wanted. Preseason low expectations by the likes of someone like Steve Phillips don't get Ozzie or Kenny off the hook. If this team collapses, and chances are they are still going to be in the playoffs, Ozzie and Kenny have failed. Ozzie for the second year, Kenny for the fifth. If the collapse becomes complete, someone has to be held accountable.

When a team has a lead of 15 games in late July, it is not a successful season if they don't make the playoffs, no matter where experts predicted they would finish before the season started. The season, no matter how many wins they wound up with, would have to be considered a failure of epic proportions. The Sox still control their own destiny, but playing like they have been playing will not get it done.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 16, 2005 -> 02:36 AM) The shortness of memory on this thread is staggering to me. In case we have forgotten, this manager has coached a team that most people picked for 3rd of 4th in the ALC to first place, and most likely, the playoffs. Also, this GM managed to put together a squad of people who, on a per dollar basis, have outperformed most or all of baseball. For those who wanted a big bat so desperately, let's remember that 1. there weren't many available, and 2. we cannot sell the farm for one OK hitter (which was all there was out there for the taking). KW picked up Blum to spell the infield here and there, not to start. He's just find in that role. Ozzie has some issues with figuring out pitchers, and he often abrasive. But he set the tone for a great season in that clubhouse. They are obviously not happy right now, but let's see how that finishes up. Either way, he got them in the position to even HAVE this discussion. Fire them? Not in a million years KW deserves GM of the year, period. Oz deserves manager of the year IF we win the division. He at least deserves some kudos for his (and the team's) vast improvement over last year if not. Now get off it, and let's start being real Sox fans! Considering Cleveland has a $41 million payroll and the Sox is $75 million, shouldn't Eric Wedge be the favorite for Manager of the Year anyway. And if Cleveland does pass the Sox, how could KW be the executive of the year?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 06:05 PM) The top 5 in "Innings pitched by the starting pitchers" 1. St. Louis 2. Sox 3. Minnesota 4. Houston 5. LA Angels. The bottom 5 in "Innings pitched by the relief pitchers, whoever they are": 1. St. Louis 2. Sox 3. NY Mets 4. Houston 5. Boston Considering the Sox have only used 6 starters this season, the starting pitchers innings is staggering.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 05:07 PM) So you rather have Freddy keep saying he's healthy and get shalacked instead of saying the truth? Rest him and hope you make the playoffs. If he says he's healthy and he's not, what's the difference between that and Marte other than Freddy drinks beers with Ozzie? Its time to step up, not look for reasons to bail. If he's hurt its not that bad right now. His concentration is lacking however. The curious thing to me is Ozzie said he talked to him, but now needs Cooper to talk to him. Either Ozzie doesn't trust what Freddy told him or he didn't answer his questions.

That one blurb in the notes that the Royals had lost 158 out of the last 159 games they trailed in the ninth inning throws some more salt in the wound of last night's loss.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:35 PM) Keep Ozzie, lose Joey Cora. WTF is up with that guy lately? Carl gets a late sign and overruns third. AJ gets waved home and is thrown out easily after a double clutch by the second baseman. Not even close. He held up a guy either last night or the night before after someone was thrown out, that there may not even have been a play on. He's made a couple of costly decisions, and its obviously weighing on his mind right now.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:32 PM) Not sure I agree about Ozzie resigning. Unfortunately, he is here for another year. But taking off to FL and leaving behind the problem reaks of a Michael Moore conspiracy. Farenhiet 13 anyone? Yeah I don't think its likely, but its far greater a possibility than he being handed a pink slip.The one thing is, if the Sox don't make the playoffs, someone has to and someone will be held accountable, and it isn't going to be Damaso Marte.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:06 PM) Who was the person on here who thought it was a terrible move by the Sox? I remember there was someone who was all over the move when it happened? No, it wasn't me. I really want to know who said it. I thought it was horrible. He actually has done far better than I thought he would.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) If we don't win the division this season...I don't know if Ozzie should be fired...but Ozzie should resign. I was thinking about that. I think the chances of OG resigning are far greater than him getting fired. That day trip to Miami may be a sign of a crack in the armour. There was that issue with his heart in spring training which turned out not to be serious, but it would make you think. He's stated several times he doesn't need the money, maybe he may just decide he doesn't need the headaches that go with managing a major league team.

Ozzie says he trusts his players. He said he talked to Garcia and is going to have Cooper talk to Garcia. If he talked to him and said he was hurt or tired, why would Cooper have to talk to him? Seems goofy to me. Freddy is supposed to be a big game pitcher, and now he may be opting out of a start at the most critical part of this season? Maybe there's room on Marte's plane for him. I think this team is in freefall, even Ozzie's buddies are starting to bail.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Almost everyone who came talking about trades wanted either BMac or Jenks. Would you have given up either of them? You know this how?

QUOTE(Wanne @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:42 PM) How the hell can you blame Ozzie for Carl being a complete dips*** on the bases and taking us out of a possible few more runs. 3 OUTS ON THE BASES EARLY ON! I'm tellin ya...I don't give a s*** if Ozzie doesn't thing goin off would help....but it time...you've got nothing to lose. Well then how can you give Ozzie credit when the team wins?

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) It's not? These guys have thrown so many pitches all year because of Ozzie's long hook, who knows if they would have had more left in the tank for the stretch run. While Ozzie has gone out of his way to rest a lot of guys like Iguchi, he's been using his starting pitchers an awful lot in regards to number of pitches. However, all the blame for this should not be on Ozzie. This is a full organizational collapse. BTW, we're 1-6 since the players b****ed about attendance. You're right. KW needs to get some blame here as well. This team has been average at best the last 2 1/2 months this season. He did nothing but bring in Geoff Blum to improve the talent base. Players moved and players were available who could have helped this team. KW listened too much to Ozzie and too much to others in the organization who preached the chemistry BS. For the love of God, the White Sox aren't going to get as many fortunate bounces and breaks as they got the first 3 months of the season, probably for a long time. They are going to have to raise the talent level of their team if they want to be anything but average in the coming seasons.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:32 PM) I'll overreact for ya. If we miss the post season, the future of the franchise is in trouble. You don't really believe THIS Sox team will repeat next year do you? You thought there couldn't be a bigger choke than the Cubs a few years ago? You think people don't come to the park now?....and we've been in 1st all year long!! You think we play second fiddle to the Cubs now? You think we get no love from the local, not to mention the national media now? Stock up on booze and painkillers, it's gonna be a wild two and half weeks. I agree with you 100%. If they don't make the playoffs, it will set this franchise back a few years.

If they don't make the playoffs, there is no way he should be brought back. Same with KW. That said, there is no way either will canned this offseason, even if the Sox don't play in the playoffs.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:10 PM) Pods is so overrated, it's not even funny. Oh well, keep up hope. The season's not over. You can say that again. A case can be made that his dissapointing year last year was more productive than this one. He is one of the least productive .290 hitters you will ever see. As soon as he gets to the point where he can't steal at least 30 bases a season, and judging by the last couple of months that time isn't far off, he will be selling insurance. He's signed through next season, so he's got another year to show somebody he's worth a roster spot, but I'm with you, I would love for some team to think they have to have him and give KW a call.

When the collapse becomes complete and the season is over, watch how Ozzie deflects any of the blame from himself or his coaching staff.