Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:08 PM) Do you really think the Yankees are going to let $17M cost then Manny Machado? If you keep topping them, it’s almost a certainty they’ll match each & every time. Trying to outbid them will just raise the overall price. We just have to be prepared to match whatever number the Yankees settle at and that becomes a helluva lot easier if we’re his previous team & he enjoyed his time playing with us. Otherwise he may not give us that opportunity. I have no idea how the cost will be to acquire Machado, but the idea doesn’t make any sense if package required is significant and it destroys our rebuilding effort if he doesn’t resign. I’m giving Hahn the benefit of the doubt for now as I think he only does a deal if it’s on his terms and the price is moderate. If he gives up something crazy I’ll be just as pissed as you. The thing is, with the huge contracts, history suggests that not all the offers will be equal, like you seem to be banking on. Texas blew everyone out of the water for ARod. The Angels shocked the world for Pujols, and Seattle offered $70 million more than the Yankees for Cano.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:08 PM) Do you really think the Yankees are going to let $17M cost then Manny Machado? If you keep topping them, it’s almost a certainty they’ll match each & every time. Trying to outbid them will just raise the overall price. We just have to be prepared to match whatever number the Yankees settle at and that becomes a helluva lot easier if we’re his previous team & he enjoyed his time playing with us. Otherwise he may not give us that opportunity. I have no idea how the cost will be to acquire Machado, but the idea doesn’t make any sense if package required is significant and it destroys our rebuilding effort if he doesn’t resign. I’m giving Hahn the benefit of the doubt for now as I think he only does a deal if it’s on his terms and the price is moderate. If he gives up something crazy I’ll be just as pissed as you. To the Yankees, if they don't get under the luxury tax, it's a lot more than that.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:05 PM) Who is saying get him for a discount? Most on here are talking about drastically overpaying. The post I was responding to said, and I agree,, the White Sox know they won't be the high bidders.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:00 PM) The White Sox know that they have zero chance at winning a bidding war for Manny Machado on the open market. No one else will say it, but I will. Sure they will be "competitive", and "make an impressive" offer, and maybe even be the 2nd highest bidder. They will even give the "bigger contract offered in the history of the franchise". But they won't be the top bidder, and they know it. This is a calculated gamble that if they get Machado here for a season, maybe they won't have to be the highest bidder anymore, much like they have seen with countless other players who came back to the White Sox for less money over the years. It is absolutely a gamble, but one the Sox seem to feel they have to make to have a chance at bringing one of the big boys to the White Sox. The fact we have to go back something like 25 years to talk about the last time the Sox signed a contract of this magnitude isn't lost on this franchise, and their actions now flat out tell me that they know they won't be offering the biggest deal... otherwise they wouldn't be looking at sending guys out to bring Machado here for a year early. Go back and forth about whether it is worth it or not, and how dumb it is to do this a year early, but Rick Hahn is 100% tipping the White Sox view of themselves on the free agent market by being a leading offer for Manny Machado. Despite what people hope, the White Sox actions here are telling completely different. Every White Sox player that reached free agency and came back for less, had a far longer history with the team than one season, and they weren't in the position Machado is in where he is going to sign perhaps the second or third highest contract in the history of the game. He will have players association pressure to sign the biggest contract he can.To even think the White Sox can get a discount is foolish, certainly not worth all the cost of acquiring him now.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:48 PM) Maybe they get the feeling that they would need to offer vastly more money than New York. however, if he is comfortable here the price may not be quite so high. The White sox will always have a middle of the road payroll. If they can save 5-10 million per year, that would allow them to build a better team around him. I have no idea if this is what they are thinking but it makes sense. anything to get an advantage to bring him to the Sox instead of the Yankees. with the Yankees getting a gift in Stanton maybe they won't break the bank for Machado. What is this based on? They were going to talk extension with Samardzija, didn't go far. Bartolo Colon took more money. Freddy Garcia stay d, but he knew Ozzie well and didn't get to free agency. It is a pipe dream to think it will make a difference. Let some other team pay him $17 million in 2018, and watch how interested he will be if you take your same offer which is as good as any other team's, and add the $17 million you would have paid him in 2018 to the $30 million or so you offer to pay him in 2019. Added bonus, you save the prospects you would have sent to Baltimore.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:48 PM) Not if they can save it to put a better team around him. If they trade for him, they will spend it on his services for a non competitive season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:47 PM) No one is suggesting it should be discounted. It’s likely that he will get a range of offers that are generally in the same ballpark. I suspect he will then choose from those teams based on other factors. We need to be competitive in those other factors as well. Again, if the White So. Are going to be in the same range, why not just offer him an additional $17 million in year 1 to that offerthe money you would have paid him in 2018 to still lose and hurt your draft position.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:45 PM) This is absolutely ludicrous. Wouldn't an additional $17 million to his offer be better? Using the trade for him way, you have to pay him at least $17 million more than anyone else to be equal to their bid, not including the value of the package you trade for him, which, from what I can tell, you don't think needs to be very significant, which is ridiculous.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) Do you know how competitive this will be? Where have you folks been living where you think the Sox are going to compete with some of the premier teams in the league which will also be making significant offers? The Sox will need something besides money to differentiate themselves from organizations that have won more recently or other big market teams. It’s not as simple as just relying on money, unless of course you are willing to just blow everyone out of the water, which to be honest, might be more damaging to the organization than moving a few pieces to acquire him now. They need to have the most money at their disposal. Paying him $17 million for a useless season accomplishes nothing. And if they aren't prepared to be the high bidder, any talk of acquiring him should stop. This will be an historic contract. It isn't going to be discounted. These guys have egos, and Machado will have more money than he ever needs at a fraction of what he will be paid. He wants his name up there.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:25 PM) I don't understand why we are making this idiotic decision. Just offer Machado the most amount of money next offseason. And the ironic thing is, if they don't trade for him, they won't have to pay him in 2018 leaving them more money in the bank for the offer after the season, not to mention the prospect cost. I have the feeling if Rick Hahn said he got the idea from KW, at least a couple of people who thinks this makes sense would change their minds.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) If they give up those three guys it’s a terrible trade IMO. Hansen should not be a part of these discussions. And for the millionth time, it’s not just about the “culture” as you conveniently call it to mock the idea. It’s about him forming a bond with the players & coaches and generally becoming comfortable with the organization. Have you ever formed bonds with coworkers? Have you ever enjoyed working at a certain company? It’s amazing to me how foreign of a concept this is to you. No doubt money talks, but all along we have said over & over again the money has to be there too or this is all for naught. And how does your idea of using projected surplus value as part of our bid work exactly? Surplus value is all based on opportunity cost of NOT having to pay market rate for production. How are you turning these three prospects into actual cash flow? And what happens if they bust? If it is about forming bonds, and not all about money, how come he isn't signing with Baltimore? The other fact is, many , most of the bonds he will form with the 2018 White Sox will be short lived as turnover is very common in the game especially with rebuilding teams.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) If they give up those three guys it’s a terrible trade IMO. Hansen should not be a part of these discussions. And for the millionth time, it’s not just about the “culture” as you conveniently call it to mock the idea. It’s about him forming a bond with the players & coaches and generally becoming comfortable with the organization. Have you ever formed bonds with coworkers? Have you ever enjoyed working at a certain company? It’s amazing to me how foreign of a concept this is to you. No doubt money talks, but all along we have said over & over again the money has to be there too or this is all for naught. And how does your idea of using projected surplus value as part of our bid work exactly? Surplus value is all based on opportunity cost of NOT having to pay market rate for production. How are you turning these three prospects into actual cash flow? And what happens if they bust? If it is about forming bonds, and not all about money, how come he isn't signing with Baltimore

This is funny. MAnny Machado is one of the best players in baseball, and potentially could be the best, yet many of us, me included, are hoping Hahn does not trade for him.

Greg Olsen is a HOFer IMO. That was a horrible trade.

I read a blog where the guy said a fair price would be Hansen, Fulmer, and Burger. To me, that seems about right. A top 100, a guy who struggled, and a relative unknown. What type of monetary value would you put on that package? If the Dodgers had the Sox farm system, would you take those 3 to take all of Matt Kemp's money? If so, the price to acquire Machado to get him to love the culture, with his salary, would approach $60 million. Would just outbidding everyone by $60 million work better, and keep the prospects? I

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:33 PM) I don't like Matthews' style. Very very loud, speaks over people, is rude when they disagree and comes across as screeching voice. If he is guilty of this kinda stuff, fire him now. He's over 70. Retirement time. Yet you listen to Rush Limbaugh.

The problem you have here is not only Machado one of the best players in the game, he is also a franchise icon. A trade that basically looks like a salary dump isn't happening which is why the White Sox interest is curious and ridiculous.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 07:03 AM) MLBTR says they want to. Why wouldn't they want to clear $21m each of next 2 years? It would be interesting to see what kind of prospects they would be willing to sell for $42 million. I would imagine them being the kind you wouldn't want to buy for that amount.

Girardi mentioned the box after the game that night. Maybe he got some legal advice to run with it.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 06:06 PM) Remember, money is everything in life. If we offer even a dollar more than the competition he’s as good as ours. It’s foolproof! Yet your way actually costs more in money and prospects just to make the same offer as other teams.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 04:49 PM) There shouldn't be a danger on the field that is easily fixed. Everyone is made aware of the brick wall before each series. Unless the White sox inform each team that there is a dangerous electrical box that the stadium authority decided not to cover in this spot, the authority should be held liable. That is an unnecessary danger. All they need to do is enclose it in a pad. Would surprise me if it is normally padded but a worker forgot to replace it after having to use it. Isn't it under padding? I am pretty sure his foot got tangled with the outlet, not his knee. I would imagine a pad might have caused the same thing. Now I see it. It is in between the padded rail and padded wall. I still think there is danger by all walls whether they are padded or not. I don't think if they had a pad on that thing it would guarantee he wouldn't have been injured. NFL players wear helmets and they get concussions all the time.

Everyone is in agreement the Sox will have to offer a similar contract to the contracts offered even if they traded for him and he loved the culture. How about this. The Sox would have to pay him about $17 million in 2018 to show them how nice they are. Save that money, put it in the bank or buy some bitcoin futures with it, next offseason offer him the same contract as the other teams, yet add a $17 million bonus to year one. You save prospects, and money as you will make some interest, and you have an offer that can't be refused. Cano took the most money, but even if the Sox offered the same next offseason, if they traded for him, they ultimately would have paid much more. His salary during a rebuilding season, and prospects. Just offer him more money than anyone else, in a way he can't say no.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 03:27 PM) This is really bad news for the Sox if 2019 is circled on Rick's calendar. The less competition we face in the FA market the better....LA is a place a lot of players would love to go. They just need to trade for the free agents they want to sign, show them the culture, and they are hooked.

Interesting. Whatever happens may force the Cubs to get rid of their ivy, and pad the bricks. There are exposed bricks in a lot of parks in the infield especially behind the plate to give an old time look. It is unfortunate what happened. I really wish he didn't sue, although it does suggest his rehab isn't going so well. Also, they may have to do something about the dugouts. You get blasted in the face sitting in the stands by a foule ball, and most courts throw those suits out. A freak injury like this shouldn't be worth big bucks. He is going to the stands, he knows there is danger.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) Some of you may find this interesting: The point that I found most interesting is this; Since Machado wants to ultimately end up on the Yankees, why wouldn't Baltimore try to at least remove a good prospect, or 2, from New York's future roster? Besides NY based loudmouths, who says Machado wants to be a Yankee? And what are the loudmouths sources?